COVID19

[fivepointer]

Apparently the excel s/sheet couldnt cope with the extra numbers. IT glitch.....

This is such basic stuff. For crissake can we stop with the amateur hour farting about. We're an embarrassment.

[Digby]

Boom. Alec Guinness had to pop into the health department earlier to tell them the numbers they were looking at were not the numbers they'd been looking for.

It's not really good enough to call this an IT glitch, for something like this to cock up you need a bad understanding of what you're requesting of your IT service and/or a bad understanding of what you've received/tested from your IT service. Utterly inept barely does it justice.

Well, its not like its been rushed through without due consideration or anything like that is it?

It cannot possibly have had due consideration, and that's not just on the IT girls and boys

[Digby]

Apparently the excel s/sheet couldnt cope with the extra numbers. IT glitch.....

This is such basic stuff. For crissake can we stop with the amateur hour farting about. We're an embarrassment.

I can't believe that's the case, if for no other reason than why use excel to begin with. But whatever they've done fails at some utterly ridiculous basic level, both in the initial failure and the failure to identify the failure instantly

[Sandydragon]

Apparently the excel s/sheet couldnt cope with the extra numbers. IT glitch.....

This is such basic stuff. For crissake can we stop with the amateur hour farting about. We're an embarrassment.

Unfortunately, this is how government IT works. A minister wants something by tomorrow and the IT people try to fulfil it within that time scale. Arguments like, we need a month to scope the solution and make sure it meets the business requirement, whilst being sufficiently secure and represents the best value for money for the tax payer just get ignored. It is a crisis so lots of corners are being cut, but equally this isn't that abnormal.

[Digby]

Apparently the excel s/sheet couldnt cope with the extra numbers. IT glitch.....

This is such basic stuff. For crissake can we stop with the amateur hour farting about. We're an embarrassment.

Unfortunately, this is how government IT works. A minister wants something by tomorrow and the IT people try to fulfil it within that time scale. Arguments like, we need a month to scope the solution and make sure it meets the business requirement, whilst being sufficiently secure and represents the best value for money for the tax payer just get ignored. It is a crisis so lots of corners are being cut, but equally this isn't that abnormal.

Then the minister is signing off on receiving a system that doesn't work, and that's on them.

If you poorly set out what you want to an IT department, don't test what they supply you, possibly don't even understand what they're supplying you that's not the fault of the IT staff. Though in this one suspects they've employed lots of nice but dim Tims across the board

[Sandydragon]

Apparently the excel s/sheet couldnt cope with the extra numbers. IT glitch.....

This is such basic stuff. For crissake can we stop with the amateur hour farting about. We're an embarrassment.

Unfortunately, this is how government IT works. A minister wants something by tomorrow and the IT people try to fulfil it within that time scale. Arguments like, we need a month to scope the solution and make sure it meets the business requirement, whilst being sufficiently secure and represents the best value for money for the tax payer just get ignored. It is a crisis so lots of corners are being cut, but equally this isn't that abnormal.

Then the minister is signing off on receiving a system that doesn't work, and that's on them.

If you poorly set out what you want to an IT department, don't test what they supply you, possibly don't even understand what they're supplying you that's not the fault of the IT staff. Though in this one suspects they've employed lots of nice but dim Tims across the board

Er no, they just blame the Civil Servants.

[Digby]

Unfortunately, this is how government IT works. A minister wants something by tomorrow and the IT people try to fulfil it within that time scale. Arguments like, we need a month to scope the solution and make sure it meets the business requirement, whilst being sufficiently secure and represents the best value for money for the tax payer just get ignored. It is a crisis so lots of corners are being cut, but equally this isn't that abnormal.

Then the minister is signing off on receiving a system that doesn't work, and that's on them.

If you poorly set out what you want to an IT department, don't test what they supply you, possibly don't even understand what they're supplying you that's not the fault of the IT staff. Though in this one suspects they've employed lots of nice but dim Tims across the board

Er no, they just blame the Civil Servants.

Indeed, appalling management though to claim you own/direct a process and then pushback on accepting blame

Still this is a culture in which following the success of eat out to help out in pushing the R number that Boris just a shorwthile ago encouraged people to go to the cinema

If the government has a map they're following through this process it's a Jackson Pollock designed map

[morepork]

Your fate lies in the hands of excel. Classic. Was the abacus broken or something?

[Sandydragon]

Your fate lies in the hands of excel. Classic. Was the abacus broken or something?

We don't waste tax payers money on any more modern.

Seriously, government IT is not a happy place on the whole.

[Digby]

I simply don't believe excel is the best database the government has licensed for this job. They might well not have the ideal DB, but you'd expect better decisions being made than this if back in the day you dragged a drunken arts student out of a pub and sat them in front of a computer for the first time.

And if they are going to use excel how in the blazes are there no basic checks to ensure data is not being lost? This isn't a government guided by science, this is a government guided by sciolism

[morepork]

Excel. Fuck my arse. I can't get my head around that.

[Sandydragon]

I simply don't believe excel is the best database the government has licensed for this job. They might well not have the ideal DB, but you'd expect better decisions being made than this if back in the day you dragged a drunken arts student out of a pub and sat them in front of a computer for the first time.

And if they are going to use excel how in the blazes are there no basic checks to ensure data is not being lost? This isn't a government guided by science, this is a government guided by sciolism

Assuming excel has actually been used, or is just a reporting tool and not the main db. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was nothing off the shelf available and they went with that which was available. This may be a red herring but having seen how many front line IT services are thrown together if not be surprised if it were based on excel.

[morepork]

The database should be amenable to modeling. Excel is not amenable to modeling. Assuming you are collating raw data from multiple sources, there should be daily reports that give changes, outbreaks, age, gender, ethnicity, etc etc. What I'm seeing here is that Excel was the main database and that it ran out of room. Excel just can't handle this shit. The WHO and the CDC have online teaching epidemiology software packages tools that are superior to Excel, just for starters.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Jesus. Excel is fine if you need something quickly, or you need a lot of flexibility, but you need to have checks for god's sake.

And that's not an IT glitch, that's user error.

[Sandydragon]

Actually it was more of an IT glitch as apparently they were using an old version of Excel.

Well I say IT but in reality it wouldn’t surprise me if someone who knows a bit more than the average Joe about excel did something ad hoc.

There is no way this passed through any basic assurance process pre-use.

[cashead]

Well, we jut kicked the shit out of COVID for a second time.

[Puja]

Well, we jut kicked the shit out of COVID for a second time.

Shit, how did you manage that? Did you have a special licence that included Microsoft Publisher or something?!

Puja

[cashead]

Well, we jut kicked the shit out of COVID for a second time.

Shit, how did you manage that? Did you have a special licence that included Microsoft Publisher or something?!

Puja

Regional lockdown, in this case Auckland, while reinstating the mandatory basic public health measures across the country (facemasks on public transport, constant reminders to wash hands for 20 seconds, mandatory social distancing, etc). There was also a significant upswing in the use of the COVID tracer app, which made contact tracing fairly successful - the rest was to basically interview, test and quarantine people who were exposed as they were detected. The key thing is that the 2-week lockdown cut off the virus' ability to spread, so the number of confirmed cases in the community was fairly low this time around. This meant that the virus wasn't able to spread much further beyond the one cluster (creatively named "The Auckland August Cluster"), which capped off at 179 cases - it didn't help that it ended up spreading significantly via a church, but despite numbers, was also fairly well-contained.

The only other "outbreak" was a staff member at a hotel where people arriving into the country are doing their mandatory isolation managed to get infected, probably through surface transmission (the public health staff were able to trace it back to a person in mandatory isolation that was in quarantine, but the infected staff member and the person in question never came into contact at any point).

Auckland has just now gone into Level 1 alert down from the Level 2 alert we've been at for about a month, and we've just gone through an entire infection cycle without a single community case detected.

[Puja]

Well, we jut kicked the shit out of COVID for a second time.

Shit, how did you manage that? Did you have a special licence that included Microsoft Publisher or something?!

Puja

Regional lockdown, in this case Auckland, while reinstating the mandatory basic public health measures across the country (facemasks on public transport, constant reminders to wash hands for 20 seconds, mandatory social distancing, etc). There was also a significant upswing in the use of the COVID tracer app, which made contact tracing fairly successful - the rest was to basically interview, test and quarantine people who were exposed as they were detected. The key thing is that the 2-week lockdown cut off the virus' ability to spread, so the number of confirmed cases in the community was fairly low this time around. This meant that the virus wasn't able to spread much further beyond the one cluster (creatively named "The Auckland August Cluster"), which capped off at 179 cases - it didn't help that it ended up spreading significantly via a church, but despite numbers, was also fairly well-contained.

The only other "outbreak" was a staff member at a hotel where people arriving into the country are doing their mandatory isolation managed to get infected, probably through surface transmission (the public health staff were able to trace it back to a person in mandatory isolation that was in quarantine, but the infected staff member and the person in question never came into contact at any point).

Auckland has just now gone into Level 1 alert down from the Level 2 alert we've been at for about a month, and we've just gone through an entire infection cycle without a single community case detected.

Ah - actual functional government and clear, consistent public messaging. We don't do that here.

Puja

[paddy no 11]

The isle of man is doing it well enough - including prison for others not inclined to comply with 2 week isolation

[Digby]

Having been critical of government for utterly shanking communication around Covid19 it's so pleasing to learn we're going with a regional multi-tiered approach that starts at medium, one presumes because like moronic coffees shops you can't start with a low/small offering. Just how the feck is advising them to veer all over the place from eat out to help out, to go to the cinema, to stay at home all within hours at times?

Clearly one can look at Sweden having a consistent message and find some minor things to quibble about in that approach too, but that doesn't excuse Agent Cummings and Goings and Boris pratting around day after day during a pandemic refusing to take it seriously.

[Sandydragon]

Apparently there is serious consideration for a 2-3 week circuit break over half term. FFS if this is correct then make the frigging call and let people sort out holiday plans early. I don’t object on principle to a circuit break, the situation is looking like it will be needed, but please spare us another last minute faff.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The UK government is ignoring the science:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... econd-wave

The 2nd wave is gathering momentum:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... gures-show

Starmer takes a strong opposing position:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... on-england
It'll be interesting to see how this plays in the (currently tied) opinion polls.

[Puja]

Apparently there is serious consideration for a 2-3 week circuit break over half term. FFS if this is correct then make the frigging call and let people sort out holiday plans early. I don’t object on principle to a circuit break, the situation is looking like it will be needed, but please spare us another last minute faff.

That is the best idea I've heard. As you said, would have to be communicated early and clearly (beyond the capacity of this government), but it's the perfect opportunity with schoolchildren already at home and it could cut the second wave off at the knees.

Would need to be accompanied by a robust 2 week furlough scheme, but it's a golden opportunity that the government will absolutely fail to take.

Puja

[morepork]

Shat the bed is a phrase that comes to mind.

Is the testing and tracing in any way functioning there?