RugbyRebels

Oakboy wrote:

bitts wrote:I'd love to see Ford/Slade/JJ at some point in the Autumn.

While Faz is clearly very good, he doesn't do enough I the final third for me.

Actually moving towards Yards on one wing. He has a host of limitations, but if we're looking for a hard working with get to smash it up the middle a bit the he's our best option.

That said a May, Roko,Watson back three would be great to watch.

Ideally, I'd pick Ford/Slade/JJ too but I simply don't think we will see a XV for a significant game without Farrell in it this side of the RWC, assuming he is fit and Eddie is still in charge. Farrell in the XV is 99% certain, IMO, and Ford/Farrell together is probably 70%+. There is a small chance only that we will see Slade and JJ tried together. If it has to be with Farrell at 10, I'd rather have that than not see it all.

I'm not 100% certain Eddie is as sold on Faz as the rest of the world. He's had him as his starting Flyhalf once, I think, for half an hour. Then Ford came on and showed everyone what everyone can do.

If Eddie was sure Faz was his ten why wouldn't he just as swap Ford and Te'o Or Ford and Slade?

bitts wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

bitts wrote:I'd love to see Ford/Slade/JJ at some point in the Autumn.

While Faz is clearly very good, he doesn't do enough I the final third for me.

Actually moving towards Yards on one wing. He has a host of limitations, but if we're looking for a hard working with get to smash it up the middle a bit the he's our best option.

That said a May, Roko,Watson back three would be great to watch.

Ideally, I'd pick Ford/Slade/JJ too but I simply don't think we will see a XV for a significant game without Farrell in it this side of the RWC, assuming he is fit and Eddie is still in charge. Farrell in the XV is 99% certain, IMO, and Ford/Farrell together is probably 70%+. There is a small chance only that we will see Slade and JJ tried together. If it has to be with Farrell at 10, I'd rather have that than not see it all.

I'm not 100% certain Eddie is as sold on Faz as the rest of the world. He's had him as his starting Flyhalf once, I think, for half an hour. Then Ford came on and showed everyone what everyone can do.

If Eddie was sure Faz was his ten why wouldn't he just as swap Ford and Te'o Or Ford and Slade?

But he hasn't left him out. Whatever his thinking (doesn't trust Ford to kick, doesn't trust Ford to run the game or simply believes Ford/Farrell is the best 10/12 compromise), Eddie has so far declined to choose one or the other. It is interesting too that he has never played Ford at 12 even for ten minutes so does he feel that Ford cannot pull his weight defensively? We can go round and round trying to second-guess Eddie. I just think he picks his best XV regardless of all other opinion and cares not a jot about traditional positional preferences such as 'natural opensides' or 'locks belong in the 2nd row'. It's hard to argue but I'd just love to see Slade get a decent run.

Scrumhead wrote:
I'm not so sure about the last sentence though. May is the most deserving of any of our back three candidates right now and should be in the side on merit. Wade is barely making a case for a place in the Wasps side at the moment, let alone the EPS.

Kvesic's anonymity is a bit of a worry at Chiefs. Baxter talked about being excited to have signed him, but he seems to be behind pretty much everyone else, which definitely raises questions. Is he just completely off the boil?

I'm not too interested in picking an England side based on games in this season alone, actually I'm verging on not interested in that, with some allowances perhaps for Simmonds. On Kvesic I hope merely he's working in camp to be ready to deliver what Baxter wants when he does start, the Exeter game is a very different one to support, and they supposedly want him to carry too, and I'd happily accept that'll take some work

Manu Tuilagi back early December allegedly. Just in time to have a few games, get a bit of hype up, maybe attend an England training camp and then injure a completely different part of his body before the 6N. I don't think he's done his left ankle yet, so maybe it'll be that one.

Puja

Wow. This weirdo loves Henry Slade even more than I do.

Te’o, a strong candidate for England’s midfield next month, limped off early in Worcester’s European Challenge Cup win over Brive but is still awaiting a specialist’s verdict on whether he needs an operation. “Ben’s unfortunately got a syndesmosis injury of his ankle,” said Worcester’s head coach, Carl Hogg. “He’s being assessed and will head back down to Cardiff on Monday to see whether he’ll go down a surgical route or whether it’ll be managed conservatively. He’s expected to be out for at least a month but we’ll find out more next week.”

The lengths some people will go to to avoid being coached by Alan Solomans.

Mikey Brown wrote:Wow. This weirdo loves Henry Slade even more than I do.

If I didn't think it beyond his IT capabilities my first guess would be Oakboy.

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Wow. This weirdo loves Henry Slade even more than I do.

If I didn't think it beyond his IT capabilities my first guess would be Oakboy.

Not guilty. Mind you, a few people watching it might see indications that Slade is more physical (in carrying and tackling) and is quicker over the ground than many give him credit for.

Mellsblue wrote: If I didn't think it beyond his IT capabilities my first guess would be Oakboy.

If the music is terrible it's probably Raggs

Puja wrote:Manu Tuilagi back early December allegedly. Just in time to have a few games, get a bit of hype up, maybe attend an England training camp and then injure a completely different part of his body before the 6N. I don't think he's done his left ankle yet, so maybe it'll be that one.

Puja

I remember when Johnny came back for the umpteenth time for Newcastle, ran the show for 70 mins then promptly injured his spleen or something. For a long time that guy had zero luck with injuries

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: If I didn't think it beyond his IT capabilities my first guess would be Oakboy.

If the music is terrible it's probably Raggs

Not guilty!

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: If I didn't think it beyond his IT capabilities my first guess would be Oakboy.

If the music is terrible it's probably Raggs

Not guilty!

I've heard the music (and the excuses)

Sarries ability to stay within the wage cap seems more plausible

bitts wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

bitts wrote:I'd love to see Ford/Slade/JJ at some point in the Autumn.

While Faz is clearly very good, he doesn't do enough I the final third for me.

Actually moving towards Yards on one wing. He has a host of limitations, but if we're looking for a hard working with get to smash it up the middle a bit the he's our best option.

That said a May, Roko,Watson back three would be great to watch.

Ideally, I'd pick Ford/Slade/JJ too but I simply don't think we will see a XV for a significant game without Farrell in it this side of the RWC, assuming he is fit and Eddie is still in charge. Farrell in the XV is 99% certain, IMO, and Ford/Farrell together is probably 70%+. There is a small chance only that we will see Slade and JJ tried together. If it has to be with Farrell at 10, I'd rather have that than not see it all.

I'm not 100% certain Eddie is as sold on Faz as the rest of the world. He's had him as his starting Flyhalf once, I think, for half an hour. Then Ford came on and showed everyone what everyone can do.

If Eddie was sure Faz was his ten why wouldn't he just as swap Ford and Te'o Or Ford and Slade?

I think Eddie loves Faz. He personifies exactly what Eddie wants England to be, chippy, determined, aggressive, tough and young/enthusiastic. I agree that he may not feel he's the best fly-half necessarily, but I can't see him not being in the side. In fact, if Eddie does favour George over Hartley going forward, I'd be shocked if Faz isn't his Captain.

Digby wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
I'm not so sure about the last sentence though. May is the most deserving of any of our back three candidates right now and should be in the side on merit. Wade is barely making a case for a place in the Wasps side at the moment, let alone the EPS.

Kvesic's anonymity is a bit of a worry at Chiefs. Baxter talked about being excited to have signed him, but he seems to be behind pretty much everyone else, which definitely raises questions. Is he just completely off the boil?

I'm not too interested in picking an England side based on games in this season alone, actually I'm verging on not interested in that, with some allowances perhaps for Simmonds. On Kvesic I hope merely he's working in camp to be ready to deliver what Baxter wants when he does start, the Exeter game is a very different one to support, and they supposedly want him to carry too, and I'd happily accept that'll take some work

I don’t think it’s solely about picking a side on form, but to disregard that entirely is just bizarre. When it comes to wingers, surely you want to pick a player on a hot streak, not a player who’s barely involved? Obviously it’s not completely Wade’s fault he’s seeing very little of the ball, but if Eddie didn’t pick him when he was running in the tries, why would he pick him now when he’s a peripheral figure in a struggling side?

I hope you’re right on Kvesic though.

Scrumhead wrote:

Digby wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:
I'm not so sure about the last sentence though. May is the most deserving of any of our back three candidates right now and should be in the side on merit. Wade is barely making a case for a place in the Wasps side at the moment, let alone the EPS.

Kvesic's anonymity is a bit of a worry at Chiefs. Baxter talked about being excited to have signed him, but he seems to be behind pretty much everyone else, which definitely raises questions. Is he just completely off the boil?

I'm not too interested in picking an England side based on games in this season alone, actually I'm verging on not interested in that, with some allowances perhaps for Simmonds. On Kvesic I hope merely he's working in camp to be ready to deliver what Baxter wants when he does start, the Exeter game is a very different one to support, and they supposedly want him to carry too, and I'd happily accept that'll take some work

I don’t think it’s solely about picking a side on form, but to disregard that entirely is just bizarre. When it comes to wingers, surely you want to pick a player on a hot streak, not a player who’s barely involved? Obviously it’s not completely Wade’s fault he’s seeing very little of the ball, but if Eddie didn’t pick him when he was running in the tries, why would he pick him now when he’s a peripheral figure in a struggling side?

I hope you’re right on Kvesic though.

Form is of some limited interest. But I don't as a for instance think I've seen Daly playing that well on the wing this season, or even playing all that well, and yet if I were to ignore resting players who were on the jamboree tour I'd pick Daly as an obvious starter.

Established player v debutant......debutant needs to be in form, established player gets quite a bit of leeway.

In both instances I'd pick based on how I'd expect a player to do. And actually in this instance with the more likely right wing selections being Yarde and May we're probably not looking at a debutant anyway

Mellsblue wrote:Established player v debutant......debutant needs to be in form, established player gets quite a bit of leeway.

Agreed. I generally agree with the old adage a ‘form is temporary, class is permanent’. However, as Digby pointed out, we’re generally not talking about debutants vs. established players.

Right now, Marchant or Trinder are in better form than JJ or Daly but that doesn’t mean to say I’d pick them.

On the other hand, I’d happily pick Underhill, a Curry or Simmonds (at 7) ahead of Haskell.

Is the squad announcement on Thursday the EPS and the squad for the AIs or just the latter?

It seems odd we haven’t had an actual EPS announcement yet.

Scrumhead wrote:Is the squad announcement on Thursday the EPS and the squad for the AIs or just the latter?

It seems odd we haven’t had an actual EPS announcement yet.

I did read about a month or so ago that the EPS isn’t being announced publically this season/any more. The clubs and players are aware of who’s in it to sort out the payments etc, but being kept private.

Strange ... I don’t see the benefit to it being secret?

As a player, you’d obviously know if you’re in or not, but I think keeping it private takes away some of the motivation for players on the fringes to get in to it - i.e. if you’re not 100% sure who’s in it or not, you wouldn’t know who to measure yourself against.

Scrumhead wrote:Strange ... I don’t see the benefit to it being secret?

As a player, you’d obviously know if you’re in or not, but I think keeping it private takes away some of the motivation for players on the fringes to get in to it - i.e. if you’re not 100% sure who’s in it or not, you wouldn’t know who to measure yourself against.

I can see advantages for both Eddie and the clubs. Eddie gets to control information, play silly beggers with those outside if he wants, and also gets to avoid press conversations about why he hasn't called up Cipriani or has called up a particular youngster. From the clubs' perspective, I would imagine it would help when they're trying to sign cover if the price isn't jacked up by vendors knowing that they'll have gaps in the squad due to the EPS.

Puja

If it's being kept a secret everyone involved in the game will still know who's in/out, there'd just be too many people knowing who wouldn't care about other people knowing. You'd have a decent chance keeping a matchday 23 quiet, not though the EPS.

And if the press want to run stories on who's in/out they will, it's very unlikely they wouldn't know the 45

Fair points. I don’t like it primarily because it takes the opportunity for debate away from us mere mortals.

Anyone expecting any surprises on Thursday??