Brexit delayed

[Digby]

Even if Corbyn goes will they replace him with anyone credible given the lurch in membership and the pressure being applied by some loons?

[Sandydragon]

Even if Corbyn goes will they replace him with anyone credible given the lurch in membership and the pressure being applied by some loons?

I very much doubt it. At best Ed Mk2 who will appear slightly more credible and perhaps prevent a total meltdown in the polls, but this lurch in membership makes the election of anyone vaguely electable as leader very difficult.

[Mellsblue]

Clive Lewis is positioning himself beautifully. Timing his resignation from the shadow cabinet for maximum impact whilst garnering as much media coverage as possible.

[Sandydragon]

Clive Lewis is positioning himself beautifully. Timing his resignation from the shadow cabinet for maximum impact whilst garnering as much media coverage as possible.

The big problem as I see it is that if someone quits over the 3 line whip for the Brexit vote, then how do they appear to the Labour heartlands outside the South East? London based Labour supporters may be pro-EU, but the northern heartlands are more concerned with the immigration issue than those in London are. Could this cede ground to UKIP?

[Mellsblue]

Clive Lewis is positioning himself beautifully. Timing his resignation from the shadow cabinet for maximum impact whilst garnering as much media coverage as possible.

The big problem as I see it is that if someone quits over the 3 line whip for the Brexit vote, then how do they appear to the Labour heartlands outside the South East? London based Labour supporters may be pro-EU, but the northern heartlands are more concerned with the immigration issue than those in London are. Could this cede ground to UKIP?

That's Labour current problem (ignoring inept leadership and convenient migraines) full stop. They have a tricky tightrope to walk, even more so than the Conservatives. However the party or an individual MP play it they will alienate almost half the party.

[Sandydragon]

Clive Lewis has resigned. So will be annual Labour leadership challenge be early this year?

Who would want the job at the moment anyway. There is a huge mountain to climb before 2020 and potential career suicide for an aspiring politician.

[Donny osmond]

David Milliband come in, your time is up

[Mellsblue]

David Milliband come in, your time is up

He wouldn't stand a chance under current election rules and the current membership.

[Sandydragon]

The left might get bored after an election wipeout and allow a more centralist leader to take over who will spend years rebuilding the party.

[Digby]

The left might get bored after an election wipeout and allow a more centralist leader to take over who will spend years rebuilding the party.

Not sure about David, though it remains seriously annoying they didn't make him the leader over his brother with his idiotic pandering to the unions and all that's led to. Maybe they'd both vote him in and he'd fancy the rebuild, though I don't know if either of those things are true.

[rowan]

[Len]

My mates missus when I asked her about the potential privitisation of the NHS as barter chip to the US

'It was going to happen anyway'

Too stupid to even dignify a response, speechless. Just like when I asked her why she voted leave, when I broke down her argument she conceeded

'I voted leave because I BELIEVE it was the right thing to do'

Great. Vote because you believe something. The real reason is because shes racist and doesn't like foreigners* but is too chicken shit to admit it. Her parents and grandparents have brainwashed her to be petrified of Muslims despite never meeting any. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

It speaks volumes when a bogan from Christchurch is considered a leftie liberal.

*I'm ok for some reason because I'm 'different' AKA white and speak english as a first language.

[Sandydragon]

The immigration issue was largely split into two sections, in my opinion. Those areas of the country where there are few or no immigrants but who have a fear of immigration based on the Daily Mail.

Then there are areas where there have been problems which were not addressed by the UK government. Parts of East Anglia for example where schoo. Teachers found their class sizes expanding rapidly with kids who didn't speak English, or police forces spending a fortune on interpreters that they couldn't afford.

Then, and now, I found it wrong that the UK government could trumpet the economic benefits of immigration but not pass some of that benefit onto communities that were actually impacted. That would have solved many of the wider issues. Labelling anyone who raised the issue as racist just alienated a large number of people who were seeing legitimate problems.

I have plenty of sympathy for people in the second category. Absolutely none for people in the first.

[Digby]

I do wonder how much we'll actually deliver a reduction in migration, though once out of the EU we might have rather more non-whites coming into the UK, which should cheer those who voted to leave no end

[rowan]

Britons could face a backlash

Jeremy Corbyn has condemned Theresa May’s “Hunger Games approach to Brexit” after a document obtained by the Guardian warned that British nationals living on the continent could expect a backlash as a consequence of the government’s treatment of foreigners since the EU referendum.

The leaked EU assessment of the legal impact of Britain’s withdrawal says the 1.2 million Britons living in the EU could pay a penalty for the prime minister’s failure to offer a secure future for EU nationals in the UK.


The internal document drawn up by the European parliament’s legal affairs committee says it will be down to each member state to decide whether British citizens are allowed to carry on living within their respective borders after 2019, but adds: “The fact that it appears to be particularly difficult for foreign nationals, even if married to UK nationals or born in the UK, to acquire permanent residence status or British nationality may colour member states’ approach to this matter.”

Corbyn said the document pointed to “the human cost of a Tory-style Brexit. Families, jobs and homes are all in the balance.” He added: “There must be an end to this Hunger Games approach to Brexit negotiations, which gives no consideration to EU nationals in our country or British nationals living abroad.”

The Labour leader called on the government to make a commitment that EU nationals currently living in the UK would be free to continue to do so, saying the failure to do so amounted to “playing political games with people’s lives”.

As yet the British government has refused to make such a commitment. As a result there has been almost a 50% increase in the number of EU citizens applying for permanent residency documentation since the vote on 23 June. The number of applications rose from 36,555 in the three months to June 2016 to 56,024 in the three months to September, according to the latest figures.

EU nationals say that to obtain permanent residency cards they have to complete an 85-page form requiring huge files of documentation, including P60s for five years, historical utility bills and a diary of all the occasions they have left the country since settling in the UK. Some have received letters inviting them to prepare to leave the country after failing to tick a box on a form.

A cross-party group of the European parliament has established a taskforce to investigate the complaints, and a parliamentary hearing is expected to be announced in the coming days, to which a UK minister will be asked to give evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -in-the-eu

[Mellsblue]

I think it's a bit hypocritical for the EU to say British citizens may face a backlash as when, as far as I'm aware, the EU has failed to confirm that UK nationals will be allowed to stay.

Saying all that, I just wish both sides would people on both sides the security of leave to stay.

Finally, with the way Corbyn has handled Brexit I think it laughable that he has the temerity to lecture anyone else on their handling of the situation. He really should get his own party line sorted before trying to influence others.

[Sandydragon]

Britons could face a backlash

Jeremy Corbyn has condemned Theresa May’s “Hunger Games approach to Brexit” after a document obtained by the Guardian warned that British nationals living on the continent could expect a backlash as a consequence of the government’s treatment of foreigners since the EU referendum.

The leaked EU assessment of the legal impact of Britain’s withdrawal says the 1.2 million Britons living in the EU could pay a penalty for the prime minister’s failure to offer a secure future for EU nationals in the UK.


The internal document drawn up by the European parliament’s legal affairs committee says it will be down to each member state to decide whether British citizens are allowed to carry on living within their respective borders after 2019, but adds: “The fact that it appears to be particularly difficult for foreign nationals, even if married to UK nationals or born in the UK, to acquire permanent residence status or British nationality may colour member states’ approach to this matter.”

Corbyn said the document pointed to “the human cost of a Tory-style Brexit. Families, jobs and homes are all in the balance.” He added: “There must be an end to this Hunger Games approach to Brexit negotiations, which gives no consideration to EU nationals in our country or British nationals living abroad.”

The Labour leader called on the government to make a commitment that EU nationals currently living in the UK would be free to continue to do so, saying the failure to do so amounted to “playing political games with people’s lives”.

As yet the British government has refused to make such a commitment. As a result there has been almost a 50% increase in the number of EU citizens applying for permanent residency documentation since the vote on 23 June. The number of applications rose from 36,555 in the three months to June 2016 to 56,024 in the three months to September, according to the latest figures.

EU nationals say that to obtain permanent residency cards they have to complete an 85-page form requiring huge files of documentation, including P60s for five years, historical utility bills and a diary of all the occasions they have left the country since settling in the UK. Some have received letters inviting them to prepare to leave the country after failing to tick a box on a form.

A cross-party group of the European parliament has established a taskforce to investigate the complaints, and a parliamentary hearing is expected to be announced in the coming days, to which a UK minister will be asked to give evidence.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -in-the-eu

That cuts both ways. Why should the U.K. Government guarantee that until the rights of U.K. Nationals in Europe are sorted out? MB is completely right that it needs sorting out wuickly, but it's a bit laughable that the EU on the one hand demands a collective approach to bargaining but on the other suggests that this is one for individual states.

[rowan]

Galloway calls out false feminists...

George Galloway has called out Britain's 'right-on' feminists in a discussion about the racist and sexist abuse Diane Abbott receives.

Recently, a Conservative party official was suspended after retweeting a racist post aimed at the shadow home secretary.

Then, on Monday, Brexit Secretary David Davis was branded racist after texts in which he appeared to insult her appearance were published, and he later apologised.

George Galloway was speaking to a caller when he demanded to know why feminists were silent on this issue.

Our host said: "The sexist and racist abuse Diane Abbott suffers is a national disgrace. It's a mark of shame on our country.

"What really strikes me is all the 'right-on' feminists in the media, the Labour Party - all of these forever telling us that Brexit equals racism - how little interested they are in racism and sexism when it's being dealt out to someone they don't like.

"They are virtually silent."


Read more at http://talkradio.co.uk/news/george-gall ... pOcpclo.99

[Mellsblue]

I don't understand this. Davis basically said she was ugly - 'I'm not blind' and 'would make a good Optical Express advert' - after being told to 'f**k off' when asking for a hug after she voted with the govt on article 50 (must find out which migraine tablets she uses). Is this now sexist and racist? I don't find her even remotely attractive. Does that make me both racist and sexist? If someone jokingly told me I'd tried to make a pass at her I'd respond with a joke that I don't find her even remotely attractive. I'll go out on a limb and say that I think she's ugly. Are we now not allowed to say if we find someone ugly if they are a different sex and skin colour? I also think David Davis is ugly. Does this make racist and sexist, too?
This wouldn't have even caused a ripple if it involved Andrea Leadsom.

[rowan]

I don't understand this. Davis basically said she was ugly - 'I'm not blind' and 'would make a good Optical Express advert' - after being told to 'f**k off' when asking for a hug after she voted with the govt on article 50 (must find out which migraine tablets she uses). Is this now sexist and racist? I don't find her even remotely attractive. Does that make me both racist and sexist? If someone jokingly told me I'd tried to make a pass at her I'd respond with a joke that I don't find her even remotely attractive. I'll go out on a limb and say that I think she's ugly. Are we now not allowed to say if we find someone ugly if they are a different sex and skin colour? I also think David Davis is ugly. Does this make racist and sexist, too?
This wouldn't have even caused a ripple if it involved Andrea Leadsom.

Do you know of any instances of white or male politicians being ridiculed over their physical appearance?

[Mellsblue]

I don't understand this. Davis basically said she was ugly - 'I'm not blind' and 'would make a good Optical Express advert' - after being told to 'f**k off' when asking for a hug after she voted with the govt on article 50 (must find out which migraine tablets she uses). Is this now sexist and racist? I don't find her even remotely attractive. Does that make me both racist and sexist? If someone jokingly told me I'd tried to make a pass at her I'd respond with a joke that I don't find her even remotely attractive. I'll go out on a limb and say that I think she's ugly. Are we now not allowed to say if we find someone ugly if they are a different sex and skin colour? I also think David Davis is ugly. Does this make racist and sexist, too?
This wouldn't have even caused a ripple if it involved Andrea Leadsom.

Do you know of any instances of white or male politicians being ridiculed over their physical appearance?

Boris Johnson and anyone called pale, make and stale, ie any white, male MP nearing or of retirement age. There are plenty.

[Mellsblue]

I don't understand this. Davis basically said she was ugly - 'I'm not blind' and 'would make a good Optical Express advert' - after being told to 'f**k off' when asking for a hug after she voted with the govt on article 50 (must find out which migraine tablets she uses). Is this now sexist and racist? I don't find her even remotely attractive. Does that make me both racist and sexist? If someone jokingly told me I'd tried to make a pass at her I'd respond with a joke that I don't find her even remotely attractive. I'll go out on a limb and say that I think she's ugly. Are we now not allowed to say if we find someone ugly if they are a different sex and skin colour? I also think David Davis is ugly. Does this make racist and sexist, too?
This wouldn't have even caused a ripple if it involved Andrea Leadsom.

The racism allegation is perplexing, unless of course this Davis guy has a history of racially questionable comments and/or actions. I'm not familiar with the guy, but then, I have to admit that I don't exactly keep tabs on British MPs.

The sexism part though, is quite clear as it falls into a depressingly familiar pattern of female public figures being judged and criticised for their physical appearance rather than their character. Read up on this shit, bro.

I don't need to read on it. It was a private text in which someone joked to Davis that he heard he'd chatted up Abbott, Davis replies that he finds her ugly.
As I've said to Rowan, it happens to both sexes and there is as much of it, if not more, with woman attacking woman. There were plenty of pieces with Cameron going for a jog and his beer belly sticking out through his sweat soaked T shirt, and plenty about Osborne and his 5:2 diet and new Caesar haircut. Nobody moaning about that.
There is plenty of sexism in the work place that is actually incredibly serious and moaning about stuff like this just gives the moaners the ammunition to moan that it's PC gone mad.
This is a smokescreen to deflect from migrainegate (that's for you Mikey Brown) and the fact she's generally useless. By the way, I think she's useless because she's U ale to defend her position whenever I've seen her questioned on tv, not because I think she's ugly.

[Mellsblue]

Do you know of any instances of white or male politicians being ridiculed over their physical appearance?

Boris Johnson and anyone called pale, make and stale, ie any white, male MP nearing or of retirement age. There are plenty.

Let's put it this way: one involves punching upwards, the other involves kicking downwards. Care to guess which one the ex-Bullingdon Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer would fit into?

That's ok then, is it? Rank hypocrisy.

[Sandydragon]

I don't understand this. Davis basically said she was ugly - 'I'm not blind' and 'would make a good Optical Express advert' - after being told to 'f**k off' when asking for a hug after she voted with the govt on article 50 (must find out which migraine tablets she uses). Is this now sexist and racist? I don't find her even remotely attractive. Does that make me both racist and sexist? If someone jokingly told me I'd tried to make a pass at her I'd respond with a joke that I don't find her even remotely attractive. I'll go out on a limb and say that I think she's ugly. Are we now not allowed to say if we find someone ugly if they are a different sex and skin colour? I also think David Davis is ugly. Does this make racist and sexist, too?
This wouldn't have even caused a ripple if it involved Andrea Leadsom.

Do you know of any instances of white or male politicians being ridiculed over their physical appearance?

Neil Kinnock. A bald Welsh windbag.
William Hague. Bald.
Ed Milligan. Geek who couldn't eat a bacon sandwich .

[Mellsblue]

Let's put it this way: one involves punching upwards, the other involves kicking downwards. Care to guess which one the ex-Bullingdon Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer would fit into?

That's ok then, is it? Rank hypocrisy.

Because no one is as underprivileged as white men.

I'll say once again, feel free to read up on white male privilege.

Honestly, if you can't see how fucked up it is that a white male sees fit to immediately attack a black woman over her appearance because she had the temerity to tell him to fuck off, I don't know what else can be said to you.

Have a look at the % of white men going to uni and get back to me.

However, that misses the point. The jump from she's ugly to he's sexist is ridiculous. As I've said, there are so many serious cases of sexism, racism, homophobia etc etc (see the current issues in the synod that will probably get less airtime than Davis' texts) that to make a song and dance about this belittles the serious issues.

As for him 'immediately' attacking her. It was a joking, private text later that evening. A text conversation he didn't even initiate. If he'd immediately responded 'I wouldn't hug you anyway you fat bitch' I could understand the uproar but this is nothing.

Perhaps you could call me a c**t?