RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: You'd never have dropped Greavsie though Dors....

My hero! Scored goals by 'passing to the stanchion' as Bill Nicholson suggested. I was at Wembley in 66 as a schoolboy when they played France in the league stage right by the left wing corner flag. When Bobby Moore signalled for an outswinging corner, Greaves took it with his left foot. When the signal was for an inswinger he took it with his right. Absolute skill.

I've been a devotee of pure skill in ball games ever since.

Exactly my point. So the roundhead Ramsey dropped the cavalier Jimmy, and won a World Cup. Ouch

Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.

Spiffy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
My hero! Scored goals by 'passing to the stanchion' as Bill Nicholson suggested. I was at Wembley in 66 as a schoolboy when they played France in the league stage right by the left wing corner flag. When Bobby Moore signalled for an outswinging corner, Greaves took it with his left foot. When the signal was for an inswinger he took it with his right. Absolute skill.

I've been a devotee of pure skill in ball games ever since.

Exactly my point. So the roundhead Ramsey dropped the cavalier Jimmy, and won a World Cup. Ouch

Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.

Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.

Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.

Oakboy wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Banquo wrote: Exactly my point. So the roundhead Ramsey dropped the cavalier Jimmy, and won a World Cup. Ouch

Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.

Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.

Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.

It was Hurst ahead of Greaves; Hunt and Greaves started, but then JImmy was injured, and Hurst replaced him, and was kept even when Greaves was fit again. Jimmy retired from intl football the following year, only 27....Ramsey cocked that up

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Trying to think of an English rugby player who was roughly the equivalent of football's Jimmy Greaves - small, nippy, tough, cheeky, prolific scorer, game changer, X factor etc... Jason Robinson is probably the closest. Though it pains me to say it - Stuart Barnes at his his peak with Bath ticked a few boxes and certainly fits the cavalier mould.

Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.

Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.

It was Hurst ahead of Greaves; Hunt and Greaves started, but then JImmy was injured, and Hurst replaced him, and was kept even when Greaves was fit again. Jimmy retired from intl football the following year, only 27....Ramsey cocked that up

True, but to be fair, pretty sure his alcohol problem had started by then.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Maybe, the extreme of Hunt ahead of Greaves is more of a caricature. Farrell ahead of Ford or Cipriani might be a pragmatic choice on similar lines. Where the comparisons waver is the need for absolute physicality in rugby. A fully fit and on-form Tuilagi will offer something that the far more skilful JJ or Slade cannot.

Some relevance is also there in terms of gameplan. Can work rate and togetherness compensate for reduced skill? Take it all to its ultimate conclusion in rugby and there is no either/or. There has to be both as NZ currently demonstrate.

It was Hurst ahead of Greaves; Hunt and Greaves started, but then JImmy was injured, and Hurst replaced him, and was kept even when Greaves was fit again. Jimmy retired from intl football the following year, only 27....Ramsey cocked that up

True, but to be fair, pretty sure his alcohol problem had started by then.

maybe.- he stopped playing top level initially at 30

Just seen that Joe Marler been red carded. Silly boy.

Shocking.

And Quins lost 30-29 in what must have been the last minute. Fuc%ing livid.

Any idea what he did?

Dangerous clearout at a ruck. Shoulder/arm on opponents head possibly?

I haven’t seen it yet, but apparently a shoulder charge to Ioane’s head at the side of ruck that was already lost.

Idiotic. Again ...

Even more annoying considering was in the 58th minute when we were winning.

Apparently Robshaw scored a try in the last minute that was ruled out very contentiously.

To come away with 2 points when we could have had 5 is gutting.

I hope the irony of him being one of the loudest complainants of Yarde’s off-field attitide whilst having such a poor on-field attitude is not lost on Marler. I fear it is.

Just seen it. Idiot.

Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.

You could see it coming. He was still smarting from a few plays earlier and was obviously determined to clobber somebody. Time for Jones to offload him. He is a liability and not even that good a prop.

Spiffy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.

You could see it coming. He was still smarting from a few plays earlier and was obviously determined to clobber somebody. Time for Jones to offload him. He is a liability and not even that good a prop.

As long as he doesn’t do it in an England shirt he seems just sort of the player Jones would like. I’d also say he’s a very good prop.

Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.

I’ve seen it now.

I’m not excusing foul play, but it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as I had expected. Healy’s on LCD was a lot worse IMO.

The issue for me, is that the intent was worse than the outcome. Marler wanted to hurt Ioane a lot more than he actually did. I get the feeling, he’s never going to learn.

Spiffy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.

You could see it coming. He was still smarting from a few plays earlier and was obviously determined to clobber somebody. Time for Jones to offload him. He is a liability and not even that good a prop.

He’s not been a liability for England, and he’s a quality prop.

Scrumhead wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Just seen it. Idiot.

I’ve seen it now.

I’m not excusing foul play, but it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as I had expected. Healy’s on LCD was a lot worse IMO.

Agreed. Having seen it now I reckon at least 50% of the time it’s a yellow.

As a non-Quins fan I have to say i’m mainly just happy that he’ll now get a decent rest going into the 6Nations and is unlikely to get himself injured.

Timbo wrote: Agreed. Having seen it now I reckon at least 50% of the time it’s a yellow.

As a non-Quins fan I have to say i’m mainly just happy that he’ll now get a decent rest going into the 6Nations and is unlikely to get himself injured.

Or get another ban!

Joe Marler it seems is neither stable nor a genius

He is an unlikeable arse

Reminds one of Grewcock, seemingly a very nice bloke, who's a very good player, but on repeat basis has done something very stupid to let himself and his team down and also reflects badly on the game. The problem for me at this point is there have been so many incidents how does he set about rebuilding trust, and for me similar to Hartley I'm done on giving him any more chances, time to move on.

Digby wrote:Joe Marler it seems is neither stable nor a genius

Waiting for confirmation from him on Twitter.

Someone at Sarries seems to have twigged that getting Billy V slimmed down a bit will help with the knees and ankles, whilst not really massively affecting his effectiveness.

Marler's a twat. That really was stupid. He's bound to get a 3-4 week ban.