RugbyRebels

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:24 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:40 am 9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

Has Lawes retired now?

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 1:21 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:24 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:40 am 9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

Has Lawes retired now?

yes

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:18 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:06 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:40 am 9. Mitchell/Quirke/JVP
10. Smith
12. Atkinson/Kelly
13. Lawrence

Is, if I’m being kind, brave. Add in the fact you’ll probs have a callow no8, unless Earl is the long term option, an out of form Steward and callow wingers…

The whole point, IMO, is that those names together with the likes of Arundell, T Willis etc. MAY have a higher ceiling than Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi, Vunipola etc. Our standard with the old guard was not good enough as successive 6Ns showed. We won't improve till we pick players who can potentially improve the standard, individually and collectively.

We have been 20 years with conservative selection, poor coaching and mostly poor results/performances. What is there to lose by taking risks now? We can't get any worse in terms of the 6N anyway.

But that’s moving from one extreme to the other when the answer lies in the middle, ie drip feed your most promising players into a team surrounded by experienced test players. I do feel sorry for Still Backwaters as Jones’s succession planning* was abysmal, and I have sympathy with your view for the same reason, but putting out a backline of newbies won’t, imo, do anything for their or the team’s development.
Him pissing off Marchant so much that he moved to the other end of the Eurostar may be his ‘best’ piece of work.

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:30 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:18 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:06 am

The whole point, IMO, is that those names together with the likes of Arundell, T Willis etc. MAY have a higher ceiling than Youngs, Ford, Farrell, Tuilagi, Vunipola etc. Our standard with the old guard was not good enough as successive 6Ns showed. We won't improve till we pick players who can potentially improve the standard, individually and collectively.

We have been 20 years with conservative selection, poor coaching and mostly poor results/performances. What is there to lose by taking risks now? We can't get any worse in terms of the 6N anyway.

But that’s moving from one extreme to the other when the answer lies in the middle, ie drip feed your most promising players into a team surrounded by experienced test players. I do feel sorry for Still Backwaters as Jones’s succession planning* was abysmal, and I have sympathy with your view for the same reason, but putting out a backline of newbies won’t, imo, do anything for their or the team’s development.
Him pissing off Marchant so much that he moved to the other end of the Eurostar may be his ‘best’ piece of work.

The problem with that is who those experienced players are…

As you said, Marchant is gone. Watson may be back, which is good. And if picked ahead of lukewarm boy, he’d be a good option. But that’s it. The rest are going to have to be callow.

I’d have Ford and Watson in my team, with Laurence probably at 13 unless you go for Tuilagi, and steward. And the rest? Callow. Because we’ve done feck all development and not won anything.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:46 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:30 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 11:18 am

But that’s moving from one extreme to the other when the answer lies in the middle, ie drip feed your most promising players into a team surrounded by experienced test players. I do feel sorry for Still Backwaters as Jones’s succession planning* was abysmal, and I have sympathy with your view for the same reason, but putting out a backline of newbies won’t, imo, do anything for their or the team’s development.
Him pissing off Marchant so much that he moved to the other end of the Eurostar may be his ‘best’ piece of work.

The problem with that is who those experienced players are…

As you said, Marchant is gone. Watson may be back, which is good. And if picked ahead of lukewarm boy, he’d be a good option. But that’s it. The rest are going to have to be callow.

I’d have Ford and Watson in my team, with Laurence probably at 13 unless you go for Tuilagi, and steward. And the rest? Callow. Because we’ve done feck all development and not won anything.

That’s my point re: Jones’s abysmal succession planning.
I agree on your names and I’d add Slade and Daly. Ideally, I’d move on from both but…

Mitchell
Ford/Smith
Callow/Daly
Callow/Lawrence (who is pretty callow himself)
Lawrence/Slade
Watson/Callow
Steward
that’s better than just picking a backline with Steward being your most experienced player because yoof.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:54 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:46 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:30 pm

The problem with that is who those experienced players are…

As you said, Marchant is gone. Watson may be back, which is good. And if picked ahead of lukewarm boy, he’d be a good option. But that’s it. The rest are going to have to be callow.

I’d have Ford and Watson in my team, with Laurence probably at 13 unless you go for Tuilagi, and steward. And the rest? Callow. Because we’ve done feck all development and not won anything.

That’s my point re: Jones’s abysmal succession planning.
I agree on your names and I’d add Slade and Daly. Ideally, I’d move on from both but…

Mitchell
Ford/Smith
Callow/Daly
Callow/Lawrence (who is pretty callow himself)
Lawrence/Slade
Watson/Callow
Steward
that’s better than just picking a backline with Steward being your most experienced player because yoof.

arundell? I've made callowances for his 10 caps

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 4:54 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:46 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:30 pm

The problem with that is who those experienced players are…

As you said, Marchant is gone. Watson may be back, which is good. And if picked ahead of lukewarm boy, he’d be a good option. But that’s it. The rest are going to have to be callow.

I’d have Ford and Watson in my team, with Laurence probably at 13 unless you go for Tuilagi, and steward. And the rest? Callow. Because we’ve done feck all development and not won anything.

That’s my point re: Jones’s abysmal succession planning.
I agree on your names and I’d add Slade and Daly. Ideally, I’d move on from both but…

Mitchell
Ford/Smith
Callow/Daly
Callow/Lawrence (who is pretty callow himself)
Lawrence/Slade
Watson/Callow
Steward
that’s better than just picking a backline with Steward being your most experienced player because yoof.

arundell? I've made callowances for his 10 caps

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:29 pm 9 Mitchell, Care, Warr
10. Ford, Smith, Smith
11. Freeman, Murley
12. Atkinson, Kelly
13. Lawrence, Slade
14. Watson, Daly
15. Steward, Arundell

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:18 pm Jake Garside on the wing for Bedford this weekend which I’m guessing is the final piece of evidence needed that his move is permanent.

“We had a very open conversation about what I need to improve and what he sees are my strengths. What impressed me was he didn’t focus on perceived weaknesses. He wanted to look at how he could help my strengths improve – my carrying through contact and beating the first defender was one of those qualities mentioned and Steve was like ‘I want to see you do more of it – go get the ball, find it and do your things that make Cadan special’, which is a great message. He cited Jack Nowell, ironically my hero growing up, as the player to watch, how he seeks the ball and so on.”

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:46 am Article and interview with Murley basically confirms that Scandalous Blunderbus sees Murley as Nowell mkII.

“We had a very open conversation about what I need to improve and what he sees are my strengths. What impressed me was he didn’t focus on perceived weaknesses. He wanted to look at how he could help my strengths improve – my carrying through contact and beating the first defender was one of those qualities mentioned and Steve was like ‘I want to see you do more of it – go get the ball, find it and do your things that make Cadan special’, which is a great message. He cited Jack Nowell, ironically my hero growing up, as the player to watch, how he seeks the ball and so on.”

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:17 am

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:46 am Article and interview with Murley basically confirms that Scandalous Blunderbus sees Murley as Nowell mkII.

“We had a very open conversation about what I need to improve and what he sees are my strengths. What impressed me was he didn’t focus on perceived weaknesses. He wanted to look at how he could help my strengths improve – my carrying through contact and beating the first defender was one of those qualities mentioned and Steve was like ‘I want to see you do more of it – go get the ball, find it and do your things that make Cadan special’, which is a great message. He cited Jack Nowell, ironically my hero growing up, as the player to watch, how he seeks the ball and so on.”

In defence of SB and Nowell, if all England's 'wannabee' wingers showed Nowell's full 80 minute commitment and hunger for work maybe more of them would get in and stay in. Nowell had limitations but made the best of what he had.

On a tangent, when asked who was the best footballer I ever saw my reply is usually, "Kevin Keegan, RELATIVE TO HIS SKILL." With the same theme in mind, who was our best ever winger? Might Cohen even get a mention? For skill + application, Robinson? We all quote work rate for open-sides but wingers? At his best, how far off was Ashton?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:17 am

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:46 am Article and interview with Murley basically confirms that Scandalous Blunderbus sees Murley as Nowell mkII.

“We had a very open conversation about what I need to improve and what he sees are my strengths. What impressed me was he didn’t focus on perceived weaknesses. He wanted to look at how he could help my strengths improve – my carrying through contact and beating the first defender was one of those qualities mentioned and Steve was like ‘I want to see you do more of it – go get the ball, find it and do your things that make Cadan special’, which is a great message. He cited Jack Nowell, ironically my hero growing up, as the player to watch, how he seeks the ball and so on.”

In defence of SB and Nowell, if all England's 'wannabee' wingers showed Nowell's full 80 minute commitment and hunger for work maybe more of them would get in and stay in. Nowell had limitations but made the best of what he had.

On a tangent, when asked who was the best footballer I ever saw my reply is usually, "Kevin Keegan, RELATIVE TO HIS SKILL." With the same theme in mind, who was our best ever winger? Might Cohen even get a mention? For skill + application, Robinson? We all quote work rate for open-sides but wingers? At his best, how far off was Ashton?

Puja wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:31 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:17 am

Stom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:46 am Article and interview with Murley basically confirms that Scandalous Blunderbus sees Murley as Nowell mkII.

In defence of SB and Nowell, if all England's 'wannabee' wingers showed Nowell's full 80 minute commitment and hunger for work maybe more of them would get in and stay in. Nowell had limitations but made the best of what he had.

On a tangent, when asked who was the best footballer I ever saw my reply is usually, "Kevin Keegan, RELATIVE TO HIS SKILL." With the same theme in mind, who was our best ever winger? Might Cohen even get a mention? For skill + application, Robinson? We all quote work rate for open-sides but wingers? At his best, how far off was Ashton?

Agreed. If we could get another iteration of Nowell, but this time with top-line pace, I'd be very fucking happy to have that!

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:31 pm Someone (Puja?) was talking about that young Sale tight-head recently on here saying he looks very promising. He’s been the one bright spot for Sale tonight with Marler singling him out as a big talent.

Amazing for a 19 year old. I’m not even going to try and spell his name though.

Puja wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:15 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:31 pm Someone (Puja?) was talking about that young Sale tight-head recently on here saying he looks very promising. He’s been the one bright spot for Sale tonight with Marler singling him out as a big talent.

Amazing for a 19 year old. I’m not even going to try and spell his name though.

It was me - really excited about him as a talent going forwards. Just got to be careful we don't push him too early too fast and break him. I didn't see the game - looks like he was a late injury call up to the bench as well. What did he do well?

Puja

twitchy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:48 am How is manny iyogun doing at saints? I remember every one went nuts about him because he survived a scrum with dan cole a few years back. Or is he the thing we are trying to move away from (a back row converted to a front row)?