RugbyRebels

Dunno why we don't just select one-day batting specialists and tell them to go after every ball. The innings would be over a bit quicker but we could have double or triple the score.

Good to see that the forthright and brutal meetings forcing the batsmen to watch every dismissal have really made a difference! Truth be told, there's no amount of man management that's going to help here - we just don't have good enough Test batsmen right now and there's nothing we can do to fix that in the short term.

Puja

A glimmer of a chance after Anderson stalwart efforts, gets
extinguished by top order failings..Oz sniff blood; may not be too long this.

'World Test' final less than 6 months ago...if horses for courses applies, we may need a vet.
Avoiding an innings defeat will be a victory of sorts here.
Leach enters the fray..but just passing through, and it's 4 gone before stumps. It's the Alamo brothers already to try and salvage some pride and get a third day out of this match.

Anderson remains amazing

This has got to be up there with the fastest an Ashes series has ever been decided?

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5 for 5 in 3.1 overs ? ..
The Ashes should be burnt to a cinder and handed to Aus. in a tiny urn.
( 6 for 7 now !..)

All over.
2 innings and still 24 short of 267, on a reasonable wicket.
Well bowled Australia.
(Are Eng. getting paid for this ?)

That's (predictably) truly awful, and as good as Oz have been (and without the Smith run machine in full working order), we have been pretty spineless. Only Root can be said to have batted ok. God knows where you go from here- Anderson is probably in his last series, though still our most effective bowler, and Broad likely running on empty. Leaves you with Root, Stokes (? and he's broken imo), and Robinson, and Wood every other game (and he's been good without taking wickets). Cupboard a tad bare.

I thought that England might be a bit better than this. The performances have been utterly abject.

The stats dont lie. We have one quality batsman in Root, who averages 50. Next best is Stokes who averages 36. No one else manages to make 35. Until that changes we are stuck in the 2nd division of test cricket.

Oh, and we might want to stop relying on a 39 year old quick who cannot have much left in the tank.

Still, i'm sure the 100 will be a big hit in the summer.......

fivepointer wrote:I thought that England might be a bit better than this. The performances have been utterly abject.

The stats dont lie. We have one quality batsman in Root, who averages 50. Next best is Stokes who averages 36. No one else manages to make 35. Until that changes we are stuck in the 2nd division of test cricket.

Oh, and we might want to stop relying on a 39 year old quick who cannot have much left in the tank.

Still, i'm sure the 100 will be a big hit in the summer.......

I think extras were our second highest run maker behind Root

Extras will need to step-up a notch to help the losing cause - Eng not getting bowled out twice in 3 days unlikely.
Green will be on the naughty step for not getting double figures..
Leach/Root went for 125 at nearly 4 / over (1 wicket)...it's a handicap we have; just playing red-ball on green-tops in the short domestic season now won't help develop young spinners.

Eng on their way now (destination unknown). No loss after 2 overs - not right that.

fivepointer wrote:I thought that England might be a bit better than this. The performances have been utterly abject.

The stats dont lie. We have one quality batsman in Root, who averages 50. Next best is Stokes who averages 36. No one else manages to make 35. Until that changes we are stuck in the 2nd division of test cricket.

Oh, and we might want to stop relying on a 39 year old quick who cannot have much left in the tank.

Still, i'm sure the 100 will be a big hit in the summer.......

I've seen a few folk elsewhere single out bowling (not saying you are) but I don't see what choice England really had. Archer, Stone and to a lesser extent Curran all offer something different but aren't fit. The top wicket takers in the CC are Fletcher and Rushworth who are also old fellas. Every time Broad and Anderson play in the CC they take wickets. Anderson averaged 7.55 in 4 games (11 wickets) and Broad 16 in 5 (23 wickets).

I don't know enough about Samuel Cook at Essex, but he had a nice season last year.

In the batsmen, Bairstow and Buttler should be in danger of being dropped for the final time.

Big D wrote:

fivepointer wrote:I thought that England might be a bit better than this. The performances have been utterly abject.

The stats dont lie. We have one quality batsman in Root, who averages 50. Next best is Stokes who averages 36. No one else manages to make 35. Until that changes we are stuck in the 2nd division of test cricket.

Oh, and we might want to stop relying on a 39 year old quick who cannot have much left in the tank.

Still, i'm sure the 100 will be a big hit in the summer.......

I've seen a few folk elsewhere single out bowling (not saying you are) but I don't see what choice England really had. Archer, Stone and to a lesser extent Curran all offer something different but aren't fit. The top wicket takers in the CC are Fletcher and Rushworth who are also old fellas. Every time Broad and Anderson play in the CC they take wickets. Anderson averaged 7.55 in 4 games (11 wickets) and Broad 16 in 5 (23 wickets).

I don't know enough about Samuel Cook at Essex, but he had a nice season last year.

In the batsmen, Bairstow and Buttler should be in danger of being dropped for the final time.

You mean that the CC rewards medium pace swing and movement bowlers over anything else? That's a huge surprise! I mean, no-one has been talking about the lack of pace and spin coming through the counties since I can remember, at least the past 15 years!

Big D wrote:In the batsmen, Bairstow and Buttler should be in danger of being dropped for the final time.

But for whom? The whole reason that they keep coming back is that we haven't got anyone else.

Puja

Stom wrote:

Big D wrote:

fivepointer wrote:I thought that England might be a bit better than this. The performances have been utterly abject.

The stats dont lie. We have one quality batsman in Root, who averages 50. Next best is Stokes who averages 36. No one else manages to make 35. Until that changes we are stuck in the 2nd division of test cricket.

Oh, and we might want to stop relying on a 39 year old quick who cannot have much left in the tank.

Still, i'm sure the 100 will be a big hit in the summer.......

I've seen a few folk elsewhere single out bowling (not saying you are) but I don't see what choice England really had. Archer, Stone and to a lesser extent Curran all offer something different but aren't fit. The top wicket takers in the CC are Fletcher and Rushworth who are also old fellas. Every time Broad and Anderson play in the CC they take wickets. Anderson averaged 7.55 in 4 games (11 wickets) and Broad 16 in 5 (23 wickets).

I don't know enough about Samuel Cook at Essex, but he had a nice season last year.

In the batsmen, Bairstow and Buttler should be in danger of being dropped for the final time.

You mean that the CC rewards medium pace swing and movement bowlers over anything else? That's a huge surprise! I mean, no-one has been talking about the lack of pace and spin coming through the counties since I can remember, at least the past 15 years!

Indeed. But the bowling hasn't been the main issue or even the second main issue on this tour.

With Archer, Stone and Curran available the pase attack had plenty options for the time being to allow more to be brought through. Mahmood is fast enough, not sure how fast or otherwise Cook and Fisher are.

Parkinson, Bess and Crane have potential but selectors don't have faith in any spinner.

So there's not loads of options but there are options.

Batting on the other hand looks bare.

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:In the batsmen, Bairstow and Buttler should be in danger of being dropped for the final time.

But for whom? The whole reason that they keep coming back is that we haven't got anyone else.

Puja

Those two are given special treatment (repeated chances) because of what they've done on the white ball game.

Buttlers average is marginally better than Foakes and Foakes is a far better keeper. Smith looked decent in the limited bits and bobs I've seen of him.bracey struggled in two tests but Buttler struggles in series and gets away with it.

With Bairstow they could give Vince a fraction of the chances Bairstow has had, Bohannon can bat pretty well and bowl too, Lawrence was dropped too quickly again compared to the chances Bairstow gets considering his career average in 80 matches is 33.

I'd go for the zero fucks option and let Livingstone loose. We're as well being entertained.

Of course, that's a bit of shuffling deck chairs on the titanic but England know Bairstow and Buttler aren't the answer. Averages of 33/34 over 50+ and 80 tests has proven that.

better - no further loss of wicket today, thus far.

Bairstow playing well tbf. But this is part of the problem with him, one good knock in a blue moon let's him keep his place. He needs to be far more consistent.

Galfon wrote:better - no further loss of wicket today, thus far.

Went a bit early there!

Well done Bairstow, but ffs on the rest bar Stokes and Wood. What was Root thinking- he must be scrambled I guess.

Banquo wrote: Went a bit early there!

yes I was banking on the rain lasting a bit longer...
Still a hefty lead for Oz; Eng will not want to be batting again before d5, so survival batting/tight bowling test awaIts.
JR knows last year & this series will be remembered for team failures abound, so his days as skip are nigh on over.

Galfon wrote:

Banquo wrote: Went a bit early there!

yes I was banking on the rain lasting a bit longer...
Still a hefty lead for Oz; Eng will not want to be batting again before d5, so survival batting/tight bowling test awaIts.
JR knows last year & this series will be remembered for team failures abound, so his days as skip are nigh on over.

Upside is that he may get back to averaging 50+ consistently - in fairness he had a stellar year last year as a batsman. Thing is though....he doesn't have a strong hand to play with- the batting is awful, and the bowling only ok if conditions really suit Jimmy, and the fielding (inc him) is so inconsistent.....and who replaces him as skip?

Its difficult to see where we go- our best players likely all have their best days behind them, and there is nothing underneath them.

Banquo wrote:

Galfon wrote:

Banquo wrote: Went a bit early there!

.....and who replaces him as skip?
Its difficult to see where we go- our best players likely all have their best days behind them, and there is nothing underneath them.

Yes the cupboard looks bare on both fronts atm but there's something missing inspiration wise.
The 3 likely contenders probs. Stokes, Buttler, Burns are similar age..BS not in best shape, the other 2 struggling with form...and all similar age to JR
Would go with Morgan or Broad for year or 2, to steady the ship.
JR at his peak batting wise and need every ounce from him in the next few years.

Galfon wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Galfon wrote:.....and who replaces him as skip?
Its difficult to see where we go- our best players likely all have their best days behind them, and there is nothing underneath them.

Yes the cupboard looks bare on both fronts atm but there's something missing inspiration wise.
The 3 likely contenders probs. Stokes, Buttler, Burns are similar age..BS not in best shape, the other 2 struggling with form...and all similar age to JR
Would go with Morgan or Broad for year or 2, to steady the ship.
JR at his peak batting wise and need every ounce from him in the next few years.

The problem is that Morgan doesn't play red ball cricket much (at all?) and he wasn't the best at red ball cricket to begin with. I do think there is the potential to bring him in as head coach with Collingwood taking the white ball HC job to allow Morgan to eek his way to the T20 world cup. He could then still influence the style of play.

They really are stuck between to rock and a hard place with captaincy. Burns has captained Surrey this year but is hanging onto his place, Vince and Billings have captaincy experience but are nowhere near the test team (although Billings might get a game in the 5th test). Broad wont play every game.

One from way (way way way) outside the box would be Harry Brook who was with the Lions squad, captained England youth sides but had disciplinary issues and I am not sure he is ready for international cricket.