England Training Squad - Now Featuring Both New and Old Messiahs

[Oakboy]

I wonder what the fitness/availability is as a percentage for any given game. At a guess it would average out at about 60 - 70%. Maybe, working on the basis of, say, 6 players being missing from the first choice 23 is the way to plan. Sod's Law might mean multiple absences for a position. Even building in a degree of versatility positionally, that means at least three realistic options for every shirt. It also calls into question squad numbers.

All that comes before effective cohesion - or lack of it.

[Oakboy]

Yep. A 12/13 combo of Farrell and Marchant looks like the obvious combination. Which is why Eddie probably won’t go for it …

Surely Marchant has built up some credit? He’s been good or very good whenever he’s had a chance and is quite obviously the form 13 as well. It would be a massive injustice not to pick him.

Can't disagree (even if I really dislike Farrell at 12). Does that remove Farrell from back-up FH or will Ford and Smith both go?

[Puja]

Yep. A 12/13 combo of Farrell and Marchant looks like the obvious combination. Which is why Eddie probably won’t go for it …

Surely Marchant has built up some credit? He’s been good or very good whenever he’s had a chance and is quite obviously the form 13 as well. It would be a massive injustice not to pick him.

Can't disagree (even if I really dislike Farrell at 12). Does that remove Farrell from back-up FH or will Ford and Smith both go?

Much as I love Ford and think he's still the best 10 for England, there's no point having him in the 22 shirt if we can avoid it. Neither he or Smith play any other position, so it's either a wasted impact bench spot or a massive disruption in taking the fly-half off. If we're committing to Smith, then Sale should get the use of Ford right up until the pre-RWC camp.

Puja

[Banyans]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie has fixed Farrell as a key component in this England team in the lead up to the world Cup.

Not sure if anyone has seen the squidge YouTube video where he breaks down England's style during the last few years and more specifically the last six nations, it's quite an interesting watch and does highlight Farrells role when fit.

[Mikey Brown]

Yes RE: Marchant, but Eddie always knows better.

I’d like to see Smith, Farrell, Marchant given at least a couple of games together, just please with a little more of something outside.

(Yes I know other things need to happen up front bla bla bla. It doesn’t need saying)

[Scrumhead]

Until now, I didn’t really think we lacked depth at 13, but with Slade and Tuilagi out, it’s surprisingly sparse.

Marchant is the obvious choice and perhaps it isn’t a terrible idea to look at Freeman.

Beyond that we’re either looking at Daly (no thanks), Dingwall, a premature call up for Will Joseph or an unlikely recall for Jonathan or Lozowski.

I actually rate Dingwall highly and I think he could be a good test 13. Unfortunately for him, he just isn’t the type of 13 we need, particularly if we’ve got Farrell at 12. Dingwall is very good defensively and has a good all round skill set, but he doesn’t have any one of an obvious strike running, power or distribution threat that he’d need to work well in our midfield.

[Banquo]

Until now, I didn’t really think we lacked depth at 13, but with Slade and Tuilagi out, it’s surprisingly sparse.

Marchant is the obvious choice and perhaps it isn’t a terrible idea to look at Freeman.

Beyond that we’re either looking at Daly (no thanks), Dingwall, a premature call up for Will Joseph or an unlikely recall for Jonathan or Lozowski.

I actually rate Dingwall highly and I think he could be a good test 13. Unfortunately for him, he just isn’t the type of 13 we need, particularly if we’ve got Farrell at 12. Dingwall is very good defensively and has a good all round skill set, but he doesn’t have any one of an obvious strike running, power or distribution threat that he’d need to work well in our midfield.

He’d do a good job at 12 as well. Alas…

[Banquo]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie has fixed Farrell as a key component in this England team in the lead up to the world Cup.

Not sure if anyone has seen the squidge YouTube video where he breaks down England's style during the last few years and more specifically the last six nations, it's quite an interesting watch and does highlight Farrells role when fit.

well yes, but if that's the answer, suspect the wrong question is being asked.

[Danno]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie has fixed Farrell as a key component in this England team in the lead up to the world Cup.

Not sure if anyone has seen the squidge YouTube video where he breaks down England's style during the last few years and more specifically the last six nations, it's quite an interesting watch and does highlight Farrells role when fit.

well yes, but if that's the answer, suspect the wrong question is being asked.

Yes. But it's the only question being posed. He's playing unless he injured, and he's a (an annoyingly) durable bastard

[Mr Mwenda]

So Tuilagi has again been broken on club duty.

[Banyans]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie has fixed Farrell as a key component in this England team in the lead up to the world Cup.

Not sure if anyone has seen the squidge YouTube video where he breaks down England's style during the last few years and more specifically the last six nations, it's quite an interesting watch and does highlight Farrells role when fit.

well yes, but if that's the answer, suspect the wrong question is being asked.

While I dislike the continued selection of Farrell, no one has really put their hands up and remembering back to the dark days post greenwood I would have bit your hand off for a 2nd receiver like Farrell even with his limitations. I do wish 12T had provided the answer but that didn't work out. Not to mention that England with Ford and Farrell had their moments.

[Banyans]

So Tuilagi has again been broken on club duty.

Poor guy.

[Banquo]

It seems fairly clear that Eddie has fixed Farrell as a key component in this England team in the lead up to the world Cup.

Not sure if anyone has seen the squidge YouTube video where he breaks down England's style during the last few years and more specifically the last six nations, it's quite an interesting watch and does highlight Farrells role when fit.

well yes, but if that's the answer, suspect the wrong question is being asked.

While I dislike the continued selection of Farrell, no one has really put their hands up and remembering back to the dark days post greenwood I would have bit your hand off for a 2nd receiver like Farrell even with his limitations. I do wish 12T had provided the answer but that didn't work out. Not to mention that England with Ford and Farrell had their moments.

No one really gets a chance to put their hands up given that faz is either playing 12 or the 12 is outside him.....but it is true that there has been a lack of 12's, especially given the obsession with having a secondary receiver at 12 in the national side. Many top sides make do with a couple of runners with decent all round skills in midfield. The one thing Smith needs outside him is a unit- but again, who, I suppose; someone like Dingwall would at least keep the defences honest. My point though, is really that even if someone was tearing up trees, Eddie would still shoehorn Faz in- because the question being asked seems to be more about attitude and workrate than top level defence breaking (and defending) skills.

[Oakboy]

The question has been asked before often enough but never answered. If Jones had not kept dreaming of a constantly fit Tuilagi and if he had simply picked the best of Ford/Farrell (and latterly Smith) at FH, would he have found a decent centre partnership (and a 12 in particular)?

Yes, it's hard to find a 12 starting from here. However, sticking doggedly to fixed ideas left no scope for development.

[Mikey Brown]

I think it’s universally agreed on here we’d have liked to find better options, but he did try Francis, Lozowski, and Slade there at times. Te’o looked a good option for a minute but didn’t work out. Devoto could never stay fit.

Excluding Ford from the team wouldn’t have conjured up any better centre options. I’d like to have seen Slade developed as a 12 but it never seemed likely for Exeter to play him there.

[Banquo]

I think it’s universally agreed on here we’d have liked to find better options, but he did try Francis, Lozowski, and Slade there at times. Te’o looked a good option for a minute but didn’t work out. Devoto could never stay fit.

Excluding Ford from the team wouldn’t have conjured up any better centre options. I’d like to have seen Slade developed as a 12 but it never seemed likely for Exeter to play him there.

Lozowski has a 100% winning record for England funnily enough. He's not been looked at since 2018. Slade I think has been ok there (in this mandatory world of if it not Manu at 12, then it has to be a passer/Faz) and its a shame he's crocked, in fact Francis wasn't too bad, but like Devoto has been injured more often than not. A younger Teo might be a good call outside Smith- he did get capped for the Lions after all.

I do think persisting with Ford plus a real centre might have paid dividends, notwithstanding our unrepeated unbeaten run. But as before, who

As above, if Faz is the answer...etc etc

[Raggs]

I think it’s universally agreed on here we’d have liked to find better options, but he did try Francis, Lozowski, and Slade there at times. Te’o looked a good option for a minute but didn’t work out. Devoto could never stay fit.

Excluding Ford from the team wouldn’t have conjured up any better centre options. I’d like to have seen Slade developed as a 12 but it never seemed likely for Exeter to play him there.

Lozowski has a 100% winning record for England funnily enough. He's not been looked at since 2018. Slade I think has been ok there (in this mandatory world of if it not Manu at 12, then it has to be a passer/Faz) and its a shame he's crocked, in fact Francis wasn't too bad, but like Devoto has been injured more often than not. A younger Teo might be a good call outside Smith- he did get capped for the Lions after all.

I do think persisting with Ford plus a real centre might have paid dividends, notwithstanding our unrepeated unbeaten run. But as before, who

As above, if Faz is the answer...etc etc

But he was part of the team that was losing to Japan at half time. And was subbed off at half time.

[Banyans]

Lozowski would have been perfect, until he joined Sarries and became a wing/outside centre predominantly... I blame Sarries for everything

[Raggs]

Lozowski would have been perfect, until he joined Sarries and became a wing/outside centre predominantly... I blame Sarries for everything

I was talking him up as a potential 12 when he was with Wasps. Always felt he wanted to run the ball a bit too much himself for 10, and he was able to put in big defensive hits the whole time.

[Banquo]

I think it’s universally agreed on here we’d have liked to find better options, but he did try Francis, Lozowski, and Slade there at times. Te’o looked a good option for a minute but didn’t work out. Devoto could never stay fit.

Excluding Ford from the team wouldn’t have conjured up any better centre options. I’d like to have seen Slade developed as a 12 but it never seemed likely for Exeter to play him there.

Lozowski has a 100% winning record for England funnily enough. He's not been looked at since 2018. Slade I think has been ok there (in this mandatory world of if it not Manu at 12, then it has to be a passer/Faz) and its a shame he's crocked, in fact Francis wasn't too bad, but like Devoto has been injured more often than not. A younger Teo might be a good call outside Smith- he did get capped for the Lions after all.

I do think persisting with Ford plus a real centre might have paid dividends, notwithstanding our unrepeated unbeaten run. But as before, who

As above, if Faz is the answer...etc etc

But he was part of the team that was losing to Japan at half time. And was subbed off at half time.

And?

And to your later point, yes. He’s an excellent player who should have settled in one position.

[Banquo]

Lozowski would have been perfect, until he joined Sarries and became a wing/outside centre predominantly... I blame Sarries for everything

Well yes and no

[Mellsblue]

Never forget that we were going to win the World Cup until Burgess was subbed off.

[Banyans]

Never forget that we were going to win the World Cup until Burgess was subbed off.

I feel somehow it must be Sarries fault...

[Gloskarlos]

As pigs can now fly it seems, Singleton, May, Atkinson & Freddie Clarke have been called up for training from Glos. Think Val is a little hard done by here. No doubt they will all be sent home without further ado after they have held tackle bags or packed down out of position.

[Banquo]

As pigs can now fly it seems, Singleton, May, Atkinson & Freddie Clarke have been called up for training from Glos. Think Val is a little hard done by here. No doubt they will all be sent home without further ado after they have held tackle bags or packed down out of position.

Surprised Thorley hasn't had a call tbh. Freddie Clarke is a late bloomer for sure. Pretty meaningless tbh, given the obvious absentees, but Eddie will see yet more players up close
Tom Willis seen quietly crying in a corner with Brad Shields.

Forward: Biyi Alo (Wasps, uncapped), Alfie Barbeary (Wasps, uncapped), Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons), Callum Chick (Newcastle Falcons), Freddie Clarke (Gloucester, uncapped), Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Trevor Davison (Newcastle Falcons), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Will Goodrick-Clarke (London Irish, uncapped), Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors), Sam Jeffries (Bristol Bears, uncapped), George McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped), Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped), Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks), Patrick Schickerling (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped), Jack Singleton (Gloucester), Will Stuart (Bath), Sam Underhill (Bath), Jack Willis (Wasps).

Backs: Henry Arundell (London Irish, uncapped), Charlie Atkinson (Wasps, uncapped), Mark Atkinson (Gloucester), Orlando Bailey (Bath, uncapped), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath), Ollie Hassell-Collins (London Irish, uncapped), Will Joseph (London Irish, uncapped), Jonny May (Gloucester), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Paolo Odogwu (Wasps, uncapped), Max Ojomoh (Bath, uncapped), Tom Parton (London Irish, uncapped), Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons), Harry Randall (Bristol Bears), Dan Robson (Wasps).