RugbyRebels

Raggs wrote:People keep touting Watson there because he keeps playing there...

and had played there before he went to Bath. Daly had played there regularly, and has filled in with a good deal of success.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
He played there for Gloucester at around the same sort of time that Daly was 15 for Wasps, so maybe about 4 years ago. I'd like to say he was rusty, but IIRC, he didn't look that coordinated at 15 back then either.

Puja

that's a long time, so I'll stick with experimental. He may want it on his CV, but like Woodburn to me, doesn't look a good fit for his skills or decision making ability. Its not a position that's easy to flit in and out of.

And yet people keep touting players like Daly, Nowell, and Watson there? Granted, I think they'd do a better job and be more suited to it than May (low bar), but Daly especially hasn't played there in such a long time as to make his previous experience almost meaningless.

Puja

I tout them there for different reasons- Watson, well because he actually was and now is again a regular 15 and has played there a lot; Daly because he has played there as a regular, has filled in a good few times and looked comfy, and has a superb skill set suited for 15 (but prefer him on the wing); Nowell has played there and I'd like to see him have a dash there for counter attacking reasons.

I wouldn't tout May there for reasons as before.

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:People keep touting Watson there because he keeps playing there...

and had played there before he went to Bath. Daly had played there regularly, and has filled in with a good deal of success.

Watson has been a fullback for ages, just put on the wing due to other fullback options. Daly looked good there, but it was seasons ago, and whilst I suspect that he still works on positioning (especially now he's playing so much at wing), I'd rather he was emergencies only. Watson is more a fullback on the wing, than a wing playing fullback for me. I did have some questions over his kicking game before, but I think he's worked on it.

Nowell hasn't looked good there in the cameos he's done recently I believe, though I wish he did.

Raggs wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:People keep touting Watson there because he keeps playing there...

and had played there before he went to Bath. Daly had played there regularly, and has filled in with a good deal of success.

Watson has been a fullback for ages, just put on the wing due to other fullback options. Daly looked good there, but it was seasons ago, and whilst I suspect that he still works on positioning (especially now he's playing so much at wing), I'd rather he was emergencies only. Watson is more a fullback on the wing, than a wing playing fullback for me. I did have some questions over his kicking game before, but I think he's worked on it.

Nowell hasn't looked good there in the cameos he's done recently I believe, though I wish he did.

aye

Banquo wrote:I tout them there for different reasons- Watson, well because he actually was and now is again a regular 15 and has played there a lot.

Point of order; there's no "was and now is again" he has always been a regular full back. IIRC there has been no rugby season that he has played more matches on the wing than at full back. Or at least, not since making his debut for LIrish - I guess he may have at age grade.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:I tout them there for different reasons- Watson, well because he actually was and now is again a regular 15 and has played there a lot.

Point of order; there's no "was and now is again" he has always been a regular full back. IIRC there has been no rugby season that he has played more matches on the wing than at full back. Or at least, not since making his debut for LIrish - I guess he may have at age grade.

He played at wing a fair bit at age group level. Hasn’t he featured fairly often at wing for Baaath an all?
Anyway a moot argument since we both see him as a 15

My only slight reservation with Watson and his speed, acceleration and footwork is I'd be hoping for a little more, not that he's not good as is, but he does look as if there should be more performances that rank better than good. Feels a little harsh to criticise a good player for not being great, and he is still young, but I would like to start seeing him dominate proceedings more, including at test level, the ability does look to be there for that

Banquo wrote:He played at wing a fair bit at age group level. Hasn’t he featured fairly often at wing for Baaath an all?
Anyway a moot argument since we both see him as a 15

IIRC he mostly played at FB for us, but did get a run of (8ish) games where we were putting 2 wings in the centres, so Homer played FB with Watson on the wing. But he still played more at FB than at wing over the course of the season (on second thoughts, that might be that way for Bath, with his England caps swinging it across for the season as a whole). Generally though, he's only played wing for Bath when we've had enough injuries that it's been better to play him alongside the other FB (whether Homer or Bendy) than to dip too far down the pecking order on the wing (so Homer, Watson, Roko instead of Watson, Roko, Wilson; for example).

The whole "he's not a full back" thing came from people who saw him on the wing for England and assumed that he played there for his club, it was never actual reality.

Raggs wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:People keep touting Watson there because he keeps playing there...

and had played there before he went to Bath. Daly had played there regularly, and has filled in with a good deal of success.

Watson has been a fullback for ages, just put on the wing due to other fullback options.

Sooooooo, the Watson not playing full-back running-joke is officially dead, huh?

Puja

I think Puja’s point about Watson was tongue in cheek, to add to the running EMB joke that Watson doesn’t play fullback. (Edit: YES!!!)
From what I’ve seen of Nowell on his fb cameos, he’s no more suited to fb than May, Woodburn or Monye. No idea on Daly as I haven’t seen him play there in years.
Fb is a bit of a problem position. Other than Watson, we have players filling in and a rapidly declining Brown. I’d hoped Haley would kick on from the SA tour but, if anything, he’s gone backwards.

Mellsblue wrote:I think Puja’s point about Watson was tongue in cheek, to add to the running EMB joke that Watson doesn’t play fullback. (Edit: YES!!!)
From what I’ve seen of Nowell on his fb cameos, he’s no more suited to fb than May, Woodburn or Monye. No idea on Daly as I haven’t seen him play there in years.
Fb is a bit of a problem position. Other than Watson, we have players filling in and a rapidly declining Brown. I’d hoped Haley would kick on from the SA tour but, if anything, he’s gone backwards.

You don't mention Slade. At present I wonder if he's edging into Eddie's mind as 1st choice 13 with JJ slightly off his best and Tuilagi some distance off competitive fitness. Should either of those two re-emerge as better 13 prospects, might Slade switch to FB as too good to leave out? Maybe, Slade, Watson and Daly would be a preferred unit for all-round solidity to Watson, May and Daly, for example.

Mellsblue wrote:I think Puja’s point about Watson was tongue in cheek, to add to the running EMB joke that Watson doesn’t play fullback. (Edit: YES!!!)
From what I’ve seen of Nowell on his fb cameos, he’s no more suited to fb than May, Woodburn or Monye. No idea on Daly as I haven’t seen him play there in years.
Fb is a bit of a problem position. Other than Watson, we have players filling in and a rapidly declining Brown. I’d hoped Haley would kick on from the SA tour but, if anything, he’s gone backwards.

Daly went to fb a couple of times for England and the Lions iirc.
Puja is a mod and doesn’t do humour since that appt

Pennell too old? Playing well for Worcester and is a very accomplished all round player.

Banquo wrote: Puja is a mod and doesn’t do humour since that appt

Well that's not fair! If I can't have a sense of humour, then who's left that's going to laugh at my jokes?

Puja

Oakboy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I think Puja’s point about Watson was tongue in cheek, to add to the running EMB joke that Watson doesn’t play fullback. (Edit: YES!!!)
From what I’ve seen of Nowell on his fb cameos, he’s no more suited to fb than May, Woodburn or Monye. No idea on Daly as I haven’t seen him play there in years.
Fb is a bit of a problem position. Other than Watson, we have players filling in and a rapidly declining Brown. I’d hoped Haley would kick on from the SA tour but, if anything, he’s gone backwards.

You don't mention Slade. At present I wonder if he's edging into Eddie's mind as 1st choice 13 with JJ slightly off his best and Tuilagi some distance off competitive fitness. Should either of those two re-emerge as better 13 prospects, might Slade switch to FB as too good to leave out? Maybe, Slade, Watson and Daly would be a preferred unit for all-round solidity to Watson, May and Daly, for example.

No, I don’t. Might as well choose Goode if we want a playmaking fullback. Also, he has virtually no experience in the position. At least the others have had a run of games in the position. Slade would need to get in to the team before being deemed too good to leave out.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I think Puja’s point about Watson was tongue in cheek, to add to the running EMB joke that Watson doesn’t play fullback. (Edit: YES!!!)
From what I’ve seen of Nowell on his fb cameos, he’s no more suited to fb than May, Woodburn or Monye. No idea on Daly as I haven’t seen him play there in years.
Fb is a bit of a problem position. Other than Watson, we have players filling in and a rapidly declining Brown. I’d hoped Haley would kick on from the SA tour but, if anything, he’s gone backwards.

Daly went to fb a couple of times for England and the Lions iirc.
Puja is a mod and doesn’t do humour since that appt

He’s far too important for that

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: Puja is a mod and doesn’t do humour since that appt

Well that's not fair! If I can't have a sense of humour, then who's left that's going to laugh at my jokes?

Puja

Life’s not fair

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I think Puja’s point about Watson was tongue in cheek, to add to the running EMB joke that Watson doesn’t play fullback. (Edit: YES!!!)
From what I’ve seen of Nowell on his fb cameos, he’s no more suited to fb than May, Woodburn or Monye. No idea on Daly as I haven’t seen him play there in years.
Fb is a bit of a problem position. Other than Watson, we have players filling in and a rapidly declining Brown. I’d hoped Haley would kick on from the SA tour but, if anything, he’s gone backwards.

Daly went to fb a couple of times for England and the Lions iirc.
Puja is a mod and doesn’t do humour since that appt

He’s far too important for that

Daly was indeed far too important to send on the jamboree, but it's done now and hopefully he's not injured for too long

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: Daly went to fb a couple of times for England and the Lions iirc.
Puja is a mod and doesn’t do humour since that appt

He’s far too important for that

Daly was indeed far too important to send on the jamboree, but it's done now and hopefully he's not injured for too long

Fixed.

Kruis is buggered, JJ and Sinckler have gone into reverse and Mako is off his best. Itoje, luckily/unluckily has had an enforced rest. It's not as bad as it might have been, I suppose - just.

Austin makes some obvious but good points on hartley.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ies-jones/

Austin is simply right. He's nailed it.

Well I wouldn't pick Hartley (maybe EJ wouldn't do either if the rest of the side were different) but the only question Jones has to answer is whether the team might perform better with him in it.

there were a couple of moments in the last Saints match when Dylan got ahead of the ball and almost blocked his own players, but in a way I was pleased to see he was at least pushing the boat out a little and being willing to gamble on making a positive play for his side, too often he goes into his shell and seemingly looks to do his basics solidly and nothing else in case he attracts blame. It's not easy for him as a captain to drive his side on when it's not given to him to play like Keith Wood, and too there's a role for solid setpiece captains who speak well to the troops, but maybe like Steve Borthwick he's just never going to be a top test player

(I would be interested to hear Borthwick actually on whether he sees similar qualities to himself in Dylan, and whether Borthwick still thinks he was dropped too early by Johnno)

Digby wrote:there were a couple of moments in the last Saints match when Dylan got ahead of the ball and almost blocked his own players, but in a way I was pleased to see he was at least pushing the boat out a little and being willing to gamble on making a positive play for his side, too often he goes into his shell and seemingly looks to do his basics solidly and nothing else in case he attracts blame. It's not easy for him as a captain to drive his side on when it's not given to him to play like Keith Wood, and too there's a role for solid setpiece captains who speak well to the troops, but maybe like Steve Borthwick he's just never going to be a top test player

(I would be interested to hear Borthwick actually on whether he sees similar qualities to himself in Dylan, and whether Borthwick still thinks he was dropped too early by Johnno)

89 caps is a lot to find out that he is not a top test player. Says something about something!

I still remember his game for England A against Ireland A and thinking he was a real talent, and then it never quite happened for him, for whatever reason. A hell of career mind, and it's only since George there have been more widespread complaints, even when he was competing with Youngs and getting the nod there wasn't much ire