RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote:
Jo Swinson is a fucking scumbag.

Now that's just odd, and unpleasant. I don't for instance think Angela Rayner is a fucking scumbag, I just think I don't agree with her on lots of policy issues.

Digby wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
Jo Swinson is a fucking scumbag.

Now that's just odd, and unpleasant. I don't for instance think Angela Rayner is a fucking scumbag, I just think I don't agree with her on lots of policy issues.

While I'm not endorsing the epithet, Rayner has significantly less history of lying through her teeth or of abandoning her previously stated "firmly-held" positions.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
Jo Swinson is a fucking scumbag.

Now that's just odd, and unpleasant. I don't for instance think Angela Rayner is a fucking scumbag, I just think I don't agree with her on lots of policy issues.

While I'm not endorsing the epithet, Rayner has significantly less history of lying through her teeth or of abandoning her previously stated "firmly-held" positions.

Puja

“I've said once, and I will say it again, we have no plans to write off existing student debt and we never promised to do so.” - Rayner

Although she does have some difficulty there given previous ill-informed comments from Corbyn and McDonnell, who when they said Labour would deal with this didn't really mean anything in particular. And that's not to even especially criticise Rayner, it's almost unavoidable these things will happen in a career, but I suspect it's one of the issues being tagged on Swinson

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:
Now that's just odd, and unpleasant. I don't for instance think Angela Rayner is a fucking scumbag, I just think I don't agree with her on lots of policy issues.

While I'm not endorsing the epithet, Rayner has significantly less history of lying through her teeth or of abandoning her previously stated "firmly-held" positions.

Puja

“I've said once, and I will say it again, we have no plans to write off existing student debt and we never promised to do so.” - Rayner

Although she does have some difficulty there given previous ill-informed comments from Corbyn and McDonnell, who when they said Labour would deal with this didn't really mean anything in particular. And that's not to even especially criticise Rayner, it's almost unavoidable these things will happen in a career, but I suspect it's one of the issues being tagged on Swinson

She wasn't lying though - all Corbyn ever said on existing student debt at the last election was answering a question of "What do you plan to do about existing debt if you're planning on getting rid of new stuff?" with "Well, that's not part of our manifesto, but we'd look at that in the future. I'm sure we'd do something with it - we would deal with it." The Conservatives then took that equivocation and deflection as a definite promise to cancel all existing fees immediately and then berated Labour for not keeping a promise they had never made.

Rayner seems like a very weird choice for a comparator, as she seems about as close to an honest politician as we are likely to get.

Swinson, on the other hand, voted for an EU referendum in 2008 that she said was "unforgiveable" for Cameron to promise in 2010, has voted consistently for benefit cuts, austerity, and corporation tax cuts and now rails against those things that she made happen, and has led a phenomenally disingenuous and mendacious campaign this election, relying on pamphlets that are packed full of bare-faced lies.

Puja

The vast majority of MPs are disingenuous. This campaign has already plumbed their depths of the referendum with its lies, low quality debate and general bs. Sadly, politicians know that the vast majority of people will not look beyond headlines so only need pump out lies and half truths and most will lap them up.

Puja wrote:
Swinson, on the other hand, voted for an EU referendum in 2008 that she said was "unforgiveable" for Cameron to promise in 2010, has voted consistently for benefit cuts, austerity, and corporation tax cuts and now rails against those things that she made happen, and has led a phenomenally disingenuous and mendacious campaign this election, relying on pamphlets that are packed full of bare-faced lies.

Puja

There we go. Don’t know if that qualifies for “fucking scumbag” or not but who cares. Why would anyone believe for a second she will try and put in to action what she has claimed?

Wasn’t she behind every single LD recently abstaining over the US/NHS trade talks too? She’ll swing whichever it looks like there is an opportunity, she’s not unique in that, but still.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
While I'm not endorsing the epithet, Rayner has significantly less history of lying through her teeth or of abandoning her previously stated "firmly-held" positions.

Puja

“I've said once, and I will say it again, we have no plans to write off existing student debt and we never promised to do so.” - Rayner

Although she does have some difficulty there given previous ill-informed comments from Corbyn and McDonnell, who when they said Labour would deal with this didn't really mean anything in particular. And that's not to even especially criticise Rayner, it's almost unavoidable these things will happen in a career, but I suspect it's one of the issues being tagged on Swinson

She wasn't lying though - all Corbyn ever said on existing student debt at the last election was answering a question of "What do you plan to do about existing debt if you're planning on getting rid of new stuff?" with "Well, that's not part of our manifesto, but we'd look at that in the future. I'm sure we'd do something with it - we would deal with it." The Conservatives then took that equivocation and deflection as a definite promise to cancel all existing fees immediately and then berated Labour for not keeping a promise they had never made.

Rayner seems like a very weird choice for a comparator, as she seems about as close to an honest politician as we are likely to get.

Swinson, on the other hand, voted for an EU referendum in 2008 that she said was "unforgiveable" for Cameron to promise in 2010, has voted consistently for benefit cuts, austerity, and corporation tax cuts and now rails against those things that she made happen, and has led a phenomenally disingenuous and mendacious campaign this election, relying on pamphlets that are packed full of bare-faced lies.

Puja

Saying you'll deal with something should mean something, not merely be an ambiguity or placeholder on conversation, and btw, Labour picked up a lot of support from what Corbyn said, as did the Lib Dems from their earlier conference policy on tuition fees. Recently, as far back as his Tory leadership campaign, Boris said he'd deal with social care, now that's regressed to he'll talk to other parties about it, maybe. Both presented a deal with it message, both didn't deal with it.

Though again it's going to be very hard to have any public life and not at times have previous comments of group affiliations which don't speak to a current position.

And I'm not saying this to suggest everyone need agree with Jo Swinson, and certainly not vote for her, I'm only saying it to suggest calling her a fucking scumbag seems more than a little beyond the pale.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:
Swinson, on the other hand, voted for an EU referendum in 2008 that she said was "unforgiveable" for Cameron to promise in 2010, has voted consistently for benefit cuts, austerity, and corporation tax cuts and now rails against those things that she made happen, and has led a phenomenally disingenuous and mendacious campaign this election, relying on pamphlets that are packed full of bare-faced lies.

Puja

There we go. Don’t know if that qualifies for “fucking scumbag” or not but who cares. Why would anyone believe for a second she will try and put in to action what she has claimed?

Wasn’t she behind every single LD recently abstaining over the US/NHS trade talks too? She’ll swing whichever it looks like there is an opportunity, she’s not unique in that, but still.

I care. She's not quick enough on her feet at the top level of political discourse to really advance her or her party's cause, which is a shame but it is what it is. But she's a decent person trying to do a decent thing, as are many Labour or Tory MPs, and she's not a 'fucking scumbag'

Mellsblue wrote:The vast majority of MPs are disingenuous. This campaign has already plumbed their depths of the referendum with its lies, low quality debate and general bs. Sadly, politicians know that the vast majority of people will not look beyond headlines so only need pump out lies and half truths and most will lap them up.

There's a lot of disingenuousness about, but Boris is in a class of his own (on this side of the Atlantic, at least).

What do you want me to say? Maybe that’s an unfair phrase to use, as I said. But whether she’s genuinely callous or just out of her depth it impacts people’s lives.

I’m sure there are lots of good people across the board, but we see her wilfully misleading people and her actions don’t seem to correlate with what she preaches.

It’s a fairly thankless task I suppose. If you’re reading this Jo I’m sorry I called you a scumbag but please try and do better.

Swinson is no scum bag. I'd take her ahead of Johnson and Corbyn in a heartbeat, but its fair to say that she and the LibDem campaign havent struck the chords that i thought they would do.

The most impressive leader has been Adam Price of Plaid Cymru.

Meanwhile, bloody Farage looks on cackling...'my work here is done'.

fivepointer wrote:Swinson is no scum bag. I'd take her ahead of Johnson and Corbyn in a heartbeat, but its fair to say that she and the LibDem campaign havent struck the chords that i thought they would do.

The most impressive leader has been Adam Price of Plaid Cymru.

Totally agree about Price. He comes across very well and seems to put practicalities and facts over ideology.

Sandydragon wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Swinson is no scum bag. I'd take her ahead of Johnson and Corbyn in a heartbeat, but its fair to say that she and the LibDem campaign havent struck the chords that i thought they would do.

The most impressive leader has been Adam Price of Plaid Cymru.

Totally agree about Price. He comes across very well and seems to put practicalities and facts over ideology.

Right up until he has to talk budgets

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Swinson is no scum bag. I'd take her ahead of Johnson and Corbyn in a heartbeat, but its fair to say that she and the LibDem campaign havent struck the chords that i thought they would do.

The most impressive leader has been Adam Price of Plaid Cymru.

Totally agree about Price. He comes across very well and seems to put practicalities and facts over ideology.

Right up until he has to talk budgets

hardly alone there!

Well, posted my vote off today.
I've not been impressed by the Lib Dems this campaign, but (apparently) they've got the best chance of beating our ERG twatopotamus, so they got my vote.

https://tactical.vote/compare?

So I'm back in the UK and my parents get The Times.

Any mention of Amazon and the NHS? Nope.
Any mention of what Arlene Foster said? Nope.
Any mention of what some random Jewish guy said about Corbyn? Hell Yeah!

It's truly abysmal.

There's even been an analysis of stories that shows almost a quarter of all screentime has been on the Tories 2 main topics (Brexit and tax), while only 13% has been on Labour's 2 main topics (Health and the environment).

Now I can understand Brexit being high on the agenda, but tax? More than the NHS?

Tax isn’t one of Labour’s main topics?!?!?!? Are you joking. I’d assume it’s being talked about as the tax plans of the two main parties are so radically different. Both are pumping a shed load more money into the NHS. There’s not much to go at there.

I’m scrolling through the content of my digital Times. Can’t see anything about ‘some random Jewish guy’. What are you referencing? I also can’t see anything about Arlene Foster but she’s not one of two people who could be PM by the weekend, so I can see why it might not be covered.

As for what is in The Times. Lead article is about Boris visiting Labour heartlands, ie where the election will be won and lost. Labour get about as many words during the piece as the Conservatives do. There are then three articles on the Conservatives, one on how Whitehall don’t think we’ll be out of the EU at the end of next year and four pieces on Labour. That looks an awful lot like Labour come off better. The final piece on Labour is about how they are dominating the Conservatives on Instagram, with 4 million views compared to 1.2 million.

The social media bias towards Labour and Remain is truly abysmal. It’s a conspiracy to disenfranchise the elderly and brain wash the young!! (Did I do that correctly?)

Oh, and as a migrant myself, this nonsense is utterly terrible. Where are the other politicians calling it out? not just Sturgeon?

Yep. It’s a terrible thing to say. Sad thing is he doesn’t really believe that but knows it plays well in Labour’s heartlands. You know you’ve messed up when you let Sturgeon take the moral high ground. Probably suits her to distract from recent poor results of Scottish schools and the plummeting trust in the SNP to run the NHS in Scotland.

Does this mean Boris now thinks rich Russians should actually have to pay their tax? Is that the migrants he was talking about?

Digby wrote:Does this mean Boris now thinks rich Russians should actually have to pay their tax? Is that the migrants he was talking about?

Remember, rich white migrants are called "expats".

Just caught up with Arlene Foster’s intervention. Funny how she’s a liar when you disagree with her but a paragon of truth when she’s on your side. Boris is lying about checks in the Irish Sea, but normally on this board we are told you can’t believe a word that comes out of her mouth.

Mellsblue wrote:Just caught up with Arlene Foster’s intervention. Funny how she’s a liar when you disagree with her but a paragon of truth when she’s on your side. Boris is lying about checks in the Irish Sea, but normally on this board we are told you can’t believe a word that comes out of her mouth.

Oh, I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be reported...

Otherwise Boris would never be seen!!!

I'm just amazed at some opinions. My dad is adamant the BBC is biased against the Tories. And I just have to keep trying to point things out to him.

Like basic principles of capitalism. Or what the proposed taxation changes of each party mean for him.

And people like him are all going to go out and vote for bloody Boris.

The UK needs a root and branch reform of the press.

Reading The Times made me so damn sad. Let me just post some of the headlines...

Johnson to blitz seats in Labour heartlands (PM will warn of 'great betrayal' under Corbyn)
Johnson vows end to migrants 'treating Britain as their own' (with a picture of him and other ministers smiling)
McDonnell admits antisemitism has harmed campaign
Corbyn tried to gag press
NHS leader attacks Labour and Tories for misleading promises (his quotes don't seem to talk about Labour at all)
Lofty ambitions for railways look like pie in the sky

And that's not as bad as Sat or Friday.

Oh, and the image of the boy on the floor? Page 11 and only mentioned once in paragraph 12 of a minor column (the one about the NHS leader attacking Labour when he doesn't appear to have).