RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:
yes, but you'd bracketed him with Long and Green .

its the world xv point I'm driving at tbh, with respect to SCW.

Once you're off the pace you're nowhere!

And I agree on the 1st XV, though I don't see it was quite there when Clive took over and instead it took a while to emerge- mind the record should also show it took me a while to like Hill as an England player so what do I know

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:
yes, but you'd bracketed him with Long and Green .

its the world xv point I'm driving at tbh, with respect to SCW.

Once you're off the pace you're nowhere!

And I agree on the 1st XV, though I don't see it was quite there when Clive took over and instead it took a while to emerge- mind the record should also show it took me a while to like Hill as an England player so what do I know

didn't say it was, but when the core on day 1 includes Leonard, Johnson, Back, Hill, Dallaglio, Bracken, Greenwood, Guscott, Healey, you have a decent start (in hindsight of course )

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:
yes, but you'd bracketed him with Long and Green .

its the world xv point I'm driving at tbh, with respect to SCW.

Once you're off the pace you're nowhere!

And I agree on the 1st XV, though I don't see it was quite there when Clive took over and instead it took a while to emerge- mind the record should also show it took me a while to like Hill as an England player so what do I know

didn't say it was, but when the core on day 1 includes Leonard, Johnson, Back, Hill, Dallaglio, Bracken, Greenwood, Guscott, Healey, you have a decent start (in hindsight of course )

That was a large part of the core from day 1, though Healey wasn't a core player, back then I don't know if Clive mightn't have been more inclined to say Stimpson wasn't the other winger to watch. Also Guscott was never really a core player for Clive, partly injuries and he just wasn't the same at that point, though obviously he still had his charm

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
Once you're off the pace you're nowhere!

And I agree on the 1st XV, though I don't see it was quite there when Clive took over and instead it took a while to emerge- mind the record should also show it took me a while to like Hill as an England player so what do I know

didn't say it was, but when the core on day 1 includes Leonard, Johnson, Back, Hill, Dallaglio, Bracken, Greenwood, Guscott, Healey, you have a decent start (in hindsight of course )

That was a large part of the core from day 1, though Healey wasn't a core player, back then I don't know if Clive mightn't have been more inclined to say Stimpson wasn't the other winger to watch. Also Guscott was never really a core player for Clive, partly injuries and he just wasn't the same at that point, though obviously he still had his charm

well he was fresh off his third Lions tour, where he was very good, but injured. He played 18 times for SCW between 98 and 99, when he retired after another groin injury- so pretty core, as he didnt even go on TFH, til the 99 RWC

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... eturn.html

ermmmmmmm Okay.

Although didn't Naholo do something similar?

Mail in random fetishising of foreign culture shocker!

Sounds like a non-story to me - he's only coming back a couple of weeks early and never attributes that to the witch-doctor.

Puja

FFS. I don’t even want to think about Tuilagi as a real prospect playing for England again until he’s made it through the anthems unscathed.

Mikey Brown wrote:FFS. I don’t even want to think about Tuilagi as a real prospect playing for England again until he’s made it through the anthems unscathed.

I think you’re asking a bit much. If he managed to put his kit on without puncturing his lung I’d be happy.

First player ever to be injured on coach to stadium? Falls over and damages knee trying to open window.

I can just see the headlines now: "Manu Tuilagi is out of the Six Nations after ripping a vocal cord when answering the phone call from Eddie Jones."

Puja

Tuilagi is a special talent if fit. IMO, the fitness starting point in his case has to be a minimum of 10 successive club games on form and unscathed. Only then, is it fair and reasonable to suggest to the likes of JJ, Daly and Slade that their shirts are at risk. The worst case scenario is Tuilagi back for 5 or 6 England games (out of the 12 between now and the RWC) only to break down again. We are at the point where continuity counts. The team unit is more important than the individual, no matter how talented or destructive. I suspect that Tuilagi's international future, if he has one, is as an impact replacement. That way his individual presence can be useful while the integrity of the starting XV is built.

Oakboy wrote:Tuilagi is a special talent if fit. IMO, the fitness starting point in his case has to be a minimum of 10 successive club games on form and unscathed. Only then, is it fair and reasonable to suggest to the likes of JJ, Daly and Slade that their shirts are at risk. The worst case scenario is Tuilagi back for 5 or 6 England games (out of the 12 between now and the RWC) only to break down again. We are at the point where continuity counts. The team unit is more important than the individual, no matter how talented or destructive. I suspect that Tuilagi's international future, if he has one, is as an impact replacement. That way his individual presence can be useful while the integrity of the starting XV is built.

Good post. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Daly and May are apparently now possibles for the Argentina game having recovered better than expected. That would make a hell of a difference to our options!

Puja

Also Dunn, Isiekwe, Mercer, and Simmonds are not going to be travelling to train with the Welsh, and instead "will remain at Pennyhill Park on a separate training schedule." Nothing to suggest that they're injured and the common theme of all of them is that they're uncapped or effectively so (in the case of Isiekwe). Shame, as I would've thought there was stuff that those could learn from the experience, but it looks like Eddie's planned this just as high-intensity training, rather than developing the newbies.

Also suggests that Simmonds's chances of starting any of the games are relatively slender if he's being put in the group with the rookies.

Puja

Brian Moore was saying how he thought this training session was pointless. Even if they have a proper ref attending they aren't playing a game so every front rower will just collapse rather than go backwards because a "penalty" is meaningless.

Why would they collapse if going backwards is meaningless?

Puja wrote:Also Dunn, Isiekwe, Mercer, and Simmonds are not going to be travelling to train with the Welsh, and instead "will remain at Pennyhill Park on a separate training schedule." Nothing to suggest that they're injured and the common theme of all of them is that they're uncapped or effectively so (in the case of Isiekwe). Shame, as I would've thought there was stuff that those could learn from the experience, but it looks like Eddie's planned this just as high-intensity training, rather than developing the newbies.

Also suggests that Simmonds's chances of starting any of the games are relatively slender if he's being put in the group with the rookies.

Puja

Eddie's first focus has been on conditioning, so perhaps he sees these 4 as lacking somewhat. Again, doesn't bode well for Simmonds. But where does that leave us with 8 cover? Underhill or Curry? Neither are exactly big carriers...

Puja wrote:Also Dunn, Isiekwe, Mercer, and Simmonds are not going to be travelling to train with the Welsh, and instead "will remain at Pennyhill Park on a separate training schedule." Nothing to suggest that they're injured and the common theme of all of them is that they're uncapped or effectively so (in the case of Isiekwe). Shame, as I would've thought there was stuff that those could learn from the experience, but it looks like Eddie's planned this just as high-intensity training, rather than developing the newbies.

Also suggests that Simmonds's chances of starting any of the games are relatively slender if he's being put in the group with the rookies.

Puja

It would seem so ... who knows? It’s nearly 3 weeks until the Samoa game which is probably the one he’d be most likely to start, so he has time to impress.

seems odd to me to hold back the 4 players. I'm fairly sure at least 2 of them (Dunn & Simmonds) will have roles in the coming games. i cant see how missing out on the session this morning helps them, or England in assessing their readiness for action.
Eddie has spoken glowingly of Dunn saying how hard he was pushing the other 2 hookers, yet misses out. Given the back row selections made i'd have thought Simmonds an ideal bench man at the very least. Isiekwe may play a small part against Samoa and i can see Mercer is there to acclimatise so i sort of understand their omissions. But the other 2?

twitchy wrote:Brian Moore was saying how he thought this training session was pointless. Even if they have a proper ref attending they aren't playing a game so every front rower will just collapse rather than go backwards because a "penalty" is meaningless.

Oh aye, I'm sure Eddie and Borthers will be thrilled by a player who decides to waste everyone's time and this opportunity by collapsing repeatedly.

Puja

I would guess the 4 missing out are purely down to numbers. We’ve taken, I believe, 6 front row, 4 locks and 6 back row...that’s 2 packs. Sort of makes sense if you want an intense session with nobody standing around.

Timbo wrote:I would guess the 4 missing out are purely down to numbers. We’ve taken, I believe, 6 front row, 4 locks and 6 back row...that’s 2 packs. Sort of makes sense if you want an intense session with nobody standing around.

Well sure, if you want to bring logic and facts and basic mathematics into it.

Puja

Hopefully they’re on the same pagez

Youngs - “we want to attack like no other team in the world”

Ford - “It’s not about re-inventing the wheel, but about being better at what we do”

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41887383

England and Wales' joint training session 'had a bit of an edge', says Neal Hatley
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41889132

Itoje did not go to the England vs Wales training session and was left on an individual training regime. Hopefully that's because he's being given a rest this weekend.

Puja