Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.Banquo wrote:Exactly my point. So the roundhead Ramsey dropped the cavalier Jimmy, and won a World Cup. OuchOakboy wrote:My hero! Scored goals by 'passing to the stanchion' as Bill Nicholson suggested. I was at Wembley in 66 as a schoolboy when they played France in the league stage right by the left wing corner flag. When Bobby Moore signalled for an outswinging corner, Greaves took it with his left foot. When the signal was for an inswinger he took it with his right. Absolute skill.Banquo wrote: You'd never have dropped Greavsie though Dors....
I've been a devotee of pure skill in ball games ever since.
EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
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- Spiffy
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
- Oakboy
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.Spiffy wrote:Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.Banquo wrote:Exactly my point. So the roundhead Ramsey dropped the cavalier Jimmy, and won a World Cup. OuchOakboy wrote:
My hero! Scored goals by 'passing to the stanchion' as Bill Nicholson suggested. I was at Wembley in 66 as a schoolboy when they played France in the league stage right by the left wing corner flag. When Bobby Moore signalled for an outswinging corner, Greaves took it with his left foot. When the signal was for an inswinger he took it with his right. Absolute skill.
I've been a devotee of pure skill in ball games ever since.
Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
It was Hurst ahead of Greaves; Hunt and Greaves started, but then JImmy was injured, and Hurst replaced him, and was kept even when Greaves was fit again. Jimmy retired from intl football the following year, only 27....Ramsey cocked that upOakboy wrote:Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.Spiffy wrote:Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.Banquo wrote: Exactly my point. So the roundhead Ramsey dropped the cavalier Jimmy, and won a World Cup. Ouch
Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.
- Oakboy
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
True, but to be fair, pretty sure his alcohol problem had started by then.Banquo wrote:It was Hurst ahead of Greaves; Hunt and Greaves started, but then JImmy was injured, and Hurst replaced him, and was kept even when Greaves was fit again. Jimmy retired from intl football the following year, only 27....Ramsey cocked that upOakboy wrote:Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.Spiffy wrote:
Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.
Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
maybe.- he stopped playing top level initially at 30Oakboy wrote:True, but to be fair, pretty sure his alcohol problem had started by then.Banquo wrote:It was Hurst ahead of Greaves; Hunt and Greaves started, but then JImmy was injured, and Hurst replaced him, and was kept even when Greaves was fit again. Jimmy retired from intl football the following year, only 27....Ramsey cocked that upOakboy wrote:
Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.
Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Just seen that Joe Marler been red carded. Silly boy.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Shocking.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
And Quins lost 30-29 in what must have been the last minute. Fuc%ing livid.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Any idea what he did?
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Dangerous clearout at a ruck. Shoulder/arm on opponents head possibly?
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
I haven’t seen it yet, but apparently a shoulder charge to Ioane’s head at the side of ruck that was already lost.
Idiotic. Again ...
Even more annoying considering was in the 58th minute when we were winning.
Apparently Robshaw scored a try in the last minute that was ruled out very contentiously.
To come away with 2 points when we could have had 5 is gutting.
Idiotic. Again ...
Even more annoying considering was in the 58th minute when we were winning.
Apparently Robshaw scored a try in the last minute that was ruled out very contentiously.
To come away with 2 points when we could have had 5 is gutting.
- Mellsblue
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
I hope the irony of him being one of the loudest complainants of Yarde’s off-field attitide whilst having such a poor on-field attitude is not lost on Marler. I fear it is.
- Mellsblue
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Just seen it. Idiot.
- Spiffy
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
You could see it coming. He was still smarting from a few plays earlier and was obviously determined to clobber somebody. Time for Jones to offload him. He is a liability and not even that good a prop.Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.
- Mellsblue
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
As long as he doesn’t do it in an England shirt he seems just sort of the player Jones would like. I’d also say he’s a very good prop.Spiffy wrote:You could see it coming. He was still smarting from a few plays earlier and was obviously determined to clobber somebody. Time for Jones to offload him. He is a liability and not even that good a prop.Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
I’ve seen it now.Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.
I’m not excusing foul play, but it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as I had expected. Healy’s on LCD was a lot worse IMO.
The issue for me, is that the intent was worse than the outcome. Marler wanted to hurt Ioane a lot more than he actually did. I get the feeling, he’s never going to learn.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
He’s not been a liability for England, and he’s a quality prop.Spiffy wrote:You could see it coming. He was still smarting from a few plays earlier and was obviously determined to clobber somebody. Time for Jones to offload him. He is a liability and not even that good a prop.Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Agreed. Having seen it now I reckon at least 50% of the time it’s a yellow.Scrumhead wrote:I’ve seen it now.Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.
I’m not excusing foul play, but it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as I had expected. Healy’s on LCD was a lot worse IMO.
As a non-Quins fan I have to say i’m mainly just happy that he’ll now get a decent rest going into the 6Nations and is unlikely to get himself injured.
- oldbackrow
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Or get another ban!Timbo wrote: Agreed. Having seen it now I reckon at least 50% of the time it’s a yellow.
As a non-Quins fan I have to say i’m mainly just happy that he’ll now get a decent rest going into the 6Nations and is unlikely to get himself injured.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Joe Marler it seems is neither stable nor a genius
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
He is an unlikeable arse
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Reminds one of Grewcock, seemingly a very nice bloke, who's a very good player, but on repeat basis has done something very stupid to let himself and his team down and also reflects badly on the game. The problem for me at this point is there have been so many incidents how does he set about rebuilding trust, and for me similar to Hartley I'm done on giving him any more chances, time to move on.
- Mellsblue
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Waiting for confirmation from him on Twitter.Digby wrote:Joe Marler it seems is neither stable nor a genius
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Someone at Sarries seems to have twigged that getting Billy V slimmed down a bit will help with the knees and ankles, whilst not really massively affecting his effectiveness.
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Re: EPS Watch / Player Form Thread
Marler's a twat. That really was stupid. He's bound to get a 3-4 week ban.