Squad named

[Mellsblue]

Dan Kelly out....2 try Guy in.

BALLS!!!!!!!

What a way to start the week.

[p/d]

Ah FFS, just when you thought we might actually get a sodding 12 wearing the 12 shirt. Porter isn't even match sharp.

FFS!!!! ................ call up Seb Atkinson

[loudnconfident]

Loz in yesterday's ST. I noted:

"I was picked for England in all three back-row positions, which was an honour, but the one in which I performed best was the one in which I played regularly for Wasps – No 8. I hope that, unlike his predecessor, Borthwick factors this into selection."

+1

[Banquo]

Loz in yesterday's ST. I noted:

"I was picked for England in all three back-row positions, which was an honour, but the one in which I performed best was the one in which I played regularly for Wasps – No 8. I hope that, unlike his predecessor, Borthwick factors this into selection."

+1

He was a fantastic 6 for England and esp the Lions prior to wrecking his knee. Then SCW took a shine to Back, stuck Hill at 6 and the rest followed.

[p/d]

Volley carried Loz

[Banquo]

Volley carried Loz

is that a what three words address? The answer is probably a village called Legend in Middlesex.

[FKAS]

Ah FFS, just when you thought we might actually get a sodding 12 wearing the 12 shirt. Porter isn't even match sharp.

FFS!!!! ................ call up Seb Atkinson

He's got to be pretty close. Only 9 Prem games under his belt though so maybe been left at Glaws to up his minutes.

[Mikey Brown]

What is Borthwick doing to them all?!

On the bright side, it increases the chances of Smith at 10 - I don't mind Farrell at 12, as I do think it can work and I'd rather have our best 10 and a slightly worse 12 than have a worse 10 and a slightly better 12. Fly-half is more important.

Puja

See that's been my thinking for most of the last 7 or 8 years, but I've recently swung back to wanting Farrell at 10, in lieu of Smith/Ford with a real 12. I don't know how much that's down to having had him at 12 more recently for England. I might go back the other way very quickly after watching him there for a few games. If I felt England could reliably get more out of Smith that would change too.

I have nothing against Porter at all, I just can't see which of these problems he is solving. What a shame for Kelly.

Faz hasn't started much other than at 12 for quite a long time now iirc. Which is odd, as he never starts there for sarries.

I have a lot against Porter tbh. He's not looked up to it so far, and he hasn't played for about a month.

I just meant he seems like a good guy, puts the work in, and was fairly new to centre (as I understood it?) when he was thrown in there for England. But yeah, I don’t really want to see him in an England squad.

[SDHoneymonster]

On the plus side, Smith/Faz at 10/12 would allow Fin Smith on the bench for an expertly trolled capture cap. This makes it more likely, although it's a coin toss between that and Faz/Manu I suspect.

[p/d]

Ah FFS, just when you thought we might actually get a sodding 12 wearing the 12 shirt. Porter isn't even match sharp.

FFS!!!! ................ call up Seb Atkinson

He's got to be pretty close. Only 9 Prem games under his belt though so maybe been left at Glaws to up his minutes.

Yep. Just pissed off Kelly is out. Really looking forward to seeing him have a run of games for England.

[Mikey Brown]

On the plus side, Smith/Faz at 10/12 would allow Fin Smith on the bench for an expertly trolled capture cap. This makes it more likely, although it's a coin toss between that and Faz/Manu I suspect.

Is Borthwick as petulant as Eddie? It’s hard to see that being a factor.

[Spiffy]

One that never seems mentioned when these late midfield call ups happen - Sam James. Big, strong, rugby smart, cool head and good ball skills. Not a flier, but adequate pace. Totally unspectacular but usually rock solid and does everything well. Teams often benefit from the reassuring presence of a player like that.
He seems to have been around for ages but is still only 28. Eddie Jones did have him in previous squads, but something obviously didn't work.

[Danno]

Sam's been editing his own Wiki page

[Scrumhead]

Gutted about Kelly. I hope it’s not serious. He really does have an awful habit of getting injured at the worst possible times for England.

[FKAS]

Gutted about Kelly. I hope it’s not serious. He really does have an awful habit of getting injured at the worst possible times for England.

If we can get Kelly back in for the Italy game so we can trial a youthful backline of; JVP, Smith, Freeman, Kelly, Lawrence, Murley/OHC, Steward then that would be fun.

[Danno]

Gutted about Kelly. I hope it’s not serious. He really does have an awful habit of getting injured at the worst possible times for England.

If we can get Kelly back in for the Italy game so we can trial a youthful backline of; JVP, Smith, Freeman, Kelly, Lawrence, Murley/OHC, Steward then that would be fun.

Hahahahahaha

Try Youngs, Smith, Somewinger, Farrell, Tuilagi, Watson, Steward

[Danno]

My cynicism is growing by the moment

[Puja]

Gutted about Kelly. I hope it’s not serious. He really does have an awful habit of getting injured at the worst possible times for England.

If we can get Kelly back in for the Italy game so we can trial a youthful backline of; JVP, Smith, Freeman, Kelly, Lawrence, Murley/OHC, Steward then that would be fun.

I don't know Italy are to be underestimated. They're really building something and they'll be hunting us as one of the last major scalps that they haven't yet got.

- I don't mind Farrell at 12, as I do think it can work

Puja

despite all the evidence

It worked with Ford!

I wouldn't start with Smith/Farrell, but if we're having to do Farrell, I'd rather have him somewhere that he's not setting the tone for the entire backline.

FFS!!!! ................ call up Seb Atkinson

This. I want this. Not to start (I don't particularly want Porter starting either), but I'd want him in to see the level he needs to aim for and see how he copes training at a higher level. I'm such a fan of him and, while it's a bit late for apprentices, it's hopefully only going to be for a few days training if Kelly's not seriously injured, so we may as well.

Mind, if it is the case that it's only a couple of days, it does make some sense to have Porter, who knows the environment, can just drop back in, and can fill in across the backline in training matches. If he's not gonna start, Porter makes as much sense as anyone for a warm body at training.

Puja

[Danno]

The trouble with Farrell is that it always sets the tone for the entire backline.

10 or 12, the ball rarely gets wider.

It worked with Ford because he'd be in position to take the Farrell pass and get to the real backs. Farrell doesn't trust anyone that isn't Ford

[Banquo]

Gutted about Kelly. I hope it’s not serious. He really does have an awful habit of getting injured at the worst possible times for England.

If we can get Kelly back in for the Italy game so we can trial a youthful backline of; JVP, Smith, Freeman, Kelly, Lawrence, Murley/OHC, Steward then that would be fun.

I don't know Italy are to be underestimated. They're really building something and they'll be hunting us as one of the last major scalps that they haven't yet got.

- I don't mind Farrell at 12, as I do think it can work

Puja

despite all the evidence

It worked with Ford!

I wouldn't start with Smith/Farrell, but if we're having to do Farrell, I'd rather have him somewhere that he's not setting the tone for the entire backline.

FFS!!!! ................ call up Seb Atkinson

This. I want this. Not to start (I don't particularly want Porter starting either), but I'd want him in to see the level he needs to aim for and see how he copes training at a higher level. I'm such a fan of him and, while it's a bit late for apprentices, it's hopefully only going to be for a few days training if Kelly's not seriously injured, so we may as well.

Mind, if it is the case that it's only a couple of days, it does make some sense to have Porter, who knows the environment, can just drop back in, and can fill in across the backline in training matches. If he's not gonna start, Porter makes as much sense as anyone for a warm body at training.

Puja

Ford and Smith really arent comparable as players, plus imo Ford Faz wasnt all that as a combo.

[Mr Mwenda]

Gutted about Kelly. I hope it’s not serious. He really does have an awful habit of getting injured at the worst possible times for England.

I am trying to take this as a sign that Kelly is in the Abbott category of England 12s, up to it if injured inconveniently rather than the alternative which is just crap.

We're still paying the devil after Woodward sold Dawson, Wilkinson and Greenwood's souls at the crossroads in 2002.

[Banquo]

Gutted about Kelly. I hope it’s not serious. He really does have an awful habit of getting injured at the worst possible times for England.

How many times, out of interest? He's only 21, so has some time on his side given some luck.

[Oakboy]

I suppose it's not realistic to hope for Lawrence and Marchant at 12/13. Frankly, I fear for the required watershed change in style/application if either of Farrell or Tuilagi start at centre, never mind both. SB has certainly got some problems to solve if we are to show any attacking flair. Much as I want OHC to start, I'd rather he didn't if it's outside Smith, Farrell, Tuilagi.

[p/d]

Just got to put who and what number on the back burner and concentrate on the performance. I am far more interested in what happens on the pitch than sweating over who gets handed which shirt ............. at this stage of SB's tenure.

(better not be Faz and 12)

[Mikey Brown]

Just got to put who and what number on the back burner and concentrate on the performance. I am far more interested in what happens on the pitch than sweating over who gets handed which shirt ............. at this stage of SB's tenure.

(better not be Faz and 12)

On one hand I get what you’re saying, it’s important we have the right attitude, direction, clarity etc. but surely you can’t separate that from the 15 players who are picked?

Maybe the fact we’re all so unable to find a consensus on any (or all but a handful of) the shirts means they’re all close enough in quality that it doesn’t matter?

There is still potential for horribly imbalanced selections though, even when picking good individuals. That’s more of what concerns me. A backrow or midfield with the wrong balance could easily tip this game in the wrong direction.