RugbyRebels

Shame for Mako, hope Slade out doesn’t mean Porter in.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:09 pm Shame for Mako, hope Slade out doesn’t mean Porter in.

Nah will mean Marchant in. Porter is probably already back in Leicestershire.

If it's a straight choice between Marchant and Slade, fair enough. But, if it means relying on Tuilagi to be fit or Farrell playing at 12, I think Slade's omission is ludicrous.

I have similar reservations about Billy V. If, as is rumoured, he will be the only 8, the decision could rebound badly.

The rumoured selection has turned the likelihood of us being a grim watch into a certainty. It's as if matching Argentina's physicality has become the main aim.

I'm a bit confused by Earl's spot too. When did he last play? Have I completely forgotten a recent appearance? Yes he's versatile, but again with Ludlam, Wilis and Curry all having played 6, 7 and 8 I just don't see why that even matters.

Not taking a second 8 with Billy's recent England form, and having just had his leg reassembled, seems like a particularly unnecessary risk but Ludlam did cover there quite well in the 6 nations.

I'm not sure I follow your point about Marchant vs Slade. As bad as Tuilagi's injury record is, we're 'relying' on anyone who is in the squad to be fit, aren't we? I'm hoping we're viewing him as a 12 only, with Lawrence able to play both but likely to start at 12.

Dan ahead of Blamire is interesting too.

I'm very curious to know what Borthwick's plans for Daly are. I'd love to think he is taking Malins' role.

Genge
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Chessum
Lawes
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Ford
Malins
Farrell
Tuilagi
Watson
Steward

Doesn't really feel like we've moved past 2019.

Only just read the article stating Tuilagi has another groin injury, so I take that back. I would think he hasn't even been training then? This is the same injury that has defined his whole career, no?

It is.

Oh gods, Marchant is retained for the crash ball ?

Danno wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:28 am Genge
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Chessum
Lawes
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Ford
Malins
Farrell
Tuilagi
Watson
Steward

Doesn't really feel like we've moved past 2019.

I can't believe we've ended up with Youngs back in the driving seat at 9. It really felt like we'd moved on and was quite pleased with Mitchell's work from the bench in the 6 nations.

I love to watch Danny Care play, and what Harlequins do allow his abundant mistakes to be made up for in other areas, but it just doesn't make any sense for England at this stage in his career. He barely seems trusted to play a full half anyway. I just don't get it.

Danno wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:32 am It is.

Oh gods, Marchant is retained for the crash ball ?

See 12. Lawrence 13. Marchant I actually quite like the sound of, but I'd be amazed if we give that a go and stick with it rather than chopping and changing every 55 minutes.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:08 am If it's a straight choice between Marchant and Slade, fair enough. But, if it means relying on Tuilagi to be fit or Farrell playing at 12, I think Slade's omission is ludicrous.

I have similar reservations about Billy V. If, as is rumoured, he will be the only 8, the decision could rebound badly.

The rumoured selection has turned the likelihood of us being a grim watch into a certainty. It's as if matching Argentina's physicality has become the main aim.

I thought Slade was out injured, but may have that wrong

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:17 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 8:09 pm Shame for Mako, hope Slade out doesn’t mean Porter in.

Nah will mean Marchant in. Porter is probably already back in Leicestershire.

If he managed to catch the train

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... -world-cup

Forwards
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 100 caps)***

Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 45 caps)*

Theo Dan (Saracens, 1 cap)

Ben Earl (Saracens, 15 caps)

Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 49 caps)*

Jamie George (Saracens, 77 caps)**

Maro Itoje (Saracens, 67 caps)*

Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 97 caps)***

Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 20 caps)*

Joe Marler (Harlequins, 79 caps)**

George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)

David Ribbans (Toulon, 6 caps)

Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 3 caps)

Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 62 caps)*

Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 26 caps)

Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 68 caps) **

Jack Walker (Harlequins, 3 caps)

Jack Willis (Toulouse, 10 caps)

Backs
Henry Arundell (Racing 92, 7 caps)

Danny Care (Harlequins, 88 caps)*

Elliot Daly (Saracens, 57 caps)*

Owen Farrell (Saracens, 106 caps)**

George Ford (Sale Sharks, 82 caps)**

Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)

Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 19 caps)

Joe Marchant (Stade Francais, 16 caps)

Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 22 caps)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)

Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 51 caps)**

Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)

Anthony Watson (unattached, 55 caps)**

Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 122 caps)***

I was trying hard to be optimistic before Saturday. Now, I think it's almost impossible.

Not really sure what Surprisingly Bejazzled has in mind as the masterplan here.

I'm assuming Ludlum and Earl are covering 8? No one can think it's a decent use of Curry's skills anymore.

It turns out he'd only dropped Youngs up to this point as he knew he was taking him to the world cup regardless?

Front row. Think Val R-R has been hard done to and Blamire must be very disappointed. Dan didnt impress on Saturday but does offer something a bit different.
Lock. Fair enough. Chessum being fit is a major boost. Martin can cover 6 if required. Ribbans offers greater handling and mobility than Hill.
Back row. Tough on Pearson and T Willis but their time will come. Billy V is a bit of a punt, hoping he can get back to something like his best. Earl is an odd one. He is yet to start a game for England but makes it ahead of others who have?
SH. Well, once Care was called up and retained at the expense of Mitchell it was obvious the way the wind was blowing. A really underwhelming trio.
FH. Like SH once it was announced 3 would go we knew where we'd end up.
Centre. Tough on Slade but he hasnt ever really made the shirt his own. Marchant offers a wing option. The obligatory finger crossing for Manu's fitness must now commence.
Back 3. Arundell offers some excitement and genuine pace. Watson and Daly were always odds on to go. Malins yet to really impress and seems to be a coaches favourite. Freeman very unlucky to my mind.

Classic Borthers.

Danno wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:32 am It is.

Oh gods, Marchant is retained for the crash ball ?

Manu had multiple injuries, knees, hammy, horrifically torn pec. The groin was a longer injury that was a difficult one to get right, but like Jonny he didn't just have one area that was fucked.

Kind of to be expected really. Only one true 8 is a concern, but I'm less concerned as the alternatives have been meh at best. Ribbans & Martin over Hill is somewhat surprising. Hooker really concerns me. Once you get past George and LCD the stocks are really low. LCD being out is a proper blow.

Malins is a lucky sod. With Daly's versatility I'd have taken Slade over Malins any day. SH just looks.......er........a bit shit. BUT we're utter shit at clearing and presenting clean ball anyway so whoever plays is going to be playing 3sec+ ruck ball, so somewhat moot. UNLESS there has been an enormous focus on actually getting quick ruck speed. Which judging by Saturday we can largely assume has not happened.

You can put together a decent 23 from that lot that will be competitive, but still a way off the top teams. But there is little alternative to what has been selected.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:32 am Classic Borthers.

Aye.

Don't feel excited nor depressed........... just somewhat disinterested. The worst of feelings.

Even the netball fell short of lifting my spirits.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:41 am Kind of to be expected really. Only one true 8 is a concern, but I'm less concerned as the alternatives have been meh at best. Ribbans & Martin over Hill is somewhat surprising. Hooker really concerns me. Once you get past George and LCD the stocks are really low. LCD being out is a proper blow.

Malins is a lucky sod. With Daly's versatility I'd have taken Slade over Malins any day. SH just looks.......er........a bit shit. BUT we're utter shit at clearing and presenting clean ball anyway so whoever plays is going to be playing 3sec+ ruck ball, so somewhat moot. UNLESS there has been an enormous focus on actually getting quick ruck speed. Which judging by Saturday we can largely assume has not happened.

You can put together a decent 23 from that lot that will be competitive, but still a way off the top teams. But there is little alternative to what has been selected.

exactly. We have about 10 very good proven intls at their best- but I don't think a lot will be able to reproduce their best form (age, injuries, teammates )

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:20 am Tough on Slade but he hasn't ever really made the shirt his own.

He's the poor sod who has played outside Youngs and Farrell so many times. And, can you imagine his frustration playing at 13 with Smith at 10 only to have Farrell at 12 neutering his skillset? He is also the one who has been in dozens of training camps hearing that all will be well if/when Tuilagi is ever fit. How he was supposed to own the shirt with all that negativity is beyond me. I bet Slade wishes he had gone to France with the others.

Having said that, would it be hell of a shock to hear that Tuilagi is crocked again with Slade called in as injury replacement. The irony then is that Slade would probably be in the starting XV with Lawrence.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:08 am If it's a straight choice between Marchant and Slade, fair enough. But, if it means relying on Tuilagi to be fit or Farrell playing at 12, I think Slade's omission is ludicrous.

I have similar reservations about Billy V. If, as is rumoured, he will be the only 8, the decision could rebound badly.

The rumoured selection has turned the likelihood of us being a grim watch into a certainty. It's as if matching Argentina's physicality has become the main aim.

Slade always looked a bit stodgy for a test Outside Centre - more convincing as a fullback or inside centre for me

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:23 am I'm a bit confused by Earl's spot too. When did he last play? Have I completely forgotten a recent appearance? Yes he's versatile, but again with Ludlam, Wilis and Curry all having played 6, 7 and 8 I just don't see why that even matters.

Not taking a second 8 with Billy's recent England form, and having just had his leg reassembled, seems like a particularly unnecessary risk but Ludlam did cover there quite well in the 6 nations.

I'm not sure I follow your point about Marchant vs Slade. As bad as Tuilagi's injury record is, we're 'relying' on anyone who is in the squad to be fit, aren't we? I'm hoping we're viewing him as a 12 only, with Lawrence able to play both but likely to start at 12.

Dan ahead of Blamire is interesting too.

I'm very curious to know what Borthwick's plans for Daly are. I'd love to think he is taking Malins' role.

Given Dombrandt and Simmonds are not involved I can see some sense in picking Earl as the one player who has genuine pace (and utilises it when playing rugby as opposed to just in training) in the backrow. (To be fair Ludlam whilst maybe not quite as quick has shown some of this quality to in link play and T Curry used to).

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 11:07 amHe's the poor sod who has played outside Youngs and Farrell so many times. And, can you imagine his frustration playing at 13 with Smith at 10 only to have Farrell at 12 neutering his skillset? He is also the one who has been in dozens of training camps hearing that all will be well if/when Tuilagi is ever fit. How he was supposed to own the shirt with all that negativity is beyond me. I bet Slade wishes he had gone to France with the others.

Having said that, would it be hell of a shock to hear that Tuilagi is crocked again with Slade called in as injury replacement. The irony then is that Slade would probably be in the starting XV with Lawrence.

So far, we've had 1 OC who's really been able to make a backline with Youngs and Farrell actually work, and who also had Tuilagi's return hanging over his head (and all those attempts to make Te'o work as an international OC).
Unfortunately, JJ hasn't been in the form for a couple of years.
But I can see some sense in going for the most JJ-like option at centre, over someone who's failed to make the inevitable other selections work.

It's harsh on Slade; but he's never fulfilled his promise at international level - and yes, I fully agree he's been set up to fail; but that set-up is going to continue inside him, and we know he can't work with it.



That said; I don't recall ever being this disinterested in an England RWC squad (or rugby as a whole TBH), and I'll admit that I started falling out of love with the club game a few years ago when covid hit, and both Prem and Heiney competitions ruined themselves with weird formula - but even then, and even with Eddie in dross mode, I still loved the international game.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:41 am Hooker really concerns me. Once you get past George and LCD the stocks are really low.