England v SA- same larger squad

[Banquo]

Surely Vincent Koch’s been in the country long enough now to qualify?

Isn't he normally in SA's first choice 23?

[Puja]

Surely Vincent Koch’s been in the country long enough now to qualify?

Isn't he normally in SA's first choice 23?

And currently in France. And residency is the one criteria specifically excluded from the "swapping countries" rules.

Aside from that...

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

I am a bit confused, are England's resources sufficient to expect domination or do they need to look for saffa offcuts?

[FKAS]

Is Julian White still knocking about?

He's knocking about on his 100 acre cattle farm these days.

[Beasties]

Surely Vincent Koch’s been in the country long enough now to qualify?

Isn't he normally in SA's first choice 23?

You’re no fun.

[p/d]

Mako shouldn’t have been making the squad, let alone starting. A proper little technical nasty fecker should have been part of the squad before we even started discussing selection for the AI. Ditto a proper enforcer in the second row and an out and out 7

[ad_tigger]

Yeah, but who, who and who?

[p/d]

No idea. But give me 5 years, £750k and all the scouting perks and I would hope it wasn’t a question that need be asked

[Beasties]

Mako shouldn’t have been making the squad, let alone starting. A proper little technical nasty fecker should have been part of the squad before we even started discussing selection for the AI. Ditto a proper enforcer in the second row and an out and out 7

Sounds like a job for jngf.

[Oakboy]

Mako shouldn’t have been making the squad, let alone starting. A proper little technical nasty fecker should have been part of the squad before we even started discussing selection for the AI. Ditto a proper enforcer in the second row and an out and out 7

Sounds like a job for jngf.

Nasty fecker or enforcer?

[FKAS]

Yeah, but who, who and who?

The tighthead lock, can't really have an 'enforcer' these days as there's too many cameras and a TMO, looks to be Ribbans. Just need to bed him in over the 6N. Openside there's options but we had Willis in the squad alongside Curry both great opensides.

No idea where a "proper nasty little technical fekker" of a loosehead is going to come from though. Our best bet Vs South Africa would have been to stop dropping the ball every third pass/carry. No scrum put ins for SA, no scrum problems for England.

[Banquo]

Yeah, but who, who and who?

The tighthead lock, can't really have an 'enforcer' these days as there's too many cameras and a TMO, looks to be Ribbans. Just need to bed him in over the 6N. Openside there's options but we had Willis in the squad alongside Curry both great opensides.

No idea where a "proper nasty little technical fekker" of a loosehead is going to come from though. Our best bet Vs South Africa would have been to stop dropping the ball every third pass/carry. No scrum put ins for SA, no scrum problems for England.

well quite. I don't think you can accuse Eddie of not turning over every stone to find players- maybe he hasn't gone the full Dwyer and converted them from other sports- and we certainly lack in a number of areas. With Ribbans, for example, he got him into the squad when he could....and he then got a red card and subsequently has had a chronic back injury (which isn't going away, it has to be carefully managed). And more cracks were exposed on Saturday than we thought- all of our front rows struggled pretty badly in various ways. That's without talking about midfield issues, and what's the best back 3.
The other point in your post is about the sheer number of basic and unforced errors our players make- and that's been the case for a long while now, even when we've been winning. That's what I'm really bothered about (other than some marginal selection calls), and why I'm thinking a change at the top might need to be now, and a bit of culture change.

[Mr Mwenda]

How far back does the fickwittery go? I am struggling to remember when total thickness crept into the England squad. I have a feeling it predates Jones but there were an awful lot of years since 2003 that I have largely tried to forget...

[p/d]

So much hope, yet before we know it we will be talking about how long Jones' contract should be extended for and what Ewels' favourite colour is before Mellsblue sends a welcome back bouquet to HQ

[Mellsblue]

The only bouquet I’m sending is one to put on the coffin of Jones’s England career.

[Oakboy]

Yeah, but who, who and who?

The tighthead lock, can't really have an 'enforcer' these days as there's too many cameras and a TMO, looks to be Ribbans. Just need to bed him in over the 6N. Openside there's options but we had Willis in the squad alongside Curry both great opensides.

No idea where a "proper nasty little technical fekker" of a loosehead is going to come from though. Our best bet Vs South Africa would have been to stop dropping the ball every third pass/carry. No scrum put ins for SA, no scrum problems for England.

well quite. I don't think you can accuse Eddie of not turning over every stone to find players- maybe he hasn't gone the full Dwyer and converted them from other sports- and we certainly lack in a number of areas. With Ribbans, for example, he got him into the squad when he could....and he then got a red card and subsequently has had a chronic back injury (which isn't going away, it has to be carefully managed). And more cracks were exposed on Saturday than we thought- all of our front rows struggled pretty badly in various ways. That's without talking about midfield issues, and what's the best back 3.
The other point in your post is about the sheer number of basic and unforced errors our players make- and that's been the case for a long while now, even when we've been winning. That's what I'm really bothered about (other than some marginal selection calls), and why I'm thinking a change at the top might need to be now, and a bit of culture change.

I think the culture change that you correctly mention cannot be separated from the discipline issues. IMO, most of the culprits are not thick basically, just misdirected, frustrated and/or trying too hard within a system they are not happy with.

As regards Jones trying loads of players, I'm not sure all contenders have been given a fair crack (e.g. Willis) and those he has persevered with are odd choices (e.g. Ewels). One aside; I'd have picked Marler as my 1st choice LH starter for years. I wonder if his 'issues' would have diminished had he felt he WAS first-choice. Who knows? I just think it's a classic case of bad management in terms of not maximising resources.

You used the phrase earlier about making the team 'more than the sum of its parts'. IMO, despite an early unbeaten run, Jones has been consistently poor at achieving that aim.

[FKAS]

The tighthead lock, can't really have an 'enforcer' these days as there's too many cameras and a TMO, looks to be Ribbans. Just need to bed him in over the 6N. Openside there's options but we had Willis in the squad alongside Curry both great opensides.

No idea where a "proper nasty little technical fekker" of a loosehead is going to come from though. Our best bet Vs South Africa would have been to stop dropping the ball every third pass/carry. No scrum put ins for SA, no scrum problems for England.

well quite. I don't think you can accuse Eddie of not turning over every stone to find players- maybe he hasn't gone the full Dwyer and converted them from other sports- and we certainly lack in a number of areas. With Ribbans, for example, he got him into the squad when he could....and he then got a red card and subsequently has had a chronic back injury (which isn't going away, it has to be carefully managed). And more cracks were exposed on Saturday than we thought- all of our front rows struggled pretty badly in various ways. That's without talking about midfield issues, and what's the best back 3.
The other point in your post is about the sheer number of basic and unforced errors our players make- and that's been the case for a long while now, even when we've been winning. That's what I'm really bothered about (other than some marginal selection calls), and why I'm thinking a change at the top might need to be now, and a bit of culture change.

I think the culture change that you correctly mention cannot be separated from the discipline issues. IMO, most of the culprits are not thick basically, just misdirected, frustrated and/or trying too hard within a system they are not happy with.

As regards Jones trying loads of players, I'm not sure all contenders have been given a fair crack (e.g. Willis) and those he has persevered with are odd choices (e.g. Ewels). One aside; I'd have picked Marler as my 1st choice LH starter for years. I wonder if his 'issues' would have diminished had he felt he WAS first-choice. Who knows? I just think it's a classic case of bad management in terms of not maximising resources.

You used the phrase earlier about making the team 'more than the sum of its parts'. IMO, despite an early unbeaten run, Jones has been consistently poor at achieving that aim.

As you say he's had his issues and picked up some stupid bans whilst in an England shirt. Might well limit the trust his coaches have with him. Last Autumn he stated he was fit to play after his positive Covid test only to later state on his own podcast he was nowhere near and had only said he was in order to get the appearance fee.

He's England's best scrummaging loosehead but he's not particularly reliable unfortunately.

[Banquo]

The tighthead lock, can't really have an 'enforcer' these days as there's too many cameras and a TMO, looks to be Ribbans. Just need to bed him in over the 6N. Openside there's options but we had Willis in the squad alongside Curry both great opensides.

No idea where a "proper nasty little technical fekker" of a loosehead is going to come from though. Our best bet Vs South Africa would have been to stop dropping the ball every third pass/carry. No scrum put ins for SA, no scrum problems for England.

well quite. I don't think you can accuse Eddie of not turning over every stone to find players- maybe he hasn't gone the full Dwyer and converted them from other sports- and we certainly lack in a number of areas. With Ribbans, for example, he got him into the squad when he could....and he then got a red card and subsequently has had a chronic back injury (which isn't going away, it has to be carefully managed). And more cracks were exposed on Saturday than we thought- all of our front rows struggled pretty badly in various ways. That's without talking about midfield issues, and what's the best back 3.
The other point in your post is about the sheer number of basic and unforced errors our players make- and that's been the case for a long while now, even when we've been winning. That's what I'm really bothered about (other than some marginal selection calls), and why I'm thinking a change at the top might need to be now, and a bit of culture change.

I think the culture change that you correctly mention cannot be separated from the discipline issues. IMO, most of the culprits are not thick basically, just misdirected, frustrated and/or trying too hard within a system they are not happy with.

As regards Jones trying loads of players, I'm not sure all contenders have been given a fair crack (e.g. Willis) and those he has persevered with are odd choices (e.g. Ewels). One aside; I'd have picked Marler as my 1st choice LH starter for years. I wonder if his 'issues' would have diminished had he felt he WAS first-choice. Who knows? I just think it's a classic case of bad management in terms of not maximising resources.

You used the phrase earlier about making the team 'more than the sum of its parts'. IMO, despite an early unbeaten run, Jones has been consistently poor at achieving that aim.

I think they are a bit thick, and tbh Jones quite likes that. Most contenders have been given a chance (Willis is still relatively soon back from back to back bad injuries...I'd have played him tho). I don't think Marler has been managed badly, the reverse tbh. And to be clear, I am now agreeing that Jones is now guilty of not getting the best out of a middling group of players, and that's why I said change at the top might be needed- him and leadership group ('s responsibilities).

[p/d]

Jones just reverts back to type. Flutters with being an 'out of the box' thinker for effect, then turns to things like trundle pants at 8 snd shoe horning a lock into the back row whilst the likes of Willis and (I hate to say this) especially Earl can and are tearing up trees.

I thought it would take a bad injury to make Curry look average, and yet Jones managed it without so much of a nick

[Mellsblue]

I thought it would take a bad injury to make Curry look average, and yet Jones managed it without so much of a nick

[Banquo]

Selection is a tad meh, but its not the thing to focus on tbh. Though its an easier thing to do.

[Mellsblue]

Just seen this elsewhere

Some talk about Wayne Barnes, was supposed to be receiving an award for 100 reffed Internarional games at Twickenham today. Has decided not receive it due to SA fans.

Interesting to see Hartley say EJ said despite everything they never complain about the ref.

Is there going to be point where refs refuse to do SA matches?

First para is fact, according to a Times journo - said he’d talked to Barnes directly. He also said that that there are talks amongst refs about refusing to officiate SA matches.

Apols for the self-quote…

[FKAS]

It's horrible stuff. Having a go at the referee isn't on but there's trolls out there and every village has their idiot. Threatening his wife on social media and then threatening the kids is just abhorrent. You can only hope the police forces for the various nations band together and go after the low life pieces of shit that do this.