Transfer news, rumours, suggestions, frenzied speculation, and outright lies - Season 2023-24

[Oakboy]

I don’t want to ruin your reverie Dors but The Times are reporting that Jonny Hill is also likely off to France with Lyon the most likely destination.

His day has gone. Most see him as a penalty liability. I see him as another whose full potential was not realised. Of all the French exports, I see the biggest loss as Jack Willis.

It will be interesting to see how many, if any, of them return better players. Assessing how much improvement the French game adds is difficult. So far, is it fair to say that Mercer has underwhelmed, for example, despite all the claims? He certainly looked an inferior player to Dombrandt the other day.

[Which Tyler]

So far, is it fair to say that Mercer has underwhelmed, for example, despite all the claims?

No.
His early season matches were brilliant. Then he had a potentially season-ending ankle injury, and came back in December anyway. Judging him on 1 match, 2+ months before he was expected to be fit, is just silly.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... ad-8971834

Now whether he's better than he would have been staying in England is a different matter - as he was playing Premiership at International class before leaving, just upsetting Eddie Jones (and now Borthwick)

[Oakboy]

So far, is it fair to say that Mercer has underwhelmed, for example, despite all the claims?

No.
His early season matches were brilliant. Then he had a potentially season-ending ankle injury, and came back in December anyway. Judging him on 1 match, 2+ months before he was expected to be fit, is just silly.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... ad-8971834

Now whether he's better than he would have been staying in England is a different matter - as he was playing Premiership at International class before leaving, just upsetting Eddie Jones (and now Borthwick)

Fair comment. At this point, I thought Mercer or T Willis would be demanding the same sort of run that Dombrandt got in the last 6N. Who knows where SB will go with the 8 shirt but, assuming BV is out of the running, I'd imagine Earl, Barbeary and Dombrandt are ahead. With Lawes retired and Curry injured, I'd prefer Earl at 7 but the old arguments about line-out prowess will remain. Pick, say, two out of Barbeary, Earl and Underhill and who will join them as a jumper?

[Stom]

So far, is it fair to say that Mercer has underwhelmed, for example, despite all the claims?

No.
His early season matches were brilliant. Then he had a potentially season-ending ankle injury, and came back in December anyway. Judging him on 1 match, 2+ months before he was expected to be fit, is just silly.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... ad-8971834

Now whether he's better than he would have been staying in England is a different matter - as he was playing Premiership at International class before leaving, just upsetting Eddie Jones (and now Borthwick)

Fair comment. At this point, I thought Mercer or T Willis would be demanding the same sort of run that Dombrandt got in the last 6N. Who knows where SB will go with the 8 shirt but, assuming BV is out of the running, I'd imagine Earl, Barbeary and Dombrandt are ahead. With Lawes retired and Curry injured, I'd prefer Earl at 7 but the old arguments about line-out prowess will remain. Pick, say, two out of Barbeary, Earl and Underhill and who will join them as a jumper?

The thing is...Dombrandt is probably the best 8 in the Prem. It's just that he's not hit his stride in international rugby yet.

So comparing to him is a high bar.

In the first game of the season, Mercer looked very good, him and Dombrandt stood out. So, yeah, I think Mercer is quality.

[Peej]

Itoje'll be mighty fucked off if Sarries gave him a tiny deal to keep Faz as the marquee only for Faz to then leave after he signed it

[Mikey Brown]

I’m at the point I’m not 100% about any of Dombrandt, Earl or Mercer (with Willis/Fisilau very, very promising but entirely unproven options) but Borthwick definitely needs to recognise some sort of game-plan that can make use of their running talents.

Willis (and I think Fisilau) are the options potentially most capable of creating go-forward off slow ball, but we can’t rely on that yet and can’t go on hoping for one of the others to play like 2016 Billy.

If we’re assuming we’ll have slow, poor ball forever we may as well give up completely.

[Beasties]

Is T Willis injured? He doesn’t seem to have featured at all for Sarries lately.

[Stom]

I’m at the point I’m not 100% about any of Dombrandt, Earl or Mercer (with Willis/Fisilau very, very promising but entirely unproven options) but Borthwick definitely needs to recognise some sort of game-plan that can make use of their running talents.

Willis (and I think Fisilau) are the options potentially most capable of creating go-forward off slow ball, but we can’t rely on that yet and can’t go on hoping for one of the others to play like 2016 Billy.

If we’re assuming we’ll have slow, poor ball forever we may as well give up completely.

If we continue to produce slow ball that needs a player we do not have to produce workable ball...we're fooked.

It's got to the stage where we just need to pick an 8 and stick with them. Just one of them. Ditto in other slots, too, which is why it would be wonderful if lukewarm boy did go to France.

We also need to find some props or convince Bristol to sack Lam.

[Oakboy]

I’m at the point I’m not 100% about any of Dombrandt, Earl or Mercer (with Willis/Fisilau very, very promising but entirely unproven options) but Borthwick definitely needs to recognise some sort of game-plan that can make use of their running talents.

Willis (and I think Fisilau) are the options potentially most capable of creating go-forward off slow ball, but we can’t rely on that yet and can’t go on hoping for one of the others to play like 2016 Billy.

If we’re assuming we’ll have slow, poor ball forever we may as well give up completely.

You don't rate Barbeary?

[Oakboy]

Is T Willis injured? He doesn’t seem to have featured at all for Sarries lately.

Yes. Don't know the details.

[Scrumhead]

I’m at the point I’m not 100% about any of Dombrandt, Earl or Mercer (with Willis/Fisilau very, very promising but entirely unproven options) but Borthwick definitely needs to recognise some sort of game-plan that can make use of their running talents.

Willis (and I think Fisilau) are the options potentially most capable of creating go-forward off slow ball, but we can’t rely on that yet and can’t go on hoping for one of the others to play like 2016 Billy.

If we’re assuming we’ll have slow, poor ball forever we may as well give up completely.

You don't rate Barbeary?

Is Fisilau a particularly strong carrier? I see him as more of an ‘Exeter 8’ performing the Simmonds role rather than the heavy carrying role Ewers was there for.

[Oakboy]

I’m at the point I’m not 100% about any of Dombrandt, Earl or Mercer (with Willis/Fisilau very, very promising but entirely unproven options) but Borthwick definitely needs to recognise some sort of game-plan that can make use of their running talents.

Willis (and I think Fisilau) are the options potentially most capable of creating go-forward off slow ball, but we can’t rely on that yet and can’t go on hoping for one of the others to play like 2016 Billy.

If we’re assuming we’ll have slow, poor ball forever we may as well give up completely.

If we continue to produce slow ball that needs a player we do not have to produce workable ball...we're fooked.

It's got to the stage where we just need to pick an 8 and stick with them. Just one of them. Ditto in other slots, too, which is why it would be wonderful if lukewarm boy did go to France.

We also need to find some props or convince Bristol to sack Lam.

The snag is that Dombrandt got the whole 6N without showing he owned the shirt. Then BV was picked as the only 8 for the RWC - arguably one of the biggest selection clangers since Robinson picked a schoolboy at centre. Going back, Jones refused to pick the best club 8 in Simmonds.

I think the back row selection is crucial going forward. Quite how you get balance, pace, turnover capability and line-out prowess into the unit I'm not sure.

6. Martin/Chessum
7. Underhill/Earl
8. Dombrandt/Barbeary/Fisilau

????? Having a lock/backrower at 6 offends many but I can't see an effective alternative unless the 8 offers a true line-out option. I do think that pace is essential for at least two of the three positions. Barbeary has great potential for pacey go-forward off the back of the scrum. Fisilau looks the best all-round package - maybe the perfect fit for the 20 shirt?

I'd still pick J Willis at 7 if he was available and his brother, once fit, needs a chance still.

[Oakboy]

I’m at the point I’m not 100% about any of Dombrandt, Earl or Mercer (with Willis/Fisilau very, very promising but entirely unproven options) but Borthwick definitely needs to recognise some sort of game-plan that can make use of their running talents.

Willis (and I think Fisilau) are the options potentially most capable of creating go-forward off slow ball, but we can’t rely on that yet and can’t go on hoping for one of the others to play like 2016 Billy.

If we’re assuming we’ll have slow, poor ball forever we may as well give up completely.

You don't rate Barbeary?

Is Fisilau a particularly strong carrier? I see him as more of an ‘Exeter 8’ performing the Simmonds role rather than the heavy carrying role Ewers was there for.

Exeter have Roots at 6 for the grunt stuff, together with Vermeulen at 7. Fisilau is a good all-rounder with pace and good hands. He 'punches above his weight' in contact. I think the club has a dilemma with its back-row style because Vintcent is too good to leave out. He's pace rather than grunt of course. Then, there is the Welsh feller (Tshiunza) to come back still - injured, presumably - though he is listed as a lock, I think.

[FKAS]

You don't rate Barbeary?

Is Fisilau a particularly strong carrier? I see him as more of an ‘Exeter 8’ performing the Simmonds role rather than the heavy carrying role Ewers was there for.

Exeter have Roots at 6 for the grunt stuff, together with Vermeulen at 7. Fisilau is a good all-rounder with pace and good hands. He 'punches above his weight' in contact. I think the club has a dilemma with its back-row style because Vintcent is too good to leave out. He's pace rather than grunt of course. Then, there is the Welsh feller (Tshiunza) to come back still - injured, presumably - though he is listed as a lock, I think.

Chiefs lock options are doing pretty well this season also. Pearson, Jenkins and Tuima have all played consistently and then Dunne is due back from injury and as you say Tshiunza can play lock or flank.

Nice squad coming together for Chiefs though there's still a couple of issues to iron out.

[Scrumhead]

I’m at the point I’m not 100% about any of Dombrandt, Earl or Mercer (with Willis/Fisilau very, very promising but entirely unproven options) but Borthwick definitely needs to recognise some sort of game-plan that can make use of their running talents.

Willis (and I think Fisilau) are the options potentially most capable of creating go-forward off slow ball, but we can’t rely on that yet and can’t go on hoping for one of the others to play like 2016 Billy.

If we’re assuming we’ll have slow, poor ball forever we may as well give up completely.

If we continue to produce slow ball that needs a player we do not have to produce workable ball...we're fooked.

It's got to the stage where we just need to pick an 8 and stick with them. Just one of them. Ditto in other slots, too, which is why it would be wonderful if lukewarm boy did go to France.

We also need to find some props or convince Bristol to sack Lam.

The snag is that Dombrandt got the whole 6N without showing he owned the shirt. Then BV was picked as the only 8 for the RWC - arguably one of the biggest selection clangers since Robinson picked a schoolboy at centre. Going back, Jones refused to pick the best club 8 in Simmonds.

I think the back row selection is crucial going forward. Quite how you get balance, pace, turnover capability and line-out prowess into the unit I'm not sure.

6. Martin/Chessum
7. Underhill/Earl
8. Dombrandt/Barbeary/Fisilau

????? Having a lock/backrower at 6 offends many but I can't see an effective alternative unless the 8 offers a true line-out option. I do think that pace is essential for at least two of the three positions. Barbeary has great potential for pacey go-forward off the back of the scrum. Fisilau looks the best all-round package - maybe the perfect fit for the 20 shirt?

I'd still pick J Willis at 7 if he was available and his brother, once fit, needs a chance still.

I’m not sure if I’m misinterpreting your comments here but Fisilau getting elevated to the 20 shirt of the senior side is a huge stretch. He’s looked good but no more so than a plethora of other back row players, most of whom have been performing at that level for much longer than he has.

If you’re saying his ‘all rounder’ style makes him a good fit then possibly some time in the future. Now? No way.

[p/d]

I’m sure you are not saying we go down the path of looking at him once he has 5 or so seasons under his belt, European experience and positive comments from SCW before being considered.

From what I’m seeing I wouldn’t be frightened off by his youthfulness/inexperience when looking at building the next squad

[Which Tyler]

This 6N is about the earliest for him to be being looked at by the international coaches.
Last season was his breakthrough year; this year he's playing with a weight of expectation, and opponents having done their video analysis of his game.
He doesn't appear to have been a flash in the pan, unable to bring his age-grade performance to senior rugby (within reason), or particularly suffering from any other variety of second season syndrome.

Now, whether he's high enough in the queue is a different matter, but I personally, have no issue with him being looked at.

[Oakboy]

This 6N is about the earliest for him to be being looked at by the international coaches.
Last season was his breakthrough year; this year he's playing with a weight of expectation, and opponents having done their video analysis of his game.
He doesn't appear to have been a flash in the pan, unable to bring his age-grade performance to senior rugby (within reason), or particularly suffering from any other variety of second season syndrome.

Now, whether he's high enough in the queue is a different matter, but I personally, have no issue with him being looked at.

I agree and Fisilau may be symptomatic of our past failure to develop juniors if he is NOT looked at. IMO, it is not so much whether player A, B or C is slightly ahead of him NOW. It is about reasoned judgement by SB and his coaching crew on whether or not he has the highest ceiling. He just might excel at international level.

[Scrumhead]

I also ‘have no issue with him being looked at’. However, he feels like a prime candidate for the A squad for me.

When I talk about players I would regard as being ahead of him, I’m talking about the likes of Mercer, Ben Curry, Pearson etc.

Fisilau might end up being better than them but honestly I doubt it.

[fivepointer]

Fisilau should be in the A team.
He's got a lot going for him but it is early.

[twitchy]

Fisilau should be in the A team.
He's got a lot going for him but it is early.

Totally agree.

[francoisfou]

Back to transfer speculation, and the latest rumour concerning Courtney Lawes, is that he went to see the facilities at Provence Rugby in Aix-en-Provence on Saturday (yesterday), but nothing has been agreed.
https://www.rugbyrama.fr/2024/01/07/tra ... 681662.php

For the record, George North has already signed for them from next season.
Provence are currently 3rd in ProD2 and will surely be in the mix for promotion to the Top14.

[FKAS]

Provence also have Tomas Francis and Johnny Gopperth on the books as well as Teimana Harrison, Lawes old club mate maybe telling him how great the life down in the south of France is.

[francoisfou]

Provence also have Tomas Francis and Johnny Gopperth on the books as well as Teimana Harrison, Lawes old club mate maybe telling him how great the life down in the south of France is.

I’ve read that Harrison’s current contract expires at the end of this season with no indication, for the moment, if there’ll be an extension. I think he’s usually in the starting XV so must be looked upon quite favourably, so there may well be two former Saints in the Provence back row next season.

[Mikey Brown]

For whatever reason I always forget Barbeary when talking about backrow options. He and Willis look great as tight carriers. I mentioned Fisilau because I’d got the impression from here that was a strength of his too, but sounds like he belongs more in the all rounders category.

Barbeary is definitely a good shout if we want them to truck it in to the opposition pretty regularly, not that I’m saying that’s all he can do.

I can see the temptation to use Chessum at 6 with Itoje and Martin at lock, but it doesn’t feel like that’s where his future is to me.