RugbyRebels

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:08 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:55 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:47 pm

His appalling performance cost as many tries as Steward today. So…

I don't think Murley was appalling, he looked good in attack and he chased kicks well tackling man and ball. His mistakes might well cost him his place though. Once you could overlook.

Steward over committed and got stepped for one. He looked good in the first half, didn't feature much in the second half.

Both looked good when they got the ball in hand, we just didn't have enough of that during the game.

I’m not sure Sleightholme would have done any better TBH.

Based on? He's got 5 caps including the full 80 Vs South Africa in the Autumn.

I’m concerned about our second row, Itoje’s never been much of a carrier and on tonight’s performance ( as well as AIs ) I no longer think Martin’s is much of one either, despite his size. Imo you need at least one of your locks to have this capability especially if fielding a back row with no hard yard carriers itself.

On the forwards for me next week Willis starts with Earl off the bench. Happy enough with Curry x 2, CCS was a bit too keen off the bench. Genge looked a bit lost (like Sinckler did towards the end). Mario looked a bit lost as captain but I wonder how much of that was trying to follow coaches orders. I prefer Dan over Cowan-Dickie and Chessum looked more effective than Martin.

For the backs I was underwhelmed by Murley, we have other wingers (hard on the lad but his day will come). Lawrence looked better today than previous games. Slade was Slade and Randall is not the backup scrum half.

The biggest question is the oldest question. A general at fly half (Fin) or a magician (Marcus). I have no answer but personal preference is Fin. I do know we miss Furbank (a playmaker) at full back, Steward without his aerial supremacy is turgid. I don’t think Marcus at 15 is the answer. I was hoping Hodge would push on.

For the coaches, for the love of all that is holy, it’s just not working, time to move on wriggler and send Vesty the bat signal.

Shiny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:30 pm On the forwards for me next week Willis starts with Earl off the bench. Happy enough with Curry x 2, CCS was a bit too keen off the bench. Genge looked a bit lost (like Sinckler did towards the end). Mario looked a bit lost as captain but I wonder how much of that was trying to follow coaches orders. I prefer Dan over Cowan-Dickie and Chessum looked more effective than Martin.

For the backs I was underwhelmed by Murley, we have other wingers (hard on the lad but his day will come). Lawrence looked better today than previous games. Slade was Slade and Randall is not the backup scrum half.

The biggest question is the oldest question. A general at fly half (Fin) or a magician (Marcus). I have no answer but personal preference is Fin. I do know we miss Furbank (a playmaker) at full back, Steward without his aerial supremacy is turgid. I don’t think Marcus at 15 is the answer. I was hoping Hodge would push on.

For the coaches, for the love of all that is holy, it’s just not working, time to move on wriggler and send Vesty the bat signal.

Not sure going I to the game against France, with their forward power, with Dan and Chessum (much as I like them as players) will be a bit lightweight.

oldbackrow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:34 pm

Shiny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:30 pm On the forwards for me next week Willis starts with Earl off the bench. Happy enough with Curry x 2, CCS was a bit too keen off the bench. Genge looked a bit lost (like Sinckler did towards the end). Mario looked a bit lost as captain but I wonder how much of that was trying to follow coaches orders. I prefer Dan over Cowan-Dickie and Chessum looked more effective than Martin.

For the backs I was underwhelmed by Murley, we have other wingers (hard on the lad but his day will come). Lawrence looked better today than previous games. Slade was Slade and Randall is not the backup scrum half.

The biggest question is the oldest question. A general at fly half (Fin) or a magician (Marcus). I have no answer but personal preference is Fin. I do know we miss Furbank (a playmaker) at full back, Steward without his aerial supremacy is turgid. I don’t think Marcus at 15 is the answer. I was hoping Hodge would push on.

For the coaches, for the love of all that is holy, it’s just not working, time to move on wriggler and send Vesty the bat signal.

Not sure going I to the game against France, with their forward power, with Dan and Chessum (much as I like them as players) will be a bit lightweight.

That’s true but I would prefer action over treacle.

So I had hopes. Picking Murley was a sign, to me, that we were in fact going to keep the ball in hand more. Because Murley is excellent at coming looking for work, getting involved, linking play, and then finishing opportunities.

But instead, we played 15-20 minutes of rugby and then gave up again. Just like every other game under Borthers. So why pick Murley?

I think he's wonderful. He's a guy who looked totally meh when he came through at Quins, but he worked hard, he showed he had pace to go with tenacity, he added physicality, he added passing, and then he added tries.

But in this England team? I hate to say it, because I hate the idea...but unless you're a physical beast, there's no point.

With Borthwick in charge, England should just say screw it and pick Roebuck alongside Freeman and Steward, and the biggest centres, and be done with it, because he is an appalling HC.

Positives...

Theo Dan is a wonderful player, and should start.
I thought the Curry's were brilliant in tandem.
Laurence had his best game for England.
Willis added a lot off the bench.

That's it.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:38 pm Was it just me seeing a forward pass in the build up to the last Ireland try? It's behind the cut of the grass.. then passed long and is then in front of it, the hands even go forwards imo.

Murley's not had a great game defensively. Did well for England's late try though.

TMO hasn't been interested all game. Waste of a salary.

Murley looked good in attack. Just went to pieces under pressure when taking kicks in his own 22. The slightly dodgy tackle on Conan saved a try. He cost gave Ireland position for two though.

Murley may have inherited the traditional 'England player brainfarts', because those two in the 22 he didn't deal with were really dumb. Certainly not calling for him to be dropped or anything, I think he's got potential but I do hope it doesn't get to him. I have vague memories of Balshaw in 2009 or 2010 6 nations playing FB and seemingly falling apart across the tournament.

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:44 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:38 pm Was it just me seeing a forward pass in the build up to the last Ireland try? It's behind the cut of the grass.. then passed long and is then in front of it, the hands even go forwards imo.

Murley's not had a great game defensively. Did well for England's late try though.

TMO hasn't been interested all game. Waste of a salary.

Murley looked good in attack. Just went to pieces under pressure when taking kicks in his own 22. The slightly dodgy tackle on Conan saved a try. He cost gave Ireland position for two though.

Murley may have inherited the traditional 'England player brainfarts', because those two in the 22 he didn't deal with were really dumb. Certainly not calling for him to be dropped or anything, I think he's got potential but I do hope it doesn't get to him. I have vague memories of Balshaw in 2009 or 2010 6 nations playing FB and seemingly falling apart across the tournament.

Wing is a competitive area. I don't think it's a certainty he starts next week. Would be harsh but it's not going to be easy up against Dupont putting the kicks in with those French wingers pressuring.

Gods France are going to run us over, reverse up and then do it again

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:14 pm

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:44 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 6:43 pm

TMO hasn't been interested all game. Waste of a salary.

Murley looked good in attack. Just went to pieces under pressure when taking kicks in his own 22. The slightly dodgy tackle on Conan saved a try. He cost gave Ireland position for two though.

Murley may have inherited the traditional 'England player brainfarts', because those two in the 22 he didn't deal with were really dumb. Certainly not calling for him to be dropped or anything, I think he's got potential but I do hope it doesn't get to him. I have vague memories of Balshaw in 2009 or 2010 6 nations playing FB and seemingly falling apart across the tournament.

Wing is a competitive area. I don't think it's a certainty he starts next week. Would be harsh but it's not going to be easy up against Dupont putting the kicks in with those French wingers pressuring.

It's not as if he dropped kicks. He lost his composure and made stupid mistakes. They're two very different things. You don't drop him for that, necessarily, it's not a technical error like Steward consistently makes.

Danno wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:22 pm Gods France are going to run us over, reverse up and then do it again

They’ll probably merde on us on the way back.
It’ll be a merder.

Freeman at 15 with Murley and Sleightholme on the wings. Fuck it.

Adam_P wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:37 pm Freeman at 15 with Murley and Sleightholme on the wings. Fuck it.

Now we’re talking. I think 15 could be Freeman’s best position.

The Curry’s worked really well in tandom but I’m torn between keeping this partnership or picking a bigger unit like Hill or CCS as starting 6. I would definitely keep Ben Curry at 7 to start but no more Earl starting at 8 for me - he isn’t a player who’s going to give us that go forward to get over the gain line unless it’s a clear line break (which I actually do love to see! )

Has anybody mentioned Heyes’s shorts…… just asking?

The Currys are wonderful scrappers. Put them up against top quality back row opposition, though, and their overall presence is inadequate. One works at 7 with a bigger presence at 6 and a more substantial 8. No surprise, really.

Dump Earl. Pick one Curry at 7. Willis at 8. CCS/Chessum/Hill at 6. T'other Curry on the bench.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:24 pm The Currys are wonderful scrappers. Put them up against top quality back row opposition, though, and their overall presence is inadequate. One works at 7 with a bigger presence at 6 and a more substantial 8. No surprise, really.

Dump Earl. Pick one Curry at 7. Willis at 8. CCS/Chessum/Hill at 6. T'other Curry on the bench.

This. 100%

Further forward, still unconvinced by Martin.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:24 pm The Currys are wonderful scrappers. Put them up against top quality back row opposition, though, and their overall presence is inadequate.

They’ve played one match together and I thought they went well.
Agree with putting Willis inbetween them.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:16 pm Has anybody mentioned Heyes’s shorts…… just asking?

Can't say I noticed. Super tight?

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:38 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:16 pm Has anybody mentioned Heyes’s shorts…… just asking?

Can't say I noticed. Super tight?

Oh yes!!!

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:34 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:24 pm The Currys are wonderful scrappers. Put them up against top quality back row opposition, though, and their overall presence is inadequate.

They’ve played one match together and I thought they went well.
Agree with putting Willis inbetween them.

Currys plus Willis. Abso-bloody-lutey!!!

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:26 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:14 pm

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:44 pm

Murley may have inherited the traditional 'England player brainfarts', because those two in the 22 he didn't deal with were really dumb. Certainly not calling for him to be dropped or anything, I think he's got potential but I do hope it doesn't get to him. I have vague memories of Balshaw in 2009 or 2010 6 nations playing FB and seemingly falling apart across the tournament.

Wing is a competitive area. I don't think it's a certainty he starts next week. Would be harsh but it's not going to be easy up against Dupont putting the kicks in with those French wingers pressuring.

It's not as if he dropped kicks. He lost his composure and made stupid mistakes. They're two very different things. You don't drop him for that, necessarily, it's not a technical error like Steward consistently makes.

Well he dropped the first one, which is why he ended up panicking behind the try line. He might not be dropped but he might be overtaken. It's a competitive area.

Steward over chasing one break isn't a massive issue. He starts dropping catches I'd be more worried. Can't see him being dropped though Marcus to 15 is an option Vs France if they are going to kick long.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:40 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:38 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:16 pm Has anybody mentioned Heyes’s shorts…… just asking?

Can't say I noticed. Super tight?

Oh yes!!!

Nice pair of spray on shorts for the ladies, he must be single and hoping for a good evening in Dublin.

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:26 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:14 pm

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 7:44 pm

Murley may have inherited the traditional 'England player brainfarts', because those two in the 22 he didn't deal with were really dumb. Certainly not calling for him to be dropped or anything, I think he's got potential but I do hope it doesn't get to him. I have vague memories of Balshaw in 2009 or 2010 6 nations playing FB and seemingly falling apart across the tournament.

Wing is a competitive area. I don't think it's a certainty he starts next week. Would be harsh but it's not going to be easy up against Dupont putting the kicks in with those French wingers pressuring.

It's not as if he dropped kicks. He lost his composure and made stupid mistakes. They're two very different things. You don't drop him for that, necessarily, it's not a technical error like Steward consistently makes.

He did though. Got himself in the wrong position three times to let a ball bounce (including the one he got a hand to and knocked it back over the line).

Puja

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 9:43 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:26 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:14 pm

Wing is a competitive area. I don't think it's a certainty he starts next week. Would be harsh but it's not going to be easy up against Dupont putting the kicks in with those French wingers pressuring.

It's not as if he dropped kicks. He lost his composure and made stupid mistakes. They're two very different things. You don't drop him for that, necessarily, it's not a technical error like Steward consistently makes.

Well he dropped the first one, which is why he ended up panicking behind the try line. He might not be dropped but he might be overtaken. It's a competitive area.

Steward over chasing one break isn't a massive issue. He starts dropping catches I'd be more worried. Can't see him being dropped though Marcus to 15 is an option Vs France if they are going to kick long.

yeah murley touched the first one, which the commentators missed, which is why he tried to run it out.

Thought Steward was ok- missing JGP one on one was no crime, most intl backs should beat most defenders one on one in space and running at pace. When he hit the line out wide the wingers seemed to be overrunning tho...timing I guess.

Not sure why Lawrence is getting stick; also worried that Tom Curry was broken again.