RugbyRebels

Honestly, I disagree. While Sinckler is clearly the best available, he hasn’t been the same player post RWC. Stuart has plenty of potential, but hasn’t really lived up to it to the extent that he should be assured of being second choice. Heyes is promising but honestly, I don’t think there’s a massive gap between him and Collier at all. In fact, I’d probably choose Collier ahead of Heyes.

Collier isn’t flashy but is excellent at the nuts and bolts. Given our scrum hasn’t been providing the best platform recently, that carries way more value for me than what he can/can’t do in the loose.

Scrumhead wrote:Honestly, I disagree. While Sinckler is clearly the best available, he hasn’t been the same player post RWC. Stuart has plenty of potential, but hasn’t really lived up to it to the extent that he should be assured of being second choice. Heyes is promising but honestly, I don’t think there’s a massive gap between him and Collier at all. In fact, I’d probably choose Collier ahead of Heyes.

Collier isn’t flashy but is excellent at the nuts and bolts. Given our scrum hasn’t been providing the best platform recently, that carries way more value for me than what he can/can’t do in the loose.

yep, sinckler's decline is quite a worry. Hopefully the rest will see him right.

Scrumhead wrote:Honestly, I disagree. While Sinckler is clearly the best available, he hasn’t been the same player post RWC. Stuart has plenty of potential, but hasn’t really lived up to it to the extent that he should be assured of being second choice. Heyes is promising but honestly, I don’t think there’s a massive gap between him and Collier at all. In fact, I’d probably choose Collier ahead of Heyes.

Collier isn’t flashy but is excellent at the nuts and bolts. Given our scrum hasn’t been providing the best platform recently, that carries way more value for me than what he can/can’t do in the loose.

I shall excitedly wait to be convinced by him then. Obviously haven't seen what you have, but would be pleased to have another decent option at tighthead.

Puja

BTW, I’m absolutely not proclaiming him as a world beater, but he’s come back really strongly after a few injury disrupted seasons. I thought he might be done a season or two back, but currently, he’s rightly keeping Wilco Louw (who is a very decent tighthead) as our second choice.

It feels like ages ago now, but when Sinckler first started to get attention for England, a lot of Quins fans felt it should have been Collier. They’re very different players, but Marler and Collier’s scrummaging and work rate have been a massive factor in our backs’ freedom to play.

feels a tad bald men fighting over a comb, and I should know

Banquo wrote:feels a tad bald men fighting over a comb, and I should know

Collier would have been an Aussie nat for half a decade by now. We could do worse.

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:feels a tad bald men fighting over a comb, and I should know

Collier would have been an Aussie nat for half a decade by now. We could do worse.

that's not the highest bar in the world x 2.

We could have done worse is a pretty decent metaphor for the england team a lot of the time- I blame you

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:feels a tad bald men fighting over a comb, and I should know

Collier would have been an Aussie nat for half a decade by now. We could do worse.

I don't know - I'd pick Tupou ahead of any of our options at tighthead on current form. I don't think we can rely on the usual "We'll just beast them in the scrums" confidence on this tour.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:feels a tad bald men fighting over a comb, and I should know

Collier would have been an Aussie nat for half a decade by now. We could do worse.

I don't know - I'd pick Tupou ahead of any of our options at tighthead on current form. I don't think we can rely on the usual "We'll just beast them in the scrums" confidence on this tour.

Puja

quite. Front row is a bit of a concern for me. Not uniquely tbh.

Collier could do a more than decent job. Thats not to be sniffed at when we're talking about a 3rd/4th choice player. i liken him to Ben Moon, who came in and did just fine when he stepped up due to injuries a couple of years back.

Telegraph reporting that Scotland interested in Fin Smith (plus Roebuck from Sale and Chapman from Glos). No great surprise but it will be galling to see another good young player developed in England opt for another country.

What’s the latest on Sale’s Harper? He was generating some excitement a while ago (among me at least) but I haven’t heard anything for ages. He was injured wasn’t he? Looked a genuine prospect before it all went quiet.

Our scrum went well in the 6 nations in fairness. Only the French scrum that gave us real issues, and even then it was pretty even over the 80.

I’d take Heyes, Stuart and Collier to Oz. Stuart probably goes as first choice, but I’d like to see Heyes start a test.

Beasties wrote:What’s the latest on Sale’s Harper? He was generating some excitement a while ago (among me at least) but I haven’t heard anything for ages. He was injured wasn’t he? Looked a genuine prospect before it all went quiet.

Injured then played a couple of prem cup games. Currently in Oz playing club rugby.

Timbo wrote:

Beasties wrote:What’s the latest on Sale’s Harper? He was generating some excitement a while ago (among me at least) but I haven’t heard anything for ages. He was injured wasn’t he? Looked a genuine prospect before it all went quiet.

Injured then played a couple of prem cup games. Currently in Oz playing club rugby.

He'll be hoping Eddie has a sudden front row crisis while on tour then.

Puja

Timbo wrote:Our scrum went well in the 6 nations in fairness. Only the French scrum that gave us real issues, and even then it was pretty even over the 80.

I’d take Heyes, Stuart and Collier to Oz. Stuart probably goes as first choice, but I’d like to see Heyes start a test.

Yep. Thats the way i'd go too.

I've lost track. What's the total absentee list now? Sinckler, Tuilagi, Slade . . .

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:

Beasties wrote:What’s the latest on Sale’s Harper? He was generating some excitement a while ago (among me at least) but I haven’t heard anything for ages. He was injured wasn’t he? Looked a genuine prospect before it all went quiet.

Injured then played a couple of prem cup games. Currently in Oz playing club rugby.

He'll be hoping Eddie has a sudden front row crisis while on tour then.

Puja

Throw him a cap anyway, just in case it turns out he's dual qualified there seems to be plenty of interest in English based youngsters currently. Man we could have really done with an England A game couldn't we. Hell we could have called it the England Pokémon side "gotta catch them all".

It looks like Chapman, Roebuck and Fin Smith all set to link up with Scotland this summer.

Oakboy wrote:I've lost track. What's the total absentee list now? Sinckler, Tuilagi, Slade . . .

You can add Quirke to that list. Not officially confirmed, but I doubt Marler or Launchbury will be touring either.

Ant Watson?
I know he's in the squad, but is he actually fit enough to play? Hasn't had a single minute on the bench for Bath since his last injury, nor been spotted on Captain's Runs etc - though there have been rumours about a falling out (mostly based on him doing his rehab rather than training, whilst rehabing an inury)

Which Tyler wrote:Ant Watson?
I know he's in the squad, but is he actually fit enough to play? Hasn't had a single minute on the bench for Bath since his last injury, nor been spotted on Captain's Runs etc - though there have been rumours about a falling out (mostly based on him doing his rehab rather than training, whilst rehabing an inury)

I can understand his position - he's got no incentive to rush back early from injury and risk yet another major setback, especially to play in that Bath team as things stand. Frankly, I hope he doesn't go with England even if he's just about fit - better to get himself 100% right, rather than go at 98% and risk a key season before the RWC.

What's the news on LCD atm? I know he's not training, but rehabbing with England.

Puja

FKAS wrote:

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:
Injured then played a couple of prem cup games. Currently in Oz playing club rugby.

He'll be hoping Eddie has a sudden front row crisis while on tour then.

Puja

Throw him a cap anyway, just in case it turns out he's dual qualified there seems to be plenty of interest in English based youngsters currently. Man we could have really done with an England A game couldn't we. Hell we could have called it the England Pokémon side "gotta catch them all".

It looks like Chapman, Roebuck and Fin Smith all set to link up with Scotland this summer.

Scotland squad just named and obviously Toonie's not been able to Redpath any of them - none of them feature, despite the squad omitting some big names like Russell, Harris and Hogg.

SDHoneymonster wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Puja wrote:
He'll be hoping Eddie has a sudden front row crisis while on tour then.

Puja

Throw him a cap anyway, just in case it turns out he's dual qualified there seems to be plenty of interest in English based youngsters currently. Man we could have really done with an England A game couldn't we. Hell we could have called it the England Pokémon side "gotta catch them all".

It looks like Chapman, Roebuck and Fin Smith all set to link up with Scotland this summer.

Scotland squad just named and obviously Toonie's not been able to Redpath any of them - none of them feature, despite the squad omitting some big names like Russell, Harris and Hogg.

Huh, that's surprising, especially with a Scotland A game and Scotland's history of trying to capture as many exiles as possible to expand their selection pool. Can only imagine that all three either strongly feel English or at least have ambitions and confidence that they can earn more than a token A cap if they keep progressing.

Makes it weirder that Smith isn't in the England training squad though.

Puja

Have we actually heard anything substantial from Jones (if such a thing exists) regarding his approach to this tour re: rest/injuries?

This conversation still seems mad to me when LCD, Sinkler, Hill, Lawes, Simmonds, Farrell and Watson have all had on-going injury issues since the Lions. Farrell and Lawes seem back to full health at least, and have hopefully had something of a break in that rehab period.

Puja wrote: What's the news on LCD atm? I know he's not training, but rehabbing with England.

Puja

Baxter has said all of Exeter’s England players will be fit to tour with the exception of Slade.

Puja wrote:

SDHoneymonster wrote:

FKAS wrote:
Throw him a cap anyway, just in case it turns out he's dual qualified there seems to be plenty of interest in English based youngsters currently. Man we could have really done with an England A game couldn't we. Hell we could have called it the England Pokémon side "gotta catch them all".

It looks like Chapman, Roebuck and Fin Smith all set to link up with Scotland this summer.

Scotland squad just named and obviously Toonie's not been able to Redpath any of them - none of them feature, despite the squad omitting some big names like Russell, Harris and Hogg.

Huh, that's surprising, especially with a Scotland A game and Scotland's history of trying to capture as many exiles as possible to expand their selection pool. Can only imagine that all three either strongly feel English or at least have ambitions and confidence that they can earn more than a token A cap if they keep progressing.

Makes it weirder that Smith isn't in the England training squad though.

Puja

Unless Smith has told both Unions he's going to play for England under 20s this summer and keep his options open until after the world cup.