RugbyRebels

Tuilagi hit was a tough one, but North’s instinct to stick his head in the way of trouble in situations like that really is going to cost him.

There’s someone Slade really reminds me of as a 15. Good positioning, tough, solid in the air, big left boot, heavily involved running back but often dying with the ball. Can’t quite put my finger in it.

Curious how his development has come on.

Whatever the merits of the red card desision, the fact is that poor discipline nearly cost us a win. Farrell could have gone in the 1st half. At our best, that should have been a win by 4 or 5 scores. Wales, post-Edwards, are really not that good.

I'm happy that we won and sad about how we scraped it.

[quote="Mikey Brown]

There’s someone Slade really reminds me of as a 15. Good positioning, tough, solid in the air, big left boot, heavily involved running back but often dying with the ball. Can’t quite put my finger in it.
[/quote]

Terry Thomas?

Loved Tipuric’s broken field run - Sam Simmonds might do something similar for us - but Jones just doesn’t see that as the role of a back row forward as far as I can see

Despite the ifs and buts of the Tuilagi decision, I think we were quite lucky the TMO didn't have a good look at how AWJ ended up leaving the pitch. Lawes comes in with a tucked shoulder and there is definitely head contact with force. There is a pretty decent argument that that was a red too.

Puja

Puja wrote:Despite the ifs and buts of the Tuilagi decision, I think we were quite lucky the TMO didn't have a good look at how AWJ ended up leaving the pitch. Lawes comes in with a tucked shoulder and there is definitely head contact with force. There is a pretty decent argument that that was a red too.

Puja

Puja, AwJ stayed on the field to the end.

Puja wrote:Despite the ifs and buts of the Tuilagi decision, I think we were quite lucky the TMO didn't have a good look at how AWJ ended up leaving the pitch. Lawes comes in with a tucked shoulder and there is definitely head contact with force. There is a pretty decent argument that that was a red too.

Puja

Hadleigh ‘tits for hands’ Parkes on Manu in the 1st half was a bloody awful head shot too.

oldbackrow wrote:

Puja wrote:Despite the ifs and buts of the Tuilagi decision, I think we were quite lucky the TMO didn't have a good look at how AWJ ended up leaving the pitch. Lawes comes in with a tucked shoulder and there is definitely head contact with force. There is a pretty decent argument that that was a red too.

Puja

Puja, AwJ stayed on the field to the end.

I blame my history of head knocks for not noticing that. I was talking about when AWJ went down injured and we had a lot of fannying about before apparently deciding that he was fine to continue without doing an HIA, the only thing that's supposed to diagnose whether someone's okay to continue after a head knock.

Puja

Puja wrote:

oldbackrow wrote:

Puja wrote:Despite the ifs and buts of the Tuilagi decision, I think we were quite lucky the TMO didn't have a good look at how AWJ ended up leaving the pitch. Lawes comes in with a tucked shoulder and there is definitely head contact with force. There is a pretty decent argument that that was a red too.

Puja

Puja, AwJ stayed on the field to the end.

I blame my history of head knocks for not noticing that. I was talking about when AWJ went down injured and we had a lot of fannying about before apparently deciding that he was fine to continue without doing an HIA, the only thing that's supposed to diagnose whether someone's okay to continue after a head knock.

Puja

That and our faffing around with May needs to be looked at

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

oldbackrow wrote: Puja, AwJ stayed on the field to the end.

I blame my history of head knocks for not noticing that. I was talking about when AWJ went down injured and we had a lot of fannying about before apparently deciding that he was fine to continue without doing an HIA, the only thing that's supposed to diagnose whether someone's okay to continue after a head knock.

Puja

That and our faffing around with May needs to be looked at

That was utterly ridiculous. As was North being allowed to play on after getting Tuilagied. He's going to have dementia before he's 40.

Puja

Also what's the difference between that Tuilagi failed attempt at a tackle on North and some of those Ireland clearcuts from the previous game? Bar the Ireland hits were more intentional (not that I object to Manu getting a red)

Yup, the clue seems to be in the name.
It's almost like a Head Injury Assessment is the right way to Assess the severity of otherwise of a Head Injury.
Unfortunately, this seems to have been missed but just about everyone in rugby, thought the Welsh medical staff seem to be about the worst out there on that - see about half a dozen examples, just for George North

Digby wrote:Also what's the difference between that Tuilagi failed attempt at a tackle on North and some of those Ireland clearcuts from the previous game? Bar the Ireland hits were more intentional (not that I object to Manu getting a red)

When it comes to sly digs, off-the-ball stuff, obstruction, holding players down, boderline illegal tackling, overall cynical play etc.. England are just about as bad as it gets. I suppose we all see different things depending on where we're coming from. The norm now is do anything you can get away with. Weak reffing reinforces this attitude.

Youngs as MOM (sorry POM lol) is stretching it a bit, but yeah, his best gme in an era. Never thought I'd type that out.

Which Tyler wrote:Yup, the clue seems to be in the name.
It's almost like a Head Injury Assessment is the right way to Assess the severity of otherwise of a Head Injury.
Unfortunately, this seems to have been missed but just about everyone in rugby, thought the Welsh medical staff seem to be about the worst out there on that - see about half a dozen examples, just for George North

Yep, this.

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:Also what's the difference between that Tuilagi failed attempt at a tackle on North and some of those Ireland clearcuts from the previous game? Bar the Ireland hits were more intentional (not that I object to Manu getting a red)

When it comes to sly digs, off-the-ball stuff, obstruction, holding players down, boderline illegal tackling, overall cynical play etc.. England are just about as bad as it gets. I suppose we all see different things depending on where we're coming from. The norm now is do anything you can get away with. Weak reffing reinforces this attitude.

The bolded bit is the rub...it really isn't a nationalistic thing. All teams do it. All teams have players more guilty than others...and surprisingly enough, it has always been the case.

WaspInWales wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:Also what's the difference between that Tuilagi failed attempt at a tackle on North and some of those Ireland clearcuts from the previous game? Bar the Ireland hits were more intentional (not that I object to Manu getting a red)

When it comes to sly digs, off-the-ball stuff, obstruction, holding players down, boderline illegal tackling, overall cynical play etc.. England are just about as bad as it gets. I suppose we all see different things depending on where we're coming from. The norm now is do anything you can get away with. Weak reffing reinforces this attitude.

The bolded bit is the rub...it really isn't a nationalistic thing. All teams do it. All teams have players more guilty than others...and surprisingly enough, it has always been the case.

I think you are right in that all teams try and get away with what they can. The one difference is with the really physical teams who put everything on being aggressive, the "getting away with it" is more dangerous. Everyone tries to cheat but I think SA and then England (and Ireland) are the two big nations against whom you are most likely to get hurt by a borderline or downright illegal hit. Most Scottish players could hurt you even if they snuck into your house and tackled you while you were sleeping.

I also thought Tuilagi's hit was about as reckless as you could get in a game where the second tackler was routinely coming in with no arms to bounce the ball carrier back

This comment is just worrying:

"I don't know what Manu is supposed to do in that situation," he added.

"I don't know how he is supposed to tackle the guy. How else do you tackle if you don't tackle with your shoulder?"

If you can only get to someone's head/neck and/or you can't wrap your arms, you don't tackle them. Simple as that.

As noted above with some of those Ireland clearcuts in our last game specifically and quite generally in rugby flying in with the shoulder is a norm in the game. If in that situation yesterday North stands up through that tackle Manu probably gets a huge amount of praise, but either way he wasn't in control, and I'm fine with pinging Manu for him not being in control but not being control is mostly ignored en masse

For comparison. This was right in front of the ref and wasn't even looked at afterwards. Remember we were all discussing how ryan was going to be banned for france.

After originally being surprised it was a red, i've largely come round to it being the right decision. I would really like to know what guidence the tmo has for piping up. I do find it odd the way obvious things get missed often enough but then suddenly at a key time tmo decides they need to add value.

No arm-wrap and shoulder to head initial contact is automatic red with no mitigation according to what I read. Will Jones now get away with publicly criticising the decision as 'rubbish'? What bothers me most is not whether he should or not but that his attitude seems to be in accordance with that of his on-field captain, especially in the first half. That approach is counter-productive and plain wrong. Jones needs to get discipline under control.

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:Also what's the difference between that Tuilagi failed attempt at a tackle on North and some of those Ireland clearcuts from the previous game? Bar the Ireland hits were more intentional (not that I object to Manu getting a red)

When it comes to sly digs, off-the-ball stuff, obstruction, holding players down, boderline illegal tackling, overall cynical play etc.. England are just about as bad as it gets. I suppose we all see different things depending on where we're coming from. The norm now is do anything you can get away with. Weak reffing reinforces this attitude.

I assume you’re acknowledging Ireland as being right at the top when you say this?

Mikey Brown wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:Also what's the difference between that Tuilagi failed attempt at a tackle on North and some of those Ireland clearcuts from the previous game? Bar the Ireland hits were more intentional (not that I object to Manu getting a red)

When it comes to sly digs, off-the-ball stuff, obstruction, holding players down, boderline illegal tackling, overall cynical play etc.. England are just about as bad as it gets. I suppose we all see different things depending on where we're coming from. The norm now is do anything you can get away with. Weak reffing reinforces this attitude.

I assume you’re acknowledging Ireland as being right at the top when you say this?

Ah, dreams of Fergus Slattery, arch-nuisance!

Oakboy wrote:No arm-wrap and shoulder to head initial contact is automatic red with no mitigation according to what I read. Will Jones now get away with publicly criticising the decision as 'rubbish'? What bothers me most is not whether he should or not but that his attitude seems to be in accordance with that of his on-field captain, especially in the first half. That approach is counter-productive and plain wrong. Jones needs to get discipline under control.

Jones has been very silly there. The officials took their time with the decision and it’s fairly clear that it was reckless. I hope Tuilagi doesn’t get a long ban as I feel it wasn’t malicious but Jones May have a difficult conversation about not criticising referees in public so bluntly (and I take the same opinion with the current welsh management before anyone objects).

Jonathan Kaplan suggests that there should have been a yellow for Farrell due to his repeated infringements, the first one was just silly. Also suggests Marler should have received a yellow for his penis grabbing antics.