RugbyRebels

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:Good news for them is it seems the premium way to go about things is get Covid (and don't suffer too badly) and then get fully vaxxed.

Premium, if you assume there are no ill effects from catching Covid.

Which Tyler wrote:

• reject masks
  reject vaccines
  embrace livestock de-wormer

Vaccine passports will make hesitant people ‘even more reluctant to get jabbed’

Data comes as No 10 vows to press on with plan to make vaccination a condition of entry for nightclubs

Imposing vaccine passports is likely to make hesitant people even more reluctant to get Covid jabs, research involving more than 16,000 people has found as Downing Street vowed to press ahead with the plan within a month.

...

The survey was carried out in April when most people were either unvaccinated or had received only one dose of a vaccine. It suggested the groups that are less likely to get vaccinated – including the young, non-white ethnicities and non-English speakers – also view vaccine passports less positively.

“This creates a risk of creating a divided society wherein the majority are relatively secure but there remain pockets of lower vaccination where outbreaks can still occur,” the authors wrote in the paper, which is currently in preprint form.

The analysis involved 16,527 people, of whom 14,543 had not yet had both vaccine doses. In this group, the vast majority (87.8%) indicated their decision on being jabbed would not be affected by the introduction of passports.

However, of the remaining 12.2%, about two-thirds suggested they would be less likely to get vaccinated if passports were introduced, while the rest said they would be more inclined. Vaccine passports were viewed less negatively by this group if they were only required for international travel rather than domestic use.

Which Tyler wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... get-jabbed

Vaccine passports will make hesitant people ‘even more reluctant to get jabbed’

Data comes as No 10 vows to press on with plan to make vaccination a condition of entry for nightclubs

Imposing vaccine passports is likely to make hesitant people even more reluctant to get Covid jabs, research involving more than 16,000 people has found as Downing Street vowed to press ahead with the plan within a month.

...

The survey was carried out in April when most people were either unvaccinated or had received only one dose of a vaccine. It suggested the groups that are less likely to get vaccinated – including the young, non-white ethnicities and non-English speakers – also view vaccine passports less positively.

“This creates a risk of creating a divided society wherein the majority are relatively secure but there remain pockets of lower vaccination where outbreaks can still occur,” the authors wrote in the paper, which is currently in preprint form.

The analysis involved 16,527 people, of whom 14,543 had not yet had both vaccine doses. In this group, the vast majority (87.8%) indicated their decision on being jabbed would not be affected by the introduction of passports.

However, of the remaining 12.2%, about two-thirds suggested they would be less likely to get vaccinated if passports were introduced, while the rest said they would be more inclined. Vaccine passports were viewed less negatively by this group if they were only required for international travel rather than domestic use.

Seems an odd conclusion to me, even though it's what the pure data (as of April) suggests - there is absolutely a wider discussion to be had.

88% said they would not be affected either way if vaccination were made a pre-requisite for clubs / holidays etc - the vast majority of the would have been intending to get vaccinated otherwise, most of the rest are probably lying to themselves when answering a hypothetical versus a real-world question with direct implications.
4% have said that introducing a vaccine passport will make them more likely to get the vaccine. In reality, this number is bound to be significantly higher - as demonstrated by other countries like France, who saw a massive increase in vaccination once passports were introduced.
8% are not vaccine-hesitant, they are anti-vaxx, and there is no reaching them.

The vaccine-hesitant, are hesitant - willing to be convinced. They "just" need the right encouragement to do the right thing; passports are a part of that.
Bowing to the demands of the 8% would be letting the perfect be the enemy of the achievable.

In a First, Randomized Study Shows That Masks Reduce COVID-19 Infections

A large study co-authored by Yale SOM’s Jason Abaluck and Mushfiq Mobarak tested the effectiveness of a mask-promotion program in Bangladesh in increasing mask use and preventing symptomatic infections. The study found that masks significantly lower symptomatic infections, especially among older people and when surgical masks are used.

In the first weeks of the COVID-19 pandemic, health authorities advised against the use of masks by the public, concerned about diverting supplies from healthcare workers and creating a false sense of security that would reduce compliance with public health recommendations like social distancing and hand washing. By April 2020, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control had reversed itself; in June, the World Health Organization followed suit. Masks were eventually adopted in much of the world. But evidence of the effectiveness of masks in preventing infection has been limited to lab experiments and healthcare settings.

Now, for the first time, a randomized trial has demonstrated the effectiveness of masks in preventing infection in a real-world community setting. A large study in Bangladesh, co-authored by Yale SOM’s Jason Abaluck and Mushfiq Mobarak, found that a campaign to promote mask-wearing reduced symptomatic infections significantly, particularly among older people and those using surgical masks.

...

Which Tyler wrote:To me, that's making the perfect the enemy of the achievable.
Even with Delta, vaccines reduce spread by about 50% - which is well worth it for high risk venues (indoors and crowded). Not to mention keeping out those people who are personally at high risk (the unvaccinated).

If you then factor in that more people will get vaccinated than without passports, then that reduces spread in other areas.

Digby wrote:Good news for them is it seems the premium way to go about things is get Covid (and don't suffer too badly) and then get fully vaxxed.

AL. wrote:

Digby wrote:Good news for them is it seems the premium way to go about things is get Covid (and don't suffer too badly) and then get fully vaxxed.

That's effectively what I did.... Got sick last Feb for three days (in bed and my first sick days in nearly a decade, half my department went down), then lost ALL smell and taste for three weeks (and ability to acknowledge texture/moisture etc., quite an unusual sensation believe me). Got my jags this summer.

My lungs are fucked and I get out of breath for no reason, dont get me wrong sitting on my harris for a year wont have helped but still, just this last few weeks It is marginally better. If I could try again Id have the jag first, I suspect it would have helped. I could on the other hand be lucky that's all I got, know a few people who have died directly/indirectly.

Digby wrote:

AL. wrote:

Digby wrote:Good news for them is it seems the premium way to go about things is get Covid (and don't suffer too badly) and then get fully vaxxed.

That's effectively what I did.... Got sick last Feb for three days (in bed and my first sick days in nearly a decade, half my department went down), then lost ALL smell and taste for three weeks (and ability to acknowledge texture/moisture etc., quite an unusual sensation believe me). Got my jags this summer.

My lungs are fucked and I get out of breath for no reason, dont get me wrong sitting on my harris for a year wont have helped but still, just this last few weeks It is marginally better. If I could try again Id have the jag first, I suspect it would have helped. I could on the other hand be lucky that's all I got, know a few people who have died directly/indirectly.

Sounds like it was worse for you than many. Calling it the premium way to go is more for those who don't have a strong reaction, it just seems overall to given slightly better immunity, which then likely starts to wane.

I didn't get the loss of sensation of texture/moisture, and I didn't lose all sense of taste/smell for that long, but I've still only got part of my sense of taste back. I also don't get out of breath for no reason, but I can't run like I did, any attempt to run for more than a few hundred metres results in wanting to stop to draw breath and to cough a lot, and last week I did some timed runs over 100m, repeat sprints, and I was struggling to get down into the 16 seconds, I did 2 runs over 20 seconds. Running the 100m seems suitable at the moment because I can finish that without wanting to stop and cough, less so if I'm running (walking?) it in 23 seconds, but it's easy to ignore wanting to cough for a few seconds

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:

AL. wrote:
That's effectively what I did.... Got sick last Feb for three days (in bed and my first sick days in nearly a decade, half my department went down), then lost ALL smell and taste for three weeks (and ability to acknowledge texture/moisture etc., quite an unusual sensation believe me). Got my jags this summer.

My lungs are fucked and I get out of breath for no reason, dont get me wrong sitting on my harris for a year wont have helped but still, just this last few weeks It is marginally better. If I could try again Id have the jag first, I suspect it would have helped. I could on the other hand be lucky that's all I got, know a few people who have died directly/indirectly.

Sounds like it was worse for you than many. Calling it the premium way to go is more for those who don't have a strong reaction, it just seems overall to given slightly better immunity, which then likely starts to wane.

I didn't get the loss of sensation of texture/moisture, and I didn't lose all sense of taste/smell for that long, but I've still only got part of my sense of taste back. I also don't get out of breath for no reason, but I can't run like I did, any attempt to run for more than a few hundred metres results in wanting to stop to draw breath and to cough a lot, and last week I did some timed runs over 100m, repeat sprints, and I was struggling to get down into the 16 seconds, I did 2 runs over 20 seconds. Running the 100m seems suitable at the moment because I can finish that without wanting to stop and cough, less so if I'm running (walking?) it in 23 seconds, but it's easy to ignore wanting to cough for a few seconds

Really not understanding the concept of catching Covid19 as the best strategy to get immunity to Covid19.

The whole point of immunity is to protect against Covid19. If you have to catch Covid19 as the first step in getting the best immunity, haven't you already failed? Or if you assume that Covid19 is basically harmless, what's the point of trying to get immunity to it (let alone 'premium' immunity)?

What am I missing here?

Digby wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote: Sounds like it was worse for you than many. Calling it the premium way to go is more for those who don't have a strong reaction, it just seems overall to given slightly better immunity, which then likely starts to wane.

I didn't get the loss of sensation of texture/moisture, and I didn't lose all sense of taste/smell for that long, but I've still only got part of my sense of taste back. I also don't get out of breath for no reason, but I can't run like I did, any attempt to run for more than a few hundred metres results in wanting to stop to draw breath and to cough a lot, and last week I did some timed runs over 100m, repeat sprints, and I was struggling to get down into the 16 seconds, I did 2 runs over 20 seconds. Running the 100m seems suitable at the moment because I can finish that without wanting to stop and cough, less so if I'm running (walking?) it in 23 seconds, but it's easy to ignore wanting to cough for a few seconds

Really not understanding the concept of catching Covid19 as the best strategy to get immunity to Covid19.

The whole point of immunity is to protect against Covid19. If you have to catch Covid19 as the first step in getting the best immunity, haven't you already failed? Or if you assume that Covid19 is basically harmless, what's the point of trying to get immunity to it (let alone 'premium' immunity)?

What am I missing here?

The idea is the highest level of immunity that can be obtained comes from being double vaccinated after having already contracted the disease. That order works better it's being stated than being double vaxxed and then getting the disease.

It's not the order I think most would recommend, but it was a comment in response to some over 16s who'd put themselves in the position of contracting the disease having not been vaccinated, and I observed they could at least now max out the potential benefit.

Covid patient dies after anti-vaxxer helps him leave hospital

Heartbreaking footage shows a 67-year-old Covid patient being convinced to leave hospital by an anti-vaxxer two days before he died.