2024 Six Nations

[paddy no 11]

I’ve had time now to reflect on the match.

We were shite.

Not shite, just not a disciplined, hard nosed collective

[Mikey Brown]

45 handling errors and we weren’t shite? Come on.

Italys attitude and aggression is defence was fantastic, and obviously a big contributor to our errors, but that was mid 2000s Scotland stuff.

Is that just what we look like without White and Tuipulotu? Did we get Marcus Di Rollo in for some extra skills training? That was fucking unbearable.

[paddy no 11]

Didn't realise error count was thaaaat high. Technically still playing for the championship next week.

[Big D]

I saw an interesting post elsewhere and not sure what I think about it. Basically:
- GT has had the best set of pro players any Scotland coach has had. He developed many of them.
- GT has never over achieved with this side. Always achieved the bottom to mid of what we could hope for.
- International HCs have a relatively short shelf life. We are now in year 7 of GTs tenure. It will be 10 years if he lasts to the next world cup. That's a long time. Gatland being the exception.

[General Zod]

Who would we get instead? Am not sure who is on the market. Franco?!

[Jocky]

It's not the coaches out on the field giving away penalty after penalty or not sticking to the game plan. Are there serial offenders in the team? Do some players need a kick up the backside? We seem to look like we are progressing then regress in other areas and can't seem to find that balance. I'm still so pissed off about yesterday, a good side doesn't let Italy back in the game and you really could feel it coming as each minute passed. Finn didn't look his normal self yesterday and despite the experience on the field there doesn't seem to be much leadership. It's unbelievable that we could actually finish 5th - aye I'm a glass half empty kind of guy but it has been beaten into me over the years of disappointment. Maybe we do need someone like Franco to get the best out of this team, but I don't want Glasgow to lose him as it feels like he's building something there. Anyway, if any good has come out of yesterday from the results, the Six Nations isn't as a forgone conclusion as we thought it was going to be, but unfortunately Ireland will be even more fired up next week - God help us!

[paddy no 11]

It's not the coaches out on the field giving away penalty after penalty or not sticking to the game plan. Are there serial offenders in the team? Do some players need a kick up the backside? We seem to look like we are progressing then regress in other areas and can't seem to find that balance. I'm still so pissed off about yesterday, a good side doesn't let Italy back in the game and you really could feel it coming as each minute passed. Finn didn't look his normal self yesterday and despite the experience on the field there doesn't seem to be much leadership. It's unbelievable that we could actually finish 5th - aye I'm a glass half empty kind of guy but it has been beaten into me over the years of disappointment. Maybe we do need someone like Franco to get the best out of this team, but I don't want Glasgow to lose him as it feels like he's building something there. Anyway, if any good has come out of yesterday from the results, the Six Nations isn't as a forgone conclusion as we thought it was going to be, but unfortunately Ireland will be even more fired up next week - God help us!

Discipline is the key issue. Hogg was captain what 12 months ago and clearly he has major issues and is not a leader. The whole Russell thing and poor me I flew in from France I'm just going to have a few pints etc.

I'd start healy, limited in talent but by all accounts he's very determined and maybe Scotland need to be marshalled around the pitch rather than waiting for Russell to throw a great pass all day

[Big D]

It's not the coaches out on the field giving away penalty after penalty or not sticking to the game plan. Are there serial offenders in the team? Do some players need a kick up the backside? We seem to look like we are progressing then regress in other areas and can't seem to find that balance. I'm still so pissed off about yesterday, a good side doesn't let Italy back in the game and you really could feel it coming as each minute passed. Finn didn't look his normal self yesterday and despite the experience on the field there doesn't seem to be much leadership. It's unbelievable that we could actually finish 5th - aye I'm a glass half empty kind of guy but it has been beaten into me over the years of disappointment. Maybe we do need someone like Franco to get the best out of this team, but I don't want Glasgow to lose him as it feels like he's building something there. Anyway, if any good has come out of yesterday from the results, the Six Nations isn't as a forgone conclusion as we thought it was going to be, but unfortunately Ireland will be even more fired up next week - God help us!

Discipline is the key issue. Hogg was captain what 12 months ago and clearly he has major issues and is not a leader. The whole Russell thing and poor me I flew in from France I'm just going to have a few pints etc.

I'd start healy, limited in talent but by all accounts he's very determined and maybe Scotland need to be marshalled around the pitch rather than waiting for Russell to throw a great pass all day

I disagree about Hogg not being a leader. He led the side to very narrow wins away in Wales England and France, almost led a 14 man win v Wales and hung in away v France in full flight after an early red card and took until 79th minute for France to guarentee the win. France were down to 14 too but they dug in well.

Hogg wasn't a perfect captain but the captain we needed at the time and better than he's given credit for due to off field issues. Given how badly we drop off in the second half I do think we miss his leadership.

[Donny osmond]

Agree about Hogg, he was a better leader than we currently have, albeit not perfect.

Not sure how I feel about Russell being captain. I think leadership and responsibility suit him and make him a better player, but I also don't think he's the leader the team need right now. Whoever is captain, our forwards need to collectively step tf up and take responsibility, individually and collectively.

[Cameo]

It's not the coaches out on the field giving away penalty after penalty or not sticking to the game plan. Are there serial offenders in the team? Do some players need a kick up the backside? We seem to look like we are progressing then regress in other areas and can't seem to find that balance. I'm still so pissed off about yesterday, a good side doesn't let Italy back in the game and you really could feel it coming as each minute passed. Finn didn't look his normal self yesterday and despite the experience on the field there doesn't seem to be much leadership. It's unbelievable that we could actually finish 5th - aye I'm a glass half empty kind of guy but it has been beaten into me over the years of disappointment. Maybe we do need someone like Franco to get the best out of this team, but I don't want Glasgow to lose him as it feels like he's building something there. Anyway, if any good has come out of yesterday from the results, the Six Nations isn't as a forgone conclusion as we thought it was going to be, but unfortunately Ireland will be even more fired up next week - God help us!

Discipline is the key issue. Hogg was captain what 12 months ago and clearly he has major issues and is not a leader. The whole Russell thing and poor me I flew in from France I'm just going to have a few pints etc.

I'd start healy, limited in talent but by all accounts he's very determined and maybe Scotland need to be marshalled around the pitch rather than waiting for Russell to throw a great pass all day

I think that view of Russell is based on him about 10 years ago and even then wasn't fair. He is a far better tactical kicker than Healy.

There have been no hints of bad discipline from Russell since he came back in.

[Cameo]

I saw an interesting post elsewhere and not sure what I think about it. Basically:
- GT has had the best set of pro players any Scotland coach has had. He developed many of them.
- GT has never over achieved with this side. Always achieved the bottom to mid of what we could hope for.
- International HCs have a relatively short shelf life. We are now in year 7 of GTs tenure. It will be 10 years if he lasts to the next world cup. That's a long time. Gatland being the exception.

I could live with moving on from Townsend if we found a top replacement (e.g. Shmidt or Robertson) though there are not many of them. However, I think overall he has done a good job:

- Agree re best set of players but the overall standard has improved. We're a long way off having the best players in the 6N and we still have some fairly average ones in there who wouldn't get near the very top sides.

- It depends who you compare it to. If you compare our 6N performances to England's, we have massively overperformed over the last few years. They have a stronger player base but we keep beating them and coming ahead of them. While we are inconsistent in one way, I think we are victims of consistency in another. It's a great achievement getting three wins every year but you win things by getting four or five wins one year and one or two the next. Not sure if that is coaching (big games) or just random.

- Shelf life is the reason I could live with replacing him in the hope a new coach would bring freshness. He will have learnt a lot though and does adapt so it's a risky move, especially if its for someone like Franco Smith. I like Franco but while he's done a good job at Glasgow, it's not been groundbreaking and they have lost their biggest games. He also failed in his first attempt as an international coach and there is an argument he is doing an important job for Scottish rugby where he is.

[Mikey Brown]

It feels like every time a Scottish club coach is remotely good they get pushed for the international side. Until we have half decent coaches at both club sides I wouldn’t want to mess with Franco.

I can’t say I followed his Italy reign too closely, but I do like his attitude so far.

[BaldiePete]

I could live with moving on from Townsend if we found a top replacement (e.g. Shmidt or Robertson) though there are not many of them.

If Townsend was to go, the problem would be who could we realistically get? Since Robertson is now the AB coach and Schmidt the Aussie coach they are non-starters and to be honest they probably would never have been interested in the job anyway. Within Scotland, Franco Smith has done a good job at Glasgow but is he going to be able to move back up to international level? Sean Everitt at Edinburgh is a complete non-starter, he has Edinburgh playing a turgid brand of rugby and doesn’t seem likely to ever move up to international level. As a totally off the wall suggestion, would Shaun Edwards be interested in a head coach job if he could be tempted away from France? For pure banter, Ronan ‘O’Gara would be hilarious. Both Scottish and Irish rugby twitter would explode.

[Cameo]

Okay, enough of the doom and gloom (only half trying to convince myself here).

We just played in a great high scoring in the balance game and we are still in the title chase coming up to the final weekend. Let's get excited!

Changes for Ireland? I'd put Fagerson in at 6 and bring White and Rowe (for Steyn) in. I'd also put McDowall on the bench. Tempted to start him as midfield did seem a bit lightweight but I think that is an overreaction and too harsh on Redpath.

[Mikey Brown]

I could live with moving on from Townsend if we found a top replacement (e.g. Shmidt or Robertson) though there are not many of them.

If Townsend was to go, the problem would be who could we realistically get? Since Robertson is now the AB coach and Schmidt the Aussie coach they are non-starters and to be honest they probably would never have been interested in the job anyway. Within Scotland, Franco Smith has done a good job at Glasgow but is he going to be able to move back up to international level? Sean Everitt at Edinburgh is a complete non-starter, he has Edinburgh playing a turgid brand of rugby and doesn’t seem likely to ever move up to international level. As a totally off the wall suggestion, would Shaun Edwards be interested in a head coach job if he could be tempted away from France? For pure banter, Ronan ‘O’Gara would be hilarious. Both Scottish and Irish rugby twitter would explode.

I can’t see it, but Edwards would be a fascinating option. What’s Rennie doing? Is he rated any more highly?

I’m not in any way suggesting Blair but what is he doing now? Has his career been completely derailed by an over-promotion?

ROG would definitely be a laugh. Seems incredibly unlikely though.

[Mikey Brown]

Okay, enough of the doom and gloom (only half trying to convince myself here).

We just played in a great high scoring in the balance game and we are still in the title chase coming up to the final weekend. Let's get excited!

Changes for Ireland? I'd put Fagerson in at 6 and bring White and Rowe (for Steyn) in. I'd also put McDowall on the bench. Tempted to start him as midfield did seem a bit lightweight but I think that is an overreaction and too harsh on Redpath.

Not using Rowe when we desperately needed a score seemed like a bad decision to me. Not that we were getting a huge amount of good ball out wide. Duhan’s botched try, Kinghorn losing the ball in contact repeatedly and Steyn just left to field terrible passes and cut back inside over and over was painful to watch.

I thought Christie was pretty good, although he got a bit carried away running away from his support. Frankly every single backrower has been patchy. I still feel like maybe we need Ritchie’s leadership (if not captaincy) in the pack, but he just doesn’t seem to deserve the spot purely on playing. A bit like O’Mahoney who Ireland are bemoaning the continued selection of.

Also not sure if I’d want to throw McDowell in against Ireland as a first serious start. The midfield felt less lightweight to me than simply directionless. Russell never quite seemed to know what was going on around him and I don’t know what combination of personal performance, Italian defence or missing communication from White/Tuipulotu you’d put that down to. Not really sure what that means for Redpath.

In terms of addressing discipline and handling errors, I mean what can you do at this point? England were shocking last time out against Scotland and pulled it together this weekend so I guess there’s hope, but I fear Ireland are going to be ridiculously fired up for this. Who in our side is going to match that? I guess just pick whoever seems the most pissed off?

[Jocky]

I think this weekend showed how important Sione is to the backline - his leadership and seems like the real pivot in there by taking a lot of pressure off Finn. Although Redpath didn't play badly, the backline felt it lacked the cohesion it usually has. I'm still seething by that second half performance though.

[Jocky]

Another thing is, especially in the Six Nations, we aren't a team used to being in commanding leads. It's like they switch off and allow teams back in - sure other teams are going to have their spells of dominance in a match, but we don't kick back in until we are behind and in danger of losing the game. Surely this is mental issue and something through stronger leadership shouldn't happen? I'm probably wrong but I have this feeling they all think they are better than they are without proving they are first.

[Donny osmond]

It's a mental issue. Has been for years. Only 2 pro clubs means being a huge fish in a tiny pond. Leadership from just one player/captain isn't going to solve that, even if we had a Martin Johnson figure snarling his way around training/games.

[Jocky]

Are we expecting any team changes for Saturday or does anyone actually care anymore?

[Mikey Brown]

I almost posted about 10 minutes ago to ask if anyone else had forgotten we had a game left…

Saturday really was deflating.

[Mikey Brown]

I’m not aware of any injuries or the status of Tuipulotu, but I assume he’s still out.

White in 100%. Fagerson/Ritchie a reasonable shout at 6 but happy enough with Christie there. I assume we’ll stick with 6:2 and continue to not make much use of it.

I feel for Rowe not getting more time after 2 strong showings early on.

[BaldiePete]

After the England game it was announced Tuipolotu was out for 10-12 weeks. I had been keen to see Horne start but it didn’t work so White to start and Horne back to the bench. The back row is the position where there’s real competition for places but are we just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic? Darge and any two of the others would be as good as we can get. If Bradbury is with the squad maybe give him a shot at 8.

[Mikey Brown]

White and McDowell in (for Ritchie) to start with Horne, Redpath and Sutherland on a 6:2 bench.

[Jocky]

5:3 split. Great for big Staff. I guess no big surprises apart from Staff/Sutherland suddenly getting a chance and maybe not going for a 6:2 on the bench.