RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote:I don’t credit her with much but even she must be aware that basically everyone thinks the pair of them are total dickheads.

I’ve got to say I’ve never protested anything in my life but I feel like that crowd would be worth seeing.

Basically everyone other than the tens of millions that voted for them. In terms of number of votes May/this govt are the most popular ever. Hard to believe, I know, but thems the facts. (Well, I’m 90% certain that is a fact).

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I don’t credit her with much but even she must be aware that basically everyone thinks the pair of them are total dickheads.

I’ve got to say I’ve never protested anything in my life but I feel like that crowd would be worth seeing.

Basically everyone other than the tens of millions that voted for them. In terms of number of votes May/this govt are the most popular ever. Hard to believe, I know, but thems the facts. (Well, I’m 90% certain that is a fact).

I'd imagine a lot of Tory voters didn't feel their vote was other than a least worst option and not down to them liking May and the rest

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I don’t credit her with much but even she must be aware that basically everyone thinks the pair of them are total dickheads.

I’ve got to say I’ve never protested anything in my life but I feel like that crowd would be worth seeing.

Basically everyone other than the tens of millions that voted for them. In terms of number of votes May/this govt are the most popular ever. Hard to believe, I know, but thems the facts. (Well, I’m 90% certain that is a fact).

I'd imagine a lot of Tory voters didn't feel their vote was other than a least worst option and not down to them liking May and the rest

Doesn’t mean they all think she’s a total dickhead (are we ok to say this?). I’m no fan - I think she’s risk averse, slow to make up her mind and her agenda is always about trying to stop things rather than trying to achieve things - but I don’t think she’s a total dickhead. I doubt many Conservatives do, even if they think her a poor PM. To cut a long story shot, not liking does not equal thinking she’s a dickhead. There will be a few but it certainly won’t add up to ‘basically everyone thinks the pair of them are total dickheads’. Even if you take hyperbole in to account, and I’m assuming there’s a very heavy dose of it, it’s miles wide of the mark.

Mind what do I know. Of recent/current options I'd vote for Nick Clegg, and there's no way lots of people don't think him a dickhead

In a new low for Washington, yesterday @chefjoseandres was asked to leave the Alfalfa dinner after-party at @CafeMilanoDC by its owner, Franco Nuschesse, apparently because his presence made Ivanka Trump uncomfortable (Cafe Milano is the watering hole of the Trump Admin).

Chef Jose Andres, with his own hands and his own money and his own efforts, has fed countless more people in Puerto Rico, people without food, than FEMA has.

He and the chef / owner(s) of Milano are really good friends. He was invited to that party by them. But Ivanka got him removed. That's not even LEGAL.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.co ... from_event

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Basically everyone other than the tens of millions that voted for them. In terms of number of votes May/this govt are the most popular ever. Hard to believe, I know, but thems the facts. (Well, I’m 90% certain that is a fact).

I'd imagine a lot of Tory voters didn't feel their vote was other than a least worst option and not down to them liking May and the rest

Doesn’t mean they all think she’s a total dickhead (are we ok to say this?). I’m no fan - I think she’s risk averse, slow to make up her mind and her agenda is always about trying to stop things rather than trying to achieve things - but I don’t think she’s a total dickhead. I doubt many Conservatives do, even if they think her a poor PM. To cut a long story shot, not liking does not equal thinking she’s a dickhead. There will be a few but it certainly won’t add up to ‘basically everyone thinks the pair of them are total dickheads’. Even if you take hyperbole in to account, and I’m assuming there’s a very heavy dose of it, it’s miles wide of the mark.

May is a better squad player than captain.

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:
I'd imagine a lot of Tory voters didn't feel their vote was other than a least worst option and not down to them liking May and the rest

Doesn’t mean they all think she’s a total dickhead (are we ok to say this?). I’m no fan - I think she’s risk averse, slow to make up her mind and her agenda is always about trying to stop things rather than trying to achieve things - but I don’t think she’s a total dickhead. I doubt many Conservatives do, even if they think her a poor PM. To cut a long story shot, not liking does not equal thinking she’s a dickhead. There will be a few but it certainly won’t add up to ‘basically everyone thinks the pair of them are total dickheads’. Even if you take hyperbole in to account, and I’m assuming there’s a very heavy dose of it, it’s miles wide of the mark.

May is a dickhead

Exactly.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Doesn’t mean they all think she’s a total dickhead (are we ok to say this?). I’m no fan - I think she’s risk averse, slow to make up her mind and her agenda is always about trying to stop things rather than trying to achieve things - but I don’t think she’s a total dickhead. I doubt many Conservatives do, even if they think her a poor PM. To cut a long story shot, not liking does not equal thinking she’s a dickhead. There will be a few but it certainly won’t add up to ‘basically everyone thinks the pair of them are total dickheads’. Even if you take hyperbole in to account, and I’m assuming there’s a very heavy dose of it, it’s miles wide of the mark.

May is a dickhead

Exactly.

Always was, and she’s not even a great squad player - see students counting towards immigration numbers. Still doesn’t equate to everyone thinking she’s a dickhead.

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:
May is a dickhead

Exactly.

Always was, and she’s not even a great squad player - see students counting towards immigration numbers. Still doesn’t equate to everyone thinking she’s a dickhead.

Not unless one allows it's quite possible most people think politicians are inherently dickish, then as in many ways she wouldn't standout from the crowd

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
Exactly.

Always was, and she’s not even a great squad player - see students counting towards immigration numbers. Still doesn’t equate to everyone thinking she’s a dickhead.

Not unless one allows it's quite possible most people think politicians are inherently dickish, then as in many ways she wouldn't standout from the crowd

Which makes the original point moot rather than wrong, but still brings us to pretty much the same point.

May has some good qualities but many of her positives were more a reflection of her advisors and their aggressive role.

She lacks any inspirational quality which is her weakness and any idea of what Brexit should look like in a sensible world, which sums up much of the establishment at large.

In many ways having a leader who's a bit bland, likely to steer some middle course, and isn't a great ideologue or reformer isn't a bad thing. Still, Brexit means Brexit remains one of the great asinine lines

It's only a good thing if they decide that is what they're going to do and then actually do it. At the moment we have paralysis which is worse than almost anything else, other than Corbyn or Rees-Mogg.

Doing nothing is often a good thing for many managers as they're actually a bit shit. Sadly many are convinced of their greatness and that from their actions good things will result. God knows what the right path is on Brexit, either what the country wants or what can be carried by either the Tories or Labour.

So, this State of the Uniom bollocks.

It's just a wankfest right?

Trump mentions something that appeals to core values and cue the applause. Rinse and repeat.

Woo...Yeah...

U-S-A.

I wonder if someone's ego is going to get a much needed boost by having the majority of congress knocking one out after every sentence?

Digby wrote:In many ways having a leader who's a bit bland, likely to steer some middle course, and isn't a great ideologue or reformer isn't a bad thing. Still, Brexit means Brexit remains one of the great asinine lines

I think this is generally right, however, it has its limits. Those limits are when the Government is facing something unique and extraordinary*, and I would argue that negotiating the country out of the EU is one of those unique and extraordinary events. In this case, it requires someone with imagination, courage, and above all, the leadership skills required to bring the country along behind them. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but May fails on every count. I suspect that she may have made an average PM in more normal times, but she's a shambles right now.

*I accept the argument that all Governments face events that are unique and to some extent extraordinary at some point - some that come to mind are the ERM shambles during Major's time, the banking crisis, the Scottish Referendum. I'm sure there are plenty more. However, I don't think any of those events (however severe they may have been) were as multi-dimensional or as far-reaching as Brexit.

Stones of granite wrote:

Digby wrote:In many ways having a leader who's a bit bland, likely to steer some middle course, and isn't a great ideologue or reformer isn't a bad thing. Still, Brexit means Brexit remains one of the great asinine lines

I think this is generally right, however, it has its limits. Those limits are when the Government is facing something unique and extraordinary*, and I would argue that negotiating the country out of the EU is one of those unique and extraordinary events. In this case, it requires someone with imagination, courage, and above all, the leadership skills required to bring the country along behind them. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but May fails on every count. I suspect that she may have made an average PM in more normal times, but she's a shambles right now.

*I accept the argument that all Governments face events that are unique and to some extent extraordinary at some point - some that come to mind are the ERM shambles during Major's time, the banking crisis, the Scottish Referendum. I'm sure there are plenty more. However, I don't think any of those events (however severe they may have been) were as multi-dimensional or as far-reaching as Brexit.

I agree this is an extraordinary situation, though even if we scrap May who clearly isn't suited to this there's nobody who does seem suited. If May goes we're likely to get an ideologue from the right, and if May going or the ideologue on the right the ends in the Tories going we're going to get an ideologue on the left instead. And I remain very concerned given how easy it was to encourage people into voting for a simplistic nativistic approach, e.g. kick out a foreign type and you'll get a job and/or your wages will go up, that when that doesn't work where will voters be drawn next? Twenty years ago I never understood how the National Socialists ever came to power, as of today it looks all too easy in the next twenty we could repeat that.

Digby wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Digby wrote:In many ways having a leader who's a bit bland, likely to steer some middle course, and isn't a great ideologue or reformer isn't a bad thing. Still, Brexit means Brexit remains one of the great asinine lines

I think this is generally right, however, it has its limits. Those limits are when the Government is facing something unique and extraordinary*, and I would argue that negotiating the country out of the EU is one of those unique and extraordinary events. In this case, it requires someone with imagination, courage, and above all, the leadership skills required to bring the country along behind them. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but May fails on every count. I suspect that she may have made an average PM in more normal times, but she's a shambles right now.

*I accept the argument that all Governments face events that are unique and to some extent extraordinary at some point - some that come to mind are the ERM shambles during Major's time, the banking crisis, the Scottish Referendum. I'm sure there are plenty more. However, I don't think any of those events (however severe they may have been) were as multi-dimensional or as far-reaching as Brexit.

I agree this is an extraordinary situation, though even if we scrap May who clearly isn't suited to this there's nobody who does seem suited. If May goes we're likely to get an ideologue from the right, and if May going or the ideologue on the right the ends in the Tories going we're going to get an ideologue on the left instead. And I remain very concerned given how easy it was to encourage people into voting for a simplistic nativistic approach, e.g. kick out a foreign type and you'll get a job and/or your wages will go up, that when that doesn't work where will voters be drawn next? Twenty years ago I never understood how the National Socialists ever came to power, as of today it looks all too easy in the next twenty we could repeat that.

I can't disagree with any of that. We seem to have a generation of utterly useless politicians.

Stones of granite wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: I think this is generally right, however, it has its limits. Those limits are when the Government is facing something unique and extraordinary*, and I would argue that negotiating the country out of the EU is one of those unique and extraordinary events. In this case, it requires someone with imagination, courage, and above all, the leadership skills required to bring the country along behind them. This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but May fails on every count. I suspect that she may have made an average PM in more normal times, but she's a shambles right now.

*I accept the argument that all Governments face events that are unique and to some extent extraordinary at some point - some that come to mind are the ERM shambles during Major's time, the banking crisis, the Scottish Referendum. I'm sure there are plenty more. However, I don't think any of those events (however severe they may have been) were as multi-dimensional or as far-reaching as Brexit.

I agree this is an extraordinary situation, though even if we scrap May who clearly isn't suited to this there's nobody who does seem suited. If May goes we're likely to get an ideologue from the right, and if May going or the ideologue on the right the ends in the Tories going we're going to get an ideologue on the left instead. And I remain very concerned given how easy it was to encourage people into voting for a simplistic nativistic approach, e.g. kick out a foreign type and you'll get a job and/or your wages will go up, that when that doesn't work where will voters be drawn next? Twenty years ago I never understood how the National Socialists ever came to power, as of today it looks all too easy in the next twenty we could repeat that.

I can't disagree with any of that. We seem to have a generation of utterly useless politicians.

They seem to be either utterly useless or completely self serving.

canta_brian wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Digby wrote:
I agree this is an extraordinary situation, though even if we scrap May who clearly isn't suited to this there's nobody who does seem suited. If May goes we're likely to get an ideologue from the right, and if May going or the ideologue on the right the ends in the Tories going we're going to get an ideologue on the left instead. And I remain very concerned given how easy it was to encourage people into voting for a simplistic nativistic approach, e.g. kick out a foreign type and you'll get a job and/or your wages will go up, that when that doesn't work where will voters be drawn next? Twenty years ago I never understood how the National Socialists ever came to power, as of today it looks all too easy in the next twenty we could repeat that.

I can't disagree with any of that. We seem to have a generation of utterly useless politicians.

They seem to be either utterly useless or completely self serving.

Voters rejected en masse the Lib Dem/Conservative somewhat awkward coalition. Given that it's not maybe a surprise the political parties have moved more toward the extremes. Some of that is down to our electoral system, but it's on the voters as well as the politicians we are where we are.

Things you never thought you'd see, the President of the USA and the FBI stood in effect outside a dance club as the crowd bays fight, fight, fight!

Also odd that the Republicans are putting distance between themselves and being the party of law & order

Digby wrote:In many ways having a leader who's a bit bland, likely to steer some middle course, and isn't a great ideologue or reformer isn't a bad thing. Still, Brexit means Brexit remains one of the great asinine lines

Theres definitely an argument against politicians who feel that they have to make changes for the sake of it - steady as she goes is often not a bad policy.

Sadly we are in the middle of the biggest upheaval in UK politics for generations with no consensus on what we should do next. Brexit has been compared to WWII, but at least then there was a binary choice for a politician like Churchill to deal with. Today, there are many complex options which may or may not satisfy the electorate given the nature of the referendum question. Added to which we have the anti EU zealots who are already ready to throw in a grenade if they feel the government is being too weak.

Whats interesting is the lack of unity from the remain side, or at least those who want a softer Brexit. Hammond seems to be on his own a lot when his views are probably aligned to much of what the Labour party wants. Yet the majority of the noise on Brexit is coming from the Conservative right.

Digby wrote:Things you never thought you'd see, the President of the USA and the FBI stood in effect outside a dance club as the crowd bays fight, fight, fight!

Also odd that the Republicans are putting distance between themselves and being the party of law & order

Its pathetic. And I suspect that the initial leaked memo will raise right wing blood pressure, then the full document will be leaked which will show it was taken out of context.

Will Trump dare to sack Mueller and hope the initial wave of support is enough to blunt any recriminations? I was reading the other day that the Whitehouse lawyers aren't too worried by the investigation digging up evidence of Trump personally colluding, but are worried that Trump might perjure himself in the process due to him inhabiting an alternative factual reality. A happy thought.