RugbyRebels

morepork wrote:When someone is positive, they are isolated and housed in an aseptic environment until such time they recover. There is no effective treatment because there is no drug that nukes this species of coronavirus. This is not country specific, it is a consensus course of action rooted in biological reality. You isolate the patient, dampen the immune response with steroids and hope to fuck the body heals without having to intubate. The doctor is peddling anecdote . There is no drug, course of treatment or biologic that therapeutically targets coronavirus. This bears repeating, and if your doctor is claiming such in the absence of hard data, then that doctor is irresponsible to the point of violating the Hippocratic oath.

It’s a global pandemic, not a localized infection that is the product thereof.

When to intubate, though? It's absolute last case?

If we are having a conversation that contains "when to intubate" and "100% success rate" in the same line then there is some redundancy in the narrative. You intubate when no other options are available to keep the patient alive, and for severe covid, there are no other options. This is why health facilities the world over are overwhelmed. Get fucking vaccinated. Vicks Vapour rub is a poor substitute.

morepork wrote:When someone is positive, they are isolated and housed in an aseptic environment until such time they recover. There is no effective treatment because there is no drug that nukes this species of coronavirus. This is not country specific, it is a consensus course of action rooted in biological reality. You isolate the patient, dampen the immune response with steroids and hope to fuck the body heals without having to intubate. The doctor is peddling anecdote . There is no drug, course of treatment or biologic that therapeutically targets coronavirus. This bears repeating, and if your doctor is claiming such in the absence of hard data, then that doctor is irresponsible to the point of violating the Hippocratic oath.

It’s a global pandemic, not a localized infection that is the product thereof.

morepork wrote:If we are having a conversation that contains "when to intubate" and "100% success rate" in the same line then there is some redundancy in the narrative. You intubate when no other options are available to keep the patient alive, and for severe covid, there are no other options. This is why health facilities the world over are overwhelmed. Get fucking vaccinated. Vicks Vapour rub is a poor substitute.

We have a narrative problem, because the reason Hungary (and Romania) have such appalling death rates right now, is that they're intubating everyone...

You confirmed what I thought about the protocol and it's why people here have such a different view about the virus. All they can see is that everyone who gets to hospital dies...

It's just they manage things so badly over here it's like they either want to kill them all, or sticking to their protocol is more important than actually saving lives...

You also have to remember that all the good doctors have left, long ago, to get paid an actual wage in the UK or Spain or Germany.

These Covid masks are starting to give me ears like Leo Cullen

Stom wrote:

morepork wrote:If we are having a conversation that contains "when to intubate" and "100% success rate" in the same line then there is some redundancy in the narrative. You intubate when no other options are available to keep the patient alive, and for severe covid, there are no other options. This is why health facilities the world over are overwhelmed. Get fucking vaccinated. Vicks Vapour rub is a poor substitute.

We have a narrative problem, because the reason Hungary (and Romania) have such appalling death rates right now, is that they're intubating everyone...

You confirmed what I thought about the protocol and it's why people here have such a different view about the virus. All they can see is that everyone who gets to hospital dies...

It's just they manage things so badly over here it's like they either want to kill them all, or sticking to their protocol is more important than actually saving lives...

You also have to remember that all the good doctors have left, long ago, to get paid an actual wage in the UK or Spain or Germany.

Fook mun. Anyone claiming to successfully treat "like a chest infection" should be an immediate red flag. And I don't understand your implication that intubation makes you sick (if I am reading that correctly). If someone is intubated, they are fucking sick already.

Numbers wrote:These Covid masks are starting to give me ears like Leo Cullen

Surely it's more likely you looked like Leo to begin with

morepork wrote:

Stom wrote:

morepork wrote:If we are having a conversation that contains "when to intubate" and "100% success rate" in the same line then there is some redundancy in the narrative. You intubate when no other options are available to keep the patient alive, and for severe covid, there are no other options. This is why health facilities the world over are overwhelmed. Get fucking vaccinated. Vicks Vapour rub is a poor substitute.

We have a narrative problem, because the reason Hungary (and Romania) have such appalling death rates right now, is that they're intubating everyone...

You confirmed what I thought about the protocol and it's why people here have such a different view about the virus. All they can see is that everyone who gets to hospital dies...

It's just they manage things so badly over here it's like they either want to kill them all, or sticking to their protocol is more important than actually saving lives...

You also have to remember that all the good doctors have left, long ago, to get paid an actual wage in the UK or Spain or Germany.

Fook mun. Anyone claiming to successfully treat "like a chest infection" should be an immediate red flag. And I don't understand your implication that intubation makes you sick (if I am reading that correctly). If someone is intubated, they are fucking sick already.

Being put on a ventilator isn't great for someone's lungs though (especially when it comes to trying to take them off again), so if people are being put on one unnecessarily while having a respiratory disease, it does lower their chances.

Puja

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:

Stom wrote:
We have a narrative problem, because the reason Hungary (and Romania) have such appalling death rates right now, is that they're intubating everyone...

You confirmed what I thought about the protocol and it's why people here have such a different view about the virus. All they can see is that everyone who gets to hospital dies...

It's just they manage things so badly over here it's like they either want to kill them all, or sticking to their protocol is more important than actually saving lives...

You also have to remember that all the good doctors have left, long ago, to get paid an actual wage in the UK or Spain or Germany.

Fook mun. Anyone claiming to successfully treat "like a chest infection" should be an immediate red flag. And I don't understand your implication that intubation makes you sick (if I am reading that correctly). If someone is intubated, they are fucking sick already.

Being put on a ventilator isn't great for someone's lungs though (especially when it comes to trying to take them off again), so if people are being put on one unnecessarily while having a respiratory disease, it does lower their chances.

Puja

What he said.

We’ve got the highest death rate once admitted to hospital.

My view on the woman was that she was only visited by people who had chest infections because, well, that was her speciality, so of course she had a good success rate. Anyone who had it worse didn’t get to her, they got to hospital...

But it does raise questions and is worth looking into, no? I mean how hard is it to test?

Stom wrote:

morepork wrote:If we are having a conversation that contains "when to intubate" and "100% success rate" in the same line then there is some redundancy in the narrative. You intubate when no other options are available to keep the patient alive, and for severe covid, there are no other options. This is why health facilities the world over are overwhelmed. Get fucking vaccinated. Vicks Vapour rub is a poor substitute.

We have a narrative problem, because the reason Hungary (and Romania) have such appalling death rates right now, is that they're intubating everyone...

You confirmed what I thought about the protocol and it's why people here have such a different view about the virus. All they can see is that everyone who gets to hospital dies...

It's just they manage things so badly over here it's like they either want to kill them all, or sticking to their protocol is more important than actually saving lives...

You also have to remember that all the good doctors have left, long ago, to get paid an actual wage in the UK or Spain or Germany.

Do you have any facts on this though? What % of those hospitalised are intubated? What % of those intubated die?

I doubt that your doctors are intubating patients unless they need it to stay alive. And once intubated your chance of dying is pretty high anywhere in the world.

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:

Fook mun. Anyone claiming to successfully treat "like a chest infection" should be an immediate red flag. And I don't understand your implication that intubation makes you sick (if I am reading that correctly). If someone is intubated, they are fucking sick already.

Being put on a ventilator isn't great for someone's lungs though (especially when it comes to trying to take them off again), so if people are being put on one unnecessarily while having a respiratory disease, it does lower their chances.

Puja

What he said.

We’ve got the highest death rate once admitted to hospital.

My view on the woman was that she was only visited by people who had chest infections because, well, that was her speciality, so of course she had a good success rate. Anyone who had it worse didn’t get to her, they got to hospital...

But it does raise questions and is worth looking into, no? I mean how hard is it to test?

So Hungary has a surfeit of ventilators apparently, and is applying them willy nilly. Again, intubation is a last resort, as in, no ventillator no breathy.

From what I can see, Hungary presents with the globally consistent 3% mortality rate with covid. I don't see any data for death rates once hospitalised, but I don't live there so I may be missing something.

And....anyone who had what? Dr. Vicks Vapour Rub obtains evidence of viral genomes in patients? How hard is it to test? Not so much on paper, but if you want reproducible data and not anecdotal witchcraft, you need a controlled clinical trial, and resources for those are scarce at the moment (i'm talking expertise, reagents, lab supplies PPE, and appropriate oversight) so I would have pretty limited enthusiasm for an anecdotal reference taking up resources in an environment where there is a 3-4 back order on needles and syringes...

Just sayin...

Digby wrote:

Numbers wrote:These Covid masks are starting to give me ears like Leo Cullen

Surely it's more likely you looked like Leo to begin with

Yes, I am the BFG and you win £10.

Numbers wrote:

Digby wrote:

Numbers wrote:These Covid masks are starting to give me ears like Leo Cullen

Surely it's more likely you looked like Leo to begin with

Yes, I am the BFG and you win £10.

£10, when did it go up to £10? How are we getting so much inflation without interest rates going up? I'd like to have been off to the pub, but now I guess I'll take my £10 buy a few bottles of beer and just talk to myself about the rugby, because nobody I live with cares remotely about the rugby other than to say please turn off the rugby

Are you having a moment Diggers old chap? Do you need assistance?

Digby wrote:

Numbers wrote:

Digby wrote:
Surely it's more likely you looked like Leo to begin with

Yes, I am the BFG and you win £10.

£10, when did it go up to £10? How are we getting so much inflation without interest rates going up? I'd like to have been off to the pub, but now I guess I'll take my £10 buy a few bottles of beer and just talk to myself about the rugby, because nobody I live with cares remotely about the rugby other than to say please turn off the rugby

I feel your pain.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Numbers wrote:
Yes, I am the BFG and you win £10.

£10, when did it go up to £10? How are we getting so much inflation without interest rates going up? I'd like to have been off to the pub, but now I guess I'll take my £10 buy a few bottles of beer and just talk to myself about the rugby, because nobody I live with cares remotely about the rugby other than to say please turn off the rugby

I feel your pain.

I've been out for a bike ride with the kid, and bought a few bottles of beer, and accidentally what looks a few bottles of wine, on the way back. Sadly the shop wanted more than £10. This is still as exciting as it gets for now

Digby wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote: £10, when did it go up to £10? How are we getting so much inflation without interest rates going up? I'd like to have been off to the pub, but now I guess I'll take my £10 buy a few bottles of beer and just talk to myself about the rugby, because nobody I live with cares remotely about the rugby other than to say please turn off the rugby

I feel your pain.

I've been out for a bike ride with the kid, and bought a few bottles of beer, and accidentally what looks a few bottles of wine, on the way back. Sadly the shop wanted more than £10. This is still as exciting as it gets for now

What is the world coming to?

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: I feel your pain.

I've been out for a bike ride with the kid, and bought a few bottles of beer, and accidentally what looks a few bottles of wine, on the way back. Sadly the shop wanted more than £10. This is still as exciting as it gets for now

What is the world coming to?

Thankfully it is thread relevant as I did get a case of Corona. (which is a selection that keeps in mind the sort of person who says turn off the rugby please)

Digby wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote: I've been out for a bike ride with the kid, and bought a few bottles of beer, and accidentally what looks a few bottles of wine, on the way back. Sadly the shop wanted more than £10. This is still as exciting as it gets for now

What is the world coming to?

Thankfully it is thread relevant as I did get a case of Corona. (which is a selection that keeps in mind the sort of person who says turn off the rugby please)

Fuck. It took me a good 10 minutes after reading to process this and let my brain gently come to the realisation that Corona = beer. Time for a HIA.

morepork wrote:

Digby wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: What is the world coming to?

Thankfully it is thread relevant as I did get a case of Corona. (which is a selection that keeps in mind the sort of person who says turn off the rugby please)

Fuck. It took me a good 10 minutes after reading to process this and let my brain gently come to the realisation that Corona = beer. Time for a HIA.

It's something of a dubious claim that Corona=Beer even then. It's cold, it's fizzy, it's oddly more acceptable to many than an ale

It might be time to have a beer yourself, sit back, and think on the wonder of Owen Farrell's incisive running game

I'm still at work you work shy bastard.

I bought beer and wine, not a violin

Jesus.

So, I've not been reading or watching the news at all recently. A lot of people here have been talking about the deaths after the vaccines. I've not bothered to look it up to refute it... today I did.

I mean, seriously people?

900odd dead of 52m?

0.000018%...

Stom wrote:Jesus.

So, I've not been reading or watching the news at all recently. A lot of people here have been talking about the deaths after the vaccines. I've not bothered to look it up to refute it... today I did.

I mean, seriously people?

900odd dead of 52m?

0.000018%...

There hasn't been a single case of death caused directly by a vaccine. There have been people that have died after getting a vaccine, but not because of the vaccine.

End of chat.

morepork wrote:

Stom wrote:Jesus.

So, I've not been reading or watching the news at all recently. A lot of people here have been talking about the deaths after the vaccines. I've not bothered to look it up to refute it... today I did.

I mean, seriously people?

900odd dead of 52m?

0.000018%...

There hasn't been a single case of death caused directly by a vaccine. There have been people that have died after getting a vaccine, but not because of the vaccine.

End of chat.

Well yeah. And the numbers of people dying are low, even for normality...

I mean, it takes a good couple of weeks for you to get full immunity and we know how people can be, so you'd expect more covid deaths. 20 of 113 deaths in Germany have been from Covid.

It really feels like people have an expectation of 0 deaths, otherwise the vaccine is useless and shouldn't be given. I mean, it might prove useless in the future, if Covid mutates like flu away from the vaccine, but it's not exactly killing people is it? "But all the people in this nursing home have died!" Where did you hear that?

BUT this 30 year old woman in Slovakia died from it. Again, where did you hear that, oh from 1 website and oh look, that's been taken down now, too...

sigh.

OK, I'm back on my news break.