RugbyRebels

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:27 pm I know it’s not England, but Odogwu and Dino Lamb make their Italy debuts this weekend.

It's such a shame they're going to get mullered into oblivion at the world cup. I've quite enjoyed watching them recently and Odogwu/Lamb will at least offer them some extra depth if not more.

I'd love to have seen them in pool C or D.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:31 pm

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:27 pm I know it’s not England, but Odogwu and Dino Lamb make their Italy debuts this weekend.

It's such a shame they're going to get mullered into oblivion at the world cup. I've quite enjoyed watching them recently and Odogwu/Lamb will at least offer them some extra depth if not more.

I'd love to have seen them in pool C or D.

Hopefully they at least give someone a scare / bloody nose along the way. They have it in them to do that.

Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:03 am Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

According to Planet Rugby, Arundell took part in full training yesterday.

rjjb wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:50 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:03 am Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

According to Planet Rugby, Arundell took part in full training yesterday.

Great news. I’m desperate for him to go and get some experience. It was reported as a minor injury but hamstrings are fickle.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:01 pm

rjjb wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:50 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:03 am Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

According to Planet Rugby, Arundell took part in full training yesterday.

Great news. I’m desperate for him to go and get some experience. It was reported as a minor injury but hamstrings are fickle.

And it was a hamstring issue that kept him out the autumn, wasn't it?

Puja

The thing with hamstrings is you’ve really got to push them.

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 10:30 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:01 pm

rjjb wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:50 pm

According to Planet Rugby, Arundell took part in full training yesterday.

Great news. I’m desperate for him to go and get some experience. It was reported as a minor injury but hamstrings are fickle.

And it was a hamstring issue that kept him out the autumn, wasn't it?

Puja

No - that was a foot injury.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:03 am Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

So THP - Cole, Stuart and Sinckler. SH - Care, Youngs, JVP. FH - Ford, Smith, Farrell

Then it gets tricky.

LHP - Genge plus 2 out of Rodd, Mako and Marler. If Mako is fit, Rodd drops out.
Hooker - George plus 2 out of Walker, Dan and Blamire. I think Blamire will go and Walker if hes fit.
Lock - Itoje, Chessum are certs. 2 from Martin, Hill or Ribbans. Think Hill will miss out.
Back row - Lawes, Curry for sure. Suspect Ludlam has done enough and J Willis will get a spot. Vunipola if fit.
Centre - Tuilai, Slade, Marchant and Lawrence.
Back 3 - Steward, Daly, Watson, Arundell and one other?

Can't really argue with any of that. Yesterday has possibly ruled out a few contenders for the other slot in some positions, whilst also not really helping to make the choice where 3rd or 4th choice is between a few people.

I reckon Walker has done best out of it, having watched Blamire and Dan firing lineout throws all over the shop.

Anyone feel like they can make any sort of statement on which of the locks who played shouldn't miss out, based on their actual performances rather than personal preference?

Pearson looked like a big, honest trier, but it was a drab an ineffective performance as a unit by the backrow.

beyond the game, It's a fairly bleak comment on the last 4 years of player development that we aren't in a place to be able to definitely move on from Cole and Mako. Further to that, if you look back at Sinkler's performances at the last world cup, from half time vs Oz through to the point he gets sparked in the final, that we're not now talking about him being a clear candidate for best tight head in the world is a fairly damning statement too.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:29 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:03 am Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

So THP - Cole, Stuart and Sinckler. SH - Care, Youngs, JVP. FH - Ford, Smith, Farrell

Then it gets tricky.

LHP - Genge plus 2 out of Rodd, Mako and Marler. If Mako is fit, Rodd drops out.
Hooker - George plus 2 out of Walker, Dan and Blamire. I think Blamire will go and Walker if hes fit.
Lock - Itoje, Chessum are certs. 2 from Martin, Hill or Ribbans. Think Hill will miss out.
Back row - Lawes, Curry for sure. Suspect Ludlam has done enough and J Willis will get a spot. Vunipola if fit.
Centre - Tuilai, Slade, Marchant and Lawrence.
Back 3 - Steward, Daly, Watson, Arundell and one other?

I think the lock - backrow make-up depends on whether they see Lawes as a legitimate choice for the fourth lock and/or Martin/Chessum as a legitimate second choice Lawes. There’s more talent at flanker than lock so are they tempted to take only three locks to enable them to pick an extra flanker or are they wedded to a Lawes type 6 and therefore need to carry an insurance lock in case Martin/Chessum needs to replace an injured Lawes.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:29 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:03 am Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

So THP - Cole, Stuart and Sinckler. SH - Care, Youngs, JVP. FH - Ford, Smith, Farrell

Then it gets tricky.

LHP - Genge plus 2 out of Rodd, Mako and Marler. If Mako is fit, Rodd drops out.
Hooker - George plus 2 out of Walker, Dan and Blamire. I think Blamire will go and Walker if hes fit.
Lock - Itoje, Chessum are certs. 2 from Martin, Hill or Ribbans. Think Hill will miss out.
Back row - Lawes, Curry for sure. Suspect Ludlam has done enough and J Willis will get a spot. Vunipola if fit.
Centre - Tuilai, Slade, Marchant and Lawrence.
Back 3 - Steward, Daly, Watson, Arundell and one other?

I'm surprised you'd take Ribbans and Martin ahead of Hill after yesterday.

England’s probable World Cup squad
Forwards
E Genge, J Marler, B Rodd, J George, J Walker, T Dan, K Sinckler, D Cole, W Stuart, M Itoje, O Chessum, G Martin, D Ribbans, C Lawes, L Ludlam, T Curry, J Willis, B Earl, B Vunipola.
Backs
B Youngs, D Care, J van Poortvliet, O Farrell, G Ford, M Smith, M Tuilagi, O Lawrence, J Marchant, A Watson, E Daly, M Malins, H Arundell, F Steward

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:51 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:29 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:03 am Per The Times:
Three players in each specialist position will go to the World Cup due to HIAs and cards, ie Smith is in the squad.
Arundell injured his hamstring last week hence Murley recall.
The majority of the squad is picked with only the final spot at lock, back row, centres and wing to be settled.

So THP - Cole, Stuart and Sinckler. SH - Care, Youngs, JVP. FH - Ford, Smith, Farrell

Then it gets tricky.

LHP - Genge plus 2 out of Rodd, Mako and Marler. If Mako is fit, Rodd drops out.
Hooker - George plus 2 out of Walker, Dan and Blamire. I think Blamire will go and Walker if hes fit.
Lock - Itoje, Chessum are certs. 2 from Martin, Hill or Ribbans. Think Hill will miss out.
Back row - Lawes, Curry for sure. Suspect Ludlam has done enough and J Willis will get a spot. Vunipola if fit.
Centre - Tuilai, Slade, Marchant and Lawrence.
Back 3 - Steward, Daly, Watson, Arundell and one other?

I'm surprised you'd take Ribbans and Martin ahead of Hill after yesterday.

Why? All three played yesterday and Hill was easily the worst. The air tackle for the first Welsh try was a particular low point.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:27 pm

England’s probable World Cup squad
Forwards
E Genge, J Marler, B Rodd, J George, J Walker, T Dan, K Sinckler, D Cole, W Stuart, M Itoje, O Chessum, G Martin, D Ribbans, C Lawes, L Ludlam, T Curry, J Willis, B Earl, B Vunipola.
Backs
B Youngs, D Care, J van Poortvliet, O Farrell, G Ford, M Smith, M Tuilagi, O Lawrence, J Marchant, A Watson, E Daly, M Malins, H Arundell, F Steward

I'm expecting Mako over Rodd (even though Mako is an injury doubt) and Blamire over Dan but otherwise yep seems the way it's going according to the rumours.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:27 pm

England’s probable World Cup squad
Forwards
E Genge, J Marler, B Rodd, J George, J Walker, T Dan, K Sinckler, D Cole, W Stuart, M Itoje, O Chessum, G Martin, D Ribbans, C Lawes, L Ludlam, T Curry, J Willis, B Earl, B Vunipola.
Backs
B Youngs, D Care, J van Poortvliet, O Farrell, G Ford, M Smith, M Tuilagi, O Lawrence, J Marchant, A Watson, E Daly, M Malins, H Arundell, F Steward

Daily Mail reporting the same re Slade.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:31 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:51 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:29 am

So THP - Cole, Stuart and Sinckler. SH - Care, Youngs, JVP. FH - Ford, Smith, Farrell

Then it gets tricky.

LHP - Genge plus 2 out of Rodd, Mako and Marler. If Mako is fit, Rodd drops out.
Hooker - George plus 2 out of Walker, Dan and Blamire. I think Blamire will go and Walker if hes fit.
Lock - Itoje, Chessum are certs. 2 from Martin, Hill or Ribbans. Think Hill will miss out.
Back row - Lawes, Curry for sure. Suspect Ludlam has done enough and J Willis will get a spot. Vunipola if fit.
Centre - Tuilai, Slade, Marchant and Lawrence.
Back 3 - Steward, Daly, Watson, Arundell and one other?

I'm surprised you'd take Ribbans and Martin ahead of Hill after yesterday.

Why? All three played yesterday and Hill was easily the worst. The air tackle for the first Welsh try was a particular low point.

At least Hill caught the ball cleanly at the lineout.

That Sarries production line just keeps on churning out test players…

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:23 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:31 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:51 pm

I'm surprised you'd take Ribbans and Martin ahead of Hill after yesterday.

Why? All three played yesterday and Hill was easily the worst. The air tackle for the first Welsh try was a particular low point.

At least Hill caught the ball cleanly at the lineout.

The lineout went worse after he came on and I don't remember him being a particularly useful jumper and taking the ball any better than Ribbans and Martin. Ludlam is the only one I recall struggling in air.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:27 pm

England’s probable World Cup squad
Forwards
E Genge, J Marler, B Rodd, J George, J Walker, T Dan, K Sinckler, D Cole, W Stuart, M Itoje, O Chessum, G Martin, D Ribbans, C Lawes, L Ludlam, T Curry, J Willis, B Earl, B Vunipola.
Backs
B Youngs, D Care, J van Poortvliet, O Farrell, G Ford, M Smith, M Tuilagi, O Lawrence, J Marchant, A Watson, E Daly, M Malins, H Arundell, F Steward

You know what? I'll take that (if true). I'd rather May for Malins, but the rest of it seems like sensible decisions given the starting point and the carnage of yesterday.

Puja

I’m a huge Dombrandt fan, but the fight Willis showed in his few touches I have never seen from him or Billy. Why is it that this time people seem convinced Vunipola will show his (best) club form, having repeatedly come back from England hiatus only to underwhelm?

Maybe he’ll be great, but taking a punt on Tom Willis seems no less of a risk than hoping Billy refunds his mojo. If that was Willis’s only chance to stake a claim then what was the fucking point of the last 6 weeks of training camps?

At least Tom got some game time. I'm sure he's one for the near future.

Its tough for anyone to be cut at this stage. You got to feel for them, though the door will remain open in case there are injuries.

Tbf you could alternate player A with player B and it wouldnt make a huge amount of difference. We're not going to be leaving behind a world beating player and in some positions we have very little options to choose from.

I still think Cokanasiga will make it. After all, his skin fold measurements were the best he’s ever had and that trumps everything.

I'm also far from convinced that Vunipola is the solution at 8, but then again, I've not been invited to observe the squad training camps, so "in Borthers we trust".
However, I'm afraid that Stevie Blunder has made his biggest blunder in not including Tom Willis (and also having omitted Zach Mercer from the initial squad)