RugbyRebels

I am shocked if you’re not left of centre.

The review of HS2 states it is economically viable and the eastern arm of the Y is being further reviewed for efficiencies. Further, as above, pretty much every senior northern and midlands politician is in favour, ie mostly Labour. The group most against it are the Conservative Party, both membership and parliamentary members. Boris isn’t ok’ing this for an easy life or to be a populist. I’m really am surprised people left of centre, I include Diggers in that not just you, aren’t in favour of HS2. Also, beyond the economic viability and the need to replace the shite provision people battle with everyday, it’s a green alternative to flying. Even Ed Davey thinks so.

I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

Digby wrote:I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

I can agree with most of that. Seems strange that you mentioned Boris four times in 9 (mobile phone) lines, when most isn’t his fault.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

I can agree with most of that. Seems strange that you mentioned Boris four times in 9 (mobile phone) lines, when most isn’t his fault.

That's mostly my amusement the leaking against Boris has already started, and the in fairness newsworthy nature that so many of the cabinet have reservations, that Dominic Cummings is against, that he has so many Shire MPs against HS2 and Boris is happily telling them all to fuck off he won big majority. It might be the nature of being told to fuck off that has so many people suddenly briefing against Boris

Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

Hmm.

Mellsblue wrote:I am shocked if you’re not left of centre.

The review of HS2 states it is economically viable and the eastern arm of the Y is being further reviewed for efficiencies. Further, as above, pretty much every senior northern and midlands politician is in favour, ie mostly Labour. The group most against it are the Conservative Party, both membership and parliamentary members. Boris isn’t ok’ing this for an easy life or to be a populist. I’m really am surprised people left of centre, I include Diggers in that not just you, aren’t in favour of HS2. Also, beyond the economic viability and the need to replace the shite provision people battle with everyday, it’s a green alternative to flying. Even Ed Davey thinks so.

I'd say that I'm firmly left of centre socially, and fairly left of centre fiscally. Which still doesn't make me a labour supporter or a momentum-type.

I'm not opposed to HS2 on principal, whilst I'm reasonably neutral to slightly in favour of it in practice. I am, however, dubious that it's the best way to address the problems it's attempting to address.

I am, against populist vanity projects as a matter of principal (from both sides of the aisle), and I do utterly fail to trust anything that Boris does in that arena. I will need a lot more convincing that Boris isn't doing this for populist reasons, given that he's trying hard to woo Northerners.

Which Tyler wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I am shocked if you’re not left of centre.

The review of HS2 states it is economically viable and the eastern arm of the Y is being further reviewed for efficiencies. Further, as above, pretty much every senior northern and midlands politician is in favour, ie mostly Labour. The group most against it are the Conservative Party, both membership and parliamentary members. Boris isn’t ok’ing this for an easy life or to be a populist. I’m really am surprised people left of centre, I include Diggers in that not just you, aren’t in favour of HS2. Also, beyond the economic viability and the need to replace the shite provision people battle with everyday, it’s a green alternative to flying. Even Ed Davey thinks so.

I'd say that I'm firmly left of centre socially, and fairly left of centre fiscally. Which still doesn't make me a labour supporter or a momentum-type.

I'm not opposed to HS2 on principal, whilst I'm reasonably neutral to slightly in favour of it in practice. I am, however, dubious that it's the best way to address the problems it's attempting to address.

I am, against populist vanity projects as a matter of principal (from both sides of the aisle), and I do utterly fail to trust anything that Boris does in that arena. I will need a lot more convincing that Boris isn't doing this for populist reasons, given that he's trying hard to woo Northerners.

So you are left of centre.....
Trying to woo voters is populist?!?! That’s pretty much what bring a politician involves. I’d agree that it’s populist if I didn’t have the backing of a recent review and 99% of the local big hitting politicians, but it does so I’m confused how it’s populist. It’s also the continuation of a Labour policy and is least popular within his own party.
Boris is massively flawed but this seems a strange point of attack.

Mellsblue wrote:So you are left of centre.....

Why on earth would you ever think I wasn't? Are you SURE you actually read the things I write? - not that you have to by any stretch, but you persistently mis-characterise me. Please tell me that you understand that "left of centre" and "labour supporter" are not synonyms?

And yes, it's a populist move by a populist politician, done, I suspect, for populist reasons. Why does something being popular mean that it isn't populist?
Why does it being the continuation of a labour policy make it less populist? why do you think that means I would support it unconditionally?

Which Tyler wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:So you are left of centre.....

Why on earth would you ever think I wasn't? Are you SURE you actually read the things I write? - not that you have to by any stretch, but you persistently mis-characterise me. Please tell me that you understand that "left of centre" and "labour supporter" are not synonyms?

And yes, it's a populist move by a populist politician, done, I suspect, for populist reasons. Why does something being popular mean that it isn't populist?
Why does it being the continuation of a labour policy make it less populist? why do you think that means I would support it unconditionally?

Well you posted this “just to the left of a right of centre poster“ which leaves a lot of room for manoeuvre as to where your political views sit dependent on where you think I sit, and is strangely vague. I’ve also explicitly stated I think you’re left of centre previously - “ Those left of centre moaning about the govt loosening purse strings“ - to which you’ve the replied with the vague quote above. I was just exclaiming my happiness you’ve given some clarity.

I fully understand that left of centre does not equal Labour. I’ve studied politics, I’m married to a Lib Dem supporting politics grad, I’ve done many a year as a councillor and I currently work in the public sector and therefore deal with politicians on an almost daily basis. Trust me, I understand politics.

If you think a policy that has cross party support, both in Westminster and in the regions, has been backed by 3/4 different governments and has been given the green light by two different govt reviews is populist then, once again, we’ll have to disagree. Boris is a populist in many ways but that doesn’t make this a populist policy.

Digby wrote:Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

It may worry/disappoint you that I sit somewhere round there, too. I’ve a lot of admiration for Laws. His book on the coalition was fascinating and I found myself agreeing with an awful lot. His resignation was a huge blow to that govt.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

It may worry/disappoint you that I sit somewhere round there, too. I’ve a lot of admiration for Laws. His book on the coalition was fascinating and I found myself agreeing with an awful lot. His resignation was a huge blow to that govt.

He had to go at the time but yes it was a loss, both for his ability and that he was a bridge between the factions, I'm surprised we haven't heard more of him in recent times. I mean if disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox is allowed out in public then Laws was by far the lesser transgressor and he typically has more useful things to say too

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:Also I'm maybe socially a liberal and/or left of centre, but I'm fiscally conservative. Something akin to David Laws maybe

It may worry/disappoint you that I sit somewhere round there, too. I’ve a lot of admiration for Laws. His book on the coalition was fascinating and I found myself agreeing with an awful lot. His resignation was a huge blow to that govt.

He had to go at the time but yes it was a loss, both for his ability and that he was a bridge between the factions, I'm surprised we haven't heard more of him in recent times. I mean if disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox is allowed out in public then Laws was by far the lesser transgressor and he typically has more useful things to say too

Agreed.

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:I'm in favour of HS2 as we need new lines running out of London alway that deliver additional capacity and HS2 is wrapped up in the delivery of that. I can't say I've every quite understood why it had to shave an additional 10-15 minutes of the journey time from Birmingham to London at the cost of so many additional billions. I further don't understand why we keep saying the budget has gone up, when what's really happened is a combination of poor establishment of costs to begin with and the government again agreeing to the ultra low proposed delivery costs when they're never feasible

I can agree with most of that. Seems strange that you mentioned Boris four times in 9 (mobile phone) lines, when most isn’t his fault.

That's mostly my amusement the leaking against Boris has already started, and the in fairness newsworthy nature that so many of the cabinet have reservations, that Dominic Cummings is against, that he has so many Shire MPs against HS2 and Boris is happily telling them all to fuck off he won big majority. It might be the nature of being told to fuck off that has so many people suddenly briefing against Boris

At least now my amusement/bemusement about people leaking/briefing so strongly against Boris has an explanation

I see Chris Grayling has been appointed chair of the intelligence committee...

Bit of an oxymoron there

I wonder who else is on the committee, has it changed even? The last chap they appointed was Dominic Grieve, so this appears quite a few rungs down on the ladder

I was shocked to read today that Nadine Dorries, a health minister, had contracted coronavirus.

Who the fuck would give Nadine Dorries any responsibility?

Which Tyler wrote:I see Chris Grayling has been appointed chair of the intelligence committee...

Bit of an oxymoron there

Definitely a moron.

ICYMI - Parliament can no longer work from home because Rees-Mogg says so. They had a perfectly functioning method of contributing and voting from home which was used during lockdown, but now that's eased, Rees-Mogg has decreed that they all have to travel in, regardless of the risk. If they don't want to travel or are in a household that's shielding, that's absolutely fine, it just means they can't vote on things. Surely no problem in a parliament at all!

Democracy!

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 45256.html

Also, Mark Francois thinks he's hilarious. Note the pause for laughter which doesn't come.


Puja

It's just very bizarre behaviour from Mogg. I've yet to find one person I know, friends, family, business (many of them staunch Tory voters) who is accepting of the reasons given that Parliament must vote in such fashion, indeed the overwhelming reaction is much closer to it being lunacy than it being a sensible way out of lockdown

JRM is a prat (I’m being nice) but the govt, as of yesterday, have belatedly done the correct thing and MPs are allowed to vote by proxy if they can’t attend for any reason.

Digby wrote:It's just very bizarre behaviour from Mogg. I've yet to find one person I know, friends, family, business (many of them staunch Tory voters) who is accepting of the reasons given that Parliament must vote in such fashion, indeed the overwhelming reaction is much closer to it being lunacy than it being a sensible way out of lockdown

The polls back this up. I think he was in a very small minority who thought it a good idea. Coincidentally, I’d imagine that minority is almost identical in number to the ERG.

Digby wrote:It's just very bizarre behaviour from Mogg. I've yet to find one person I know, friends, family, business (many of them staunch Tory voters) who is accepting of the reasons given that Parliament must vote in such fashion, indeed the overwhelming reaction is much closer to it being lunacy than it being a sensible way out of lockdown

The images of MPs queuing in such a long line to cast a vote are just embarrassing. Like you, I can't find anyone who thinks its a good idea.Trying to send a message that they are back to work with the rest of us I understand. But you could have the lower chamber full (in social distancing mode) and allow full participation online. Message duly sent.

Now it looks like the Business Secretary, Sharma, may be ill and was seen to be suffering in the Commons yesterday. So he is now self isolating plus anyone else he was in close contact with.

Utter fucking lunacy of the highest order.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:It's just very bizarre behaviour from Mogg. I've yet to find one person I know, friends, family, business (many of them staunch Tory voters) who is accepting of the reasons given that Parliament must vote in such fashion, indeed the overwhelming reaction is much closer to it being lunacy than it being a sensible way out of lockdown

The images of MPs queuing in such a long line to cast a vote are just embarrassing. Like you, I can't find anyone who thinks its a good idea.Trying to send a message that they are back to work with the rest of us I understand. But you could have the lower chamber full (in social distancing mode) and allow full participation online. Message duly sent.

Now it looks like the Business Secretary, Sharma, may be ill and was seen to be suffering in the Commons yesterday. So he is now self isolating plus anyone else he was in close contact with.

Utter fucking lunacy of the highest order.

Let's look on the positive side here. If Sharma returns a positive test, it will at least give the contact tracers something to do.

Mellsblue wrote:JRM is a prat (I’m being nice) but the govt, as of yesterday, have belatedly done the correct thing and MPs are allowed to vote by proxy if they can’t attend for any reason.

That's very generous.

I'm no class warrior, and the very few people that I have met who have his kind of background (if not exactly his kind of wealth), I have got on with reasonably well. One, indeed, I play curling with and against from time to time.

But, there is something about JRM's manner that makes me want to rearrange his face with a fire shovel.