RugbyRebels

Beasties wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't even know who two of those guys are.

He dropped the T out of JTH?

JTH outside Te'o. Love it.

Timbo wrote:Don't care about Hartley's injured back, it'll be a travesty if George doesn't start the South Africa game. Regardless of test experience the bloke is genuinely the best hooker in the northern hemisphere.

If George is that good why did he not start yesterday? I agree with you about him to a large extent but he has to prove to EJ that the pack is better as a unit with him at 2 than it is with Hartley there. How he does that just based on club form is the big problem. Being selected at 16 won't help.

Oakboy wrote:

Timbo wrote:Don't care about Hartley's injured back, it'll be a travesty if George doesn't start the South Africa game. Regardless of test experience the bloke is genuinely the best hooker in the northern hemisphere.

If George is that good why did he not start yesterday? I agree with you about him to a large extent but he has to prove to EJ that the pack is better as a unit with him at 2 than it is with Hartley there. How he does that just based on club form is the big problem. Being selected at 16 won't help.

Saracens operate a fairly sensible rotation policy - he's their first choice, but they rested him this week and last to keep him fresh. I'll bet you money he'll be starting against Toulon.

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't even know who two of those guys are.

Fecking android!

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Timbo wrote:Don't care about Hartley's injured back, it'll be a travesty if George doesn't start the South Africa game. Regardless of test experience the bloke is genuinely the best hooker in the northern hemisphere.

If George is that good why did he not start yesterday? I agree with you about him to a large extent but he has to prove to EJ that the pack is better as a unit with him at 2 than it is with Hartley there. How he does that just based on club form is the big problem. Being selected at 16 won't help.

Saracens operate a fairly sensible rotation policy - he's their first choice, but they rested him this week and last to keep him fresh. I'll bet you money he'll be starting against Toulon.

Puja

Fair point but is the Toulon game that much bigger than the Wasps match in the circumstances? With his England hat on George would have wanted to start, I'd bet. At the team announcement stage he would have expected to have been up against Taylor, wouldn't he? The two Vuni's and the 2nd row got to make their statements in a crunch game against top English opposition. George missed out. Odd.

Oakboy wrote:

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
If George is that good why did he not start yesterday? I agree with you about him to a large extent but he has to prove to EJ that the pack is better as a unit with him at 2 than it is with Hartley there. How he does that just based on club form is the big problem. Being selected at 16 won't help.

Saracens operate a fairly sensible rotation policy - he's their first choice, but they rested him this week and last to keep him fresh. I'll bet you money he'll be starting against Toulon.

Puja

Fair point but is the Toulon game that much bigger than the Wasps match in the circumstances? With his England hat on George would have wanted to start, I'd bet. At the team announcement stage he would have expected to have been up against Taylor, wouldn't he? The two Vuni's and the 2nd row got to make their statements in a crunch game against top English opposition. George missed out. Odd.

Yep, Toulon is bigger. Lose that and they need to win the home game to top the group. Lose to Wasps and they have two thirds of a season to finish in the top two. The other consideration is that George went through the Eng training camp so might not have been at 100%.

Which Tyler wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't even know who two of those guys are.

Fecking android!

Maybe I'm not as up to date on our crop of players as I thought. There's no need for that though.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I don't even know who two of those guys are.

Fecking android!

Maybe I'm not as up to date on our crop of players as I thought. There's no need for that though.

You'll probably deserve it eventually. Put it in yer back pocket for later. WT will go into meltdown at some point this season.

I suspect Rhodes is looking around thinking I took my man and simply wonders why the other Sarries defenders didn't take their man off the ball

Interesting that Maitland commits the same sort of tackle that Bassett later did on him - and got a yellow card for.

Brilliant from Cips there - but I thought he was actually quite average for the rest of the game. One missed touch from a penalty saw Sarries come back up the other end and score a try.

I'm not aiming this purely at you, Peej, but is Cipriani so shrouded in hype/history that he is judged by a different standard these days?

I find it very hard to be objective about him, but it seems he can have a "poor" game (misses an important tackle or a kick, only one or two moments of attacking brilliance, very steady otherwise) that would be considered a great game for others.

I'm not calling for him to be ahead of Ford, for the record.

You might be on to something there, MB.

But in all honestly, while I highlighted that one error, in the Sarries game his kicking was a bit ropey across the board, and he threw some poor passes and dropped off a couple of tackles. Maybe other players would get graded higher for a similar performance - Loz seems to have attracted a lot of plaudits for some (admittedly good) defence despite missing straightforward kicks and doing little with front-foot ball - but if you're in the chasing back looking for a start I think you need to really stand out for as many good things as possible. So I reckon that its maybe about the position's Cips is in in terms of England selection than who he is, per se.

Oh, and Mike Williams has broken his arm so is out of the AIs too.

Looks as though Itoje will be in the back row!

Peej wrote:Oh, and Mike Williams has broken his arm so is out of the AIs too.

Looks as though Itoje will be in the back row!

The next question might be should Itoje play in a Left and right flanker system or openside and blindside?

Thats tough on Williams. 3rd break in a year. I'm no medic but i wonder if his career might be at risk?

The back row come the AI's will be composed of whoever is left standing it seems.

Updated now we're done with the first batch of Prem games; and 1/4 of the season gone...

Mikey Brown wrote:I'm not aiming this purely at you, Peej, but is Cipriani so shrouded in hype/history that he is judged by a different standard these days?

I find it very hard to be objective about him, but it seems he can have a "poor" game (misses an important tackle or a kick, only one or two moments of attacking brilliance, very steady otherwise) that would be considered a great game for others.

I'm not calling for him to be ahead of Ford, for the record.

Don't think Cipriani ever regained the searing pace he had after he totally mangled his ankle several years ago. During his first spell at Wasps he was electric. He's playing pretty well these days, with the occasional touch of brilliance and with more consistency, but does seen to lack the real flair of old. He could be a useful man on the England bench as a potential game breaker.

Have to agree Spiff, has lost that really searing acceleration he had but as you identified has been far more consistent with some flashes of brilliance. He is never going to be a 'steady Eddy' but he can do things that Owen Farrell wouldn't be able to. I think he is often judged far too harshly for whatever reason.(some of it very subjective)

He still has a lot of pace for a FH without quite being his younger self. Only Loz (ironically) out of all of Eng's FHs has that sort of pace.

Not sure where best to post this, but Jonny May is back for Glaws tomorrow

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/37617695

Seems pretty relevant. I imagine it'll take some time after so long out but it's great to see. Though May more than some really needs that old pace to do what he does best.

By all accounts his rehabilitation has gone well, pucka specialists involved. Fingers crossed he hasn't lost a yard.

Gloskarlos wrote:By all accounts his rehabilitation has gone well, pucka specialists involved. Fingers crossed he hasn't lost a yard.

These chaps?

Aye. they look like they provide morale don't they?