EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[twitchy]

Without wanting to sound callous I don't think england should be pinning their long term hopes on sam. He is incredibly brave but if you already have this bad concussion at 21 combined with his style of play..........

[Banquo]

Update on Sam Underhill (and Taulupe Faletau):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... mptomatic/

I'm delighted to see a DOR taking this approach, and seeking to actually walk the walk on match day as well.

Hopefully that will pay off for Sam.

[Mellsblue]

Tom Dunn beats his own Champions Cup tackle record of 31 by completing 33 last weekend.

[Digby]

Tom Dunn beats his own Champions Cup tackle record of 31 by completing 33 last weekend.

I assume he'll get next weekend off. Also at some point Bath might want to keep the ball

[bitts]

If the World Cup was starting this month I'd have Kruis as one of my locks, you just can't move past 20 odd caps. And actually between now and the WC getting around he has 20 odd caps is something there isn't a lot of time to circumvent

While I see your point. This is worryingly similar to the reasoning behind endlessly picking Brad Barrett and others by Burt. All in the name of world cup winning sides having 600+ caps.

[Digby]

If the World Cup was starting this month I'd have Kruis as one of my locks, you just can't move past 20 odd caps. And actually between now and the WC getting around he has 20 odd caps is something there isn't a lot of time to circumvent

While I see your point. This is worryingly similar to the reasoning behind endlessly picking Brad Barrett and others by Burt. All in the name of world cup winning sides having 600+ caps.

Save Barritt lacked ability in a number of areas, and Kruis has shown he can play top flight rugby

[Scrumhead]

If the World Cup was starting this month I'd have Kruis as one of my locks, you just can't move past 20 odd caps. And actually between now and the WC getting around he has 20 odd caps is something there isn't a lot of time to circumvent

While I see your point. This is worryingly similar to the reasoning behind endlessly picking Brad Barrett and others by Burt. All in the name of world cup winning sides having 600+ caps.

It’s not as simple as that though. Test rugby is different to club rugby where a player can quickly build up a run of form. It takes most players 5 or 6 games to really establish themselves at test level and with the amount of injuries players are picking up, it’s actually pretty hard to get that run of games especially with the gaps between summer tours, AIs and the 6 Nations. Even if a player has a clean bill of health, it pretty much takes a year to become established. Throw in an injury or two and it that time frame is extended. With less than two years to go to Japan, we can’t afford to mess around.

It also depends on the position. Kruis’ form doesn’t worry me unduly as he’s a proven player and is arguably fourth choice right now anyway. On the other hand, we have no choice but to experiment at 7.

The trouble is that since Haskell’s injury, nobody has managed to string together two consecutive games. While it’s factually correct that Underhill started against Argentina and Australia, he only made it through 10 minutes of the second game. I’m sure Eddie would have liked him to have played both tests on the Argentina tour and all three AIs, but it hasn’t worked out like that and considering he’s not yet managed to string together more than four games for Bath, I wouldn’t bank on him playing five games in the 6 Nations.

It’s a real dilemma because if Underhill is not fit or we decide to look at another option like one of the Curry twins, they’re then at the beggining for that bedding-in period and we’re basically back to square 1 ...

Ideally, we need one player to get the run of games in the 6 Nations and the SA tour and really claim the shirt. If that doesn’t happen, I think there’s a real risk we’ll be having the same conversation in a year’s time.

[Mellsblue]

If the World Cup was starting this month I'd have Kruis as one of my locks, you just can't move past 20 odd caps. And actually between now and the WC getting around he has 20 odd caps is something there isn't a lot of time to circumvent

While I see your point. This is worryingly similar to the reasoning behind endlessly picking Brad Barrett and others by Burt. All in the name of world cup winning sides having 600+ caps.

It’s not as simple as that though. Test rugby is different to club rugby where a player can quickly build up a run of form. It takes most players 5 or 6 games to really establish themselves at test level and with the amount of injuries players are picking up, it’s actually pretty hard to get that run of games especially with the gaps between summer tours, AIs and the 6 Nations. Even if a player has a clean bill of health, it pretty much takes a year to become established. Throw in an injury or two and it that time frame is extended. With less than two years to go to Japan, we can’t afford to mess around.

It also depends on the position. Kruis’ form doesn’t worry me unduly as he’s a proven player and is arguably fourth choice right now anyway. On the other hand, we have no choice but to experiment at 7.

The trouble is that since Haskell’s injury, nobody has managed to string together two consecutive games. While it’s factually correct that Underhill started against Argentina and Australia, he only made it through 10 minutes of the second game. I’m sure Eddie would have liked him to have played both tests on the Argentina tour and all three AIs, but it hasn’t worked out like that and considering he’s not yet managed to string together more than four games for Bath, I wouldn’t bank on him playing five games in the 6 Nations.

It’s a real dilemma because if Underhill is not fit or we decide to look at another option like one of the Curry twins, they’re then at the beggining for that bedding-in period and we’re basically back to square 1 ...

Ideally, we need one player to get the run of games in the 6 Nations and the SA tour and really claim the shirt. If that doesn’t happen, I think there’s a real risk we’ll be having the same conversation in a year’s time.

Yep. Imagine if one or, please no, both scrumhalves go down to long term injuries. Gulp.

[Beasties]

If the World Cup was starting this month I'd have Kruis as one of my locks, you just can't move past 20 odd caps. And actually between now and the WC getting around he has 20 odd caps is something there isn't a lot of time to circumvent

While I see your point. This is worryingly similar to the reasoning behind endlessly picking Brad Barrett and others by Burt. All in the name of world cup winning sides having 600+ caps.

It’s not as simple as that though. Test rugby is different to club rugby where a player can quickly build up a run of form. It takes most players 5 or 6 games to really establish themselves at test level and with the amount of injuries players are picking up, it’s actually pretty hard to get that run of games especially with the gaps between summer tours, AIs and the 6 Nations. Even if a player has a clean bill of health, it pretty much takes a year to become established. Throw in an injury or two and it that time frame is extended. With less than two years to go to Japan, we can’t afford to mess around.

It also depends on the position. Kruis’ form doesn’t worry me unduly as he’s a proven player and is arguably fourth choice right now anyway. On the other hand, we have no choice but to experiment at 7.

The trouble is that since Haskell’s injury, nobody has managed to string together two consecutive games. While it’s factually correct that Underhill started against Argentina and Australia, he only made it through 10 minutes of the second game. I’m sure Eddie would have liked him to have played both tests on the Argentina tour and all three AIs, but it hasn’t worked out like that and considering he’s not yet managed to string together more than four games for Bath, I wouldn’t bank on him playing five games in the 6 Nations.

It’s a real dilemma because if Underhill is not fit or we decide to look at another option like one of the Curry twins, they’re then at the beggining for that bedding-in period and we’re basically back to square 1 ...

Ideally, we need one player to get the run of games in the 6 Nations and the SA tour and really claim the shirt. If that doesn’t happen, I think there’s a real risk we’ll be having the same conversation in a year’s time.

Meanwhile the Hask has been quietly and glacially improving his form in the last few weeks to the point where he just about deserves his place in the Wasps back row. I'd written him off weeks ago (as had everyone else) but credit where it's due. If Eddie found himself without some/all of Underhill, both Currys and a Simmonds then he might just give the Hask another go. He obv likes him to a point. At least we wouldn't have to see Tom Wood in an Eng shirt again.

[Timbo]

A triple whammy of shoddy injury news; Hughes and Daly out for at least a month and Te’o out for another 6 weeks.

Looking at the quotes Dai Young seems quite downbeat on Hughes and Daly. Both seeing a specialist tomorrow to see if surgery required.

[Banquo]

A triple whammy of shoddy injury news; Hughes and Daly out for at least a month and Te’o out for another 6 weeks.

Looking at the quotes Dai Young seems quite downbeat on Hughes and Daly. Both seeing a specialist tomorrow to see if surgery required.

booga. Daly is a big loss in terms of how the backline could be shaping up for England if more than a month, and I'd like to see Teo at 12- unlikely I know.

[twitchy]

England's master plan of physically driving players into the ground before the 6N each year is paying dividends masterfully. Can we rush back a half fit billy to tee him up for another long term injury. Stay tuned.

[fivepointer]

We just have to accept players will be unavailable from time to time. I dont see that changing much until we grasp the nettle and reduce their workload, which would hopefully reduce the injury toll. Eddie just has to get on with things as they are and pick whoever is fit.
Cant help feeling that Daly - like all the Lions - didnt get anything like enough of a break.

[Raggs]

Daly had a good holiday after the Lions I believe, was still on holiday for eddies first Eps weekend. Since Wasps had rested him, Eddie obviously didn't feel the need to.

[Timbo]

We overplay our players, BUT...ultimately there will be injuries no matter what you do. Ireland and NZ probably look after their players best, yet the AB’s have had a huge injury list this season and a lot of Ireland’s senior players (O’brien, Sexton, R.Kearney, Heaslip, O’Mahony, Cian Healy etc) have missed loads of rugby over the last couple of seasons through injury.

[Timbo]

Plus, I find that any injury around this time of year to an England player is talked about in terms of being doubtful/out of the 6N’s. Invariably the injury list once the tournament starts is never as bad as feared.

[Stom]

Plus, I find that any injury around this time of year to an England player is talked about in terms of being doubtful/out of the 6N’s. Invariably the injury list once the tournament starts is never as bad as feared.

Indeed. Even Tulagi's citing, which was crazy, was reported as "Tuilagi a doubt for 6N after dangerous tackle"...which was insane. The sanction was 2-4 weeks or something, which is somehow until late Feb...?

Perhaps journalists have just forgotten their simple maths...

[Digby]

I think had Manu been banned the concern wasn't the ban would run until the 6N, but would have seen him being left with too little time to build match fitness and contest a spot

[fivepointer]

The England and Lions’ three-quarter Elliot Daly will miss next year’s Six Nations after suffering an ankle injury playing for Wasps last weekend that will rule him out for three months, even though he may not need surgery.

Daly’s club and international colleague, the No8 Nathan Hughes, will miss at least the first three rounds of the Six Nations, which England have won for the last two years, after suffering a knee injury in the same match against La Rochelle last Sunday.

Better news for the England head coach Eddie Jones is that Saracens expect their No8, Billy Vunipola, to return to action in two or three weeks, four months after he had a knee operation

[Digby]

Losing Daly is a real shame for him and England. I of course blame the jamboree

[twitchy]

How much has clifford been playing recently?

[Oakboy]

The England and Lions’ three-quarter Elliot Daly will miss next year’s Six Nations after suffering an ankle injury playing for Wasps last weekend that will rule him out for three months, even though he may not need surgery.

Daly’s club and international colleague, the No8 Nathan Hughes, will miss at least the first three rounds of the Six Nations, which England have won for the last two years, after suffering a knee injury in the same match against La Rochelle last Sunday.

Better news for the England head coach Eddie Jones is that Saracens expect their No8, Billy Vunipola, to return to action in two or three weeks, four months after he had a knee operation

Let's hope Billy's return is VERY carefully managed.

[Oakboy]

How much has clifford been playing recently?

Eddie could do worse than call up Waldrom.

[Digby]

How much has clifford been playing recently?

Eddie could do worse than call up Waldrom.

This is true, he could call up me, and I'd be much worse.

[twitchy]

Waldrom would make the most sense practically but I don't think EJ will go for him.