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Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:38 pm
by Puja
FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:21 am
Puja wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:15 am
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:31 pm
Someone (Puja?) was talking about that young Sale tight-head recently on here saying he looks very promising. He’s been the one bright spot for Sale tonight with Marler singling him out as a big talent.
Amazing for a 19 year old. I’m not even going to try and spell his name though.
It was me - really excited about him as a talent going forwards. Just got to be careful we don't push him too early too fast and break him. I didn't see the game - looks like he was a late injury call up to the bench as well. What did he do well?
Puja
Everything. Very accomplished cameo and pretty much the only spark in a woeful evening for Sale. Pitch side interview with Marler is worth a listen. He could make a great pundit if he felt like it. Towards the end he gives the young lad a shout out and bugs him up saying he was seriously impressed when scrummaging against him, which was a classy thing to do as well.
Sometimes you see a player at age groups and think, "This guy's just got it." Last one I saw like that was Itoje, but both Opoku-Fordjour and Fasogbon looked to be in that similar calibre when I saw them play. Absolutely wild that we've had a complete dearth of tightheads for years and now have two potential worldies in the same school year!
Puja
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:55 pm
by Mikey Brown
Puja wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 12:38 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:21 am
Puja wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:15 am
It was me - really excited about him as a talent going forwards. Just got to be careful we don't push him too early too fast and break him. I didn't see the game - looks like he was a late injury call up to the bench as well. What did he do well?
Puja
Everything. Very accomplished cameo and pretty much the only spark in a woeful evening for Sale. Pitch side interview with Marler is worth a listen. He could make a great pundit if he felt like it. Towards the end he gives the young lad a shout out and bugs him up saying he was seriously impressed when scrummaging against him, which was a classy thing to do as well.
Sometimes you see a player at age groups and think, "This guy's just got it." Last one I saw like that was Itoje, but both Opoku-Fordjour and Fasogbon looked to be in that similar calibre when I saw them play. Absolutely wild that we've had a complete dearth of tightheads for years and now have two potential worldies in the same school year!
Puja
Let’s just hope their clubs take their time with them. It’s ridiculous seeing comments (not here) now that he should be Sale’s first choice tighthead at 19.
Great experience for him though. I didn’t recognise the name at all when he came on and it seemed especially cruel to chuck him in against Marler when Sale were already getting beaten all over the park.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:19 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
It's good to see that with the move to tighthead he doesn't appear to have gone backwards. Took Fin Baxter a little while to take the swap from tight to loosehead
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:23 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
Though to be fair maybe it’s more a specialisation as he has played both sides at different stages of his development.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:17 am
by Stom
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:29 am
I had assumed that’s who that post was about? I’d even dispute he’s not as powerful to be honest. A lot of the same strengths and miles quicker off the mark.
It was. He’s always been strong and tenacious, and I’d argue his work rate is better than Nowell as he puts in the shift in defense as well as attack, as shown by his turnover record.
And then he added his pace…
I just wonder what Slutty Bagpuss wants him to work on…
Probably kicking
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:59 am
by FKAS
Stom wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:17 am
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 9:29 am
I had assumed that’s who that post was about? I’d even dispute he’s not as powerful to be honest. A lot of the same strengths and miles quicker off the mark.
It was. He’s always been strong and tenacious, and I’d argue his work rate is better than Nowell as he puts in the shift in defense as well as attack, as shown by his turnover record.
And then he added his pace…
I just wonder what Slutty Bagpuss wants him to work on…
Probably kicking
Per Cadan Murley, Borthwick has asked him to work on getting the ball more. “Most people would think he’s trying to bring my weaknesses up, but we spoke about how I can get more involved.
“He wants to see my touches go from averaging around five or six to 10 because that’s one of my strengths and he wants to see it more.”
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/conten ... ack-nowell
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:54 am
by Puja
Radwan talking about having a run at an Olympic place for 7s if he's not needed by England in the 6N. Not sharing the link, cause it's Daily Heil, but here's the pertinent bit:
If Radwan is not picked by England there is another option on the table. He recently spoke to Tony Roques, the man in charge of Team GB Sevens for France 2024, and the Olympic Games is now a real possibility.
‘My number one goal is to make the Six Nations squad, but there have been a couple of conversations with the Sevens guys.
‘It’s whether you can work it into the schedule with Newcastle and my goal to play for England XVs. If it’s possible to make it work then I would definitely give it a go. 'I mentioned it to Newcastle and they haven’t said no!’.
Should he miss out on the Six Nations, there could be a window to play in the Los Angeles and Vancouver Sevens tournaments during the Premiership’s down weeks.
‘It would improve my defence, marking players with fast feet in big spaces. I’d have to earn a spot and play a couple of tournaments before. We’re not through to the next round of the Prem Cup, so there will be a couple of free weekends. We’ll have to see.
‘It’s right up there with the biggest sporting events in the world, so it would be an honour to be part of something like that.’
I wonder which he'd choose if he's offered a place in the A-game against Portugal. Taking that would surely mean missing out on any chance of acclimatising in time for the Olympics, but it'd be a difficult call to turn down Strong Backhand when that might see him fall in the pecking order and miss a chance to push for full international recognition.
Puja
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:52 am
by Oakboy
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:54 am
Radwan talking about having a run at an Olympic place for 7s if he's not needed by England in the 6N. Not sharing the link, cause it's Daily Heil, but here's the pertinent bit:
If Radwan is not picked by England there is another option on the table. He recently spoke to Tony Roques, the man in charge of Team GB Sevens for France 2024, and the Olympic Games is now a real possibility.
‘My number one goal is to make the Six Nations squad, but there have been a couple of conversations with the Sevens guys.
‘It’s whether you can work it into the schedule with Newcastle and my goal to play for England XVs. If it’s possible to make it work then I would definitely give it a go. 'I mentioned it to Newcastle and they haven’t said no!’.
Should he miss out on the Six Nations, there could be a window to play in the Los Angeles and Vancouver Sevens tournaments during the Premiership’s down weeks.
‘It would improve my defence, marking players with fast feet in big spaces. I’d have to earn a spot and play a couple of tournaments before. We’re not through to the next round of the Prem Cup, so there will be a couple of free weekends. We’ll have to see.
‘It’s right up there with the biggest sporting events in the world, so it would be an honour to be part of something like that.’
I wonder which he'd choose if he's offered a place in the A-game against Portugal. Taking that would surely mean missing out on any chance of acclimatising in time for the Olympics, but it'd be a difficult call to turn down Strong Backhand when that might see him fall in the pecking order and miss a chance to push for full international recognition.
Puja
Any decision must be difficult in so many ways but one factor is SB's playing style. Can a traditional top finisher justify his presence on the wing when chasing kicks is such a large part of what he is required to do? One big argument in favour of Smith at 10 is that he might be good enough to force SB to allow some positive rugby. I could understand a good winger thinking the Olympic 7s was a more attractive proposition if it is 'same-old' with Ford (and Tuilagi, come to that).
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:24 am
by Mikey Brown
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:52 am
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:54 am
Radwan talking about having a run at an Olympic place for 7s if he's not needed by England in the 6N. Not sharing the link, cause it's Daily Heil, but here's the pertinent bit:
If Radwan is not picked by England there is another option on the table. He recently spoke to Tony Roques, the man in charge of Team GB Sevens for France 2024, and the Olympic Games is now a real possibility.
‘My number one goal is to make the Six Nations squad, but there have been a couple of conversations with the Sevens guys.
‘It’s whether you can work it into the schedule with Newcastle and my goal to play for England XVs. If it’s possible to make it work then I would definitely give it a go. 'I mentioned it to Newcastle and they haven’t said no!’.
Should he miss out on the Six Nations, there could be a window to play in the Los Angeles and Vancouver Sevens tournaments during the Premiership’s down weeks.
‘It would improve my defence, marking players with fast feet in big spaces. I’d have to earn a spot and play a couple of tournaments before. We’re not through to the next round of the Prem Cup, so there will be a couple of free weekends. We’ll have to see.
‘It’s right up there with the biggest sporting events in the world, so it would be an honour to be part of something like that.’
I wonder which he'd choose if he's offered a place in the A-game against Portugal. Taking that would surely mean missing out on any chance of acclimatising in time for the Olympics, but it'd be a difficult call to turn down Strong Backhand when that might see him fall in the pecking order and miss a chance to push for full international recognition.
Puja
Any decision must be difficult in so many ways but one factor is SB's playing style. Can a traditional top finisher justify his presence on the wing when chasing kicks is such a large part of what he is required to do? One big argument in favour of Smith at 10 is that he might be good enough to force SB to allow some positive rugby. I could understand a good winger thinking the Olympic 7s was a more attractive proposition if it is 'same-old' with Ford (and Tuilagi, come to that).
It's hard to know what Borthwick's exact stance is on what a winger needs to offer, and how much that will change post-RWC with Felix Jones or another attack coach coming in.
He's generally looked very pragmatic, favouring kicking/fielding/kick-chase abilities, but clearly is open to more 1 dimensional (for want of a better phrase) strike-runners like Nadolo, Cokanasiga or Hassell-Collins if they aren't going to get exposed in the basics. I feel guys like Radwan, Wade, Reed etc. will always be too small and defensively suspect perhaps? I'm not sure where Murley sits on that scale. Freeman looks a good all rounder but may be playing 13 for now?
You'd think SA's incredible use of their rapid, agile wingers (particularly in defence) might be worth considering, but I can't see us replicating that defensive system.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 4:37 pm
by Spiffy
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:24 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 10:52 am
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 9:54 am
Radwan talking about having a run at an Olympic place for 7s if he's not needed by England in the 6N. Not sharing the link, cause it's Daily Heil, but here's the pertinent bit:
I wonder which he'd choose if he's offered a place in the A-game against Portugal. Taking that would surely mean missing out on any chance of acclimatising in time for the Olympics, but it'd be a difficult call to turn down Strong Backhand when that might see him fall in the pecking order and miss a chance to push for full international recognition.
Puja
Any decision must be difficult in so many ways but one factor is SB's playing style. Can a traditional top finisher justify his presence on the wing when chasing kicks is such a large part of what he is required to do? One big argument in favour of Smith at 10 is that he might be good enough to force SB to allow some positive rugby. I could understand a good winger thinking the Olympic 7s was a more attractive proposition if it is 'same-old' with Ford (and Tuilagi, come to that).
It's hard to know what Borthwick's exact stance is on what a winger needs to offer, and how much that will change post-RWC with Felix Jones or another attack coach coming in.
He's generally looked very pragmatic, favouring kicking/fielding/kick-chase abilities, but clearly is open to more 1 dimensional (for want of a better phrase) strike-runners like Nadolo, Cokanasiga or Hassell-Collins if they aren't going to get exposed in the basics. I feel guys like Radwan, Wade, Reed etc. will always be too small and defensively suspect perhaps? I'm not sure where Murley sits on that scale. Freeman looks a good all rounder but may be playing 13 for now?
You'd think SA's incredible use of their rapid, agile wingers (particularly in defence) might be worth considering, but I can't see us replicating that defensive system.
Some of the world's best wings at the moment are quite small men (Kolbe, Arendse, Graham, Hansen) and they are pretty good in defence too. I suspect Stunted Brain may be a bit sizeist in selection policy, but I'd like to see form as the major criterion. If the smaller chaps are outplaying their bigger counterparts every week, then just give them a chance on the squad. Of course a combination of big plus skillful is good, but too much emphasis should not be placed on size alone. e.g. Cockanasiga is big, and he's reasonably fast, once he gets up a head of steam, but he's an clumsy big lump with poor skills who should be nowhere near the squad
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:08 pm
by FKAS
I don't think Borthwick is particularly sizeist. One of the players who was a staple of his Tigers side was Harry Potter on the wing, leaving aside the various wizard puns, he was pretty average in size but his work rate and general refusal to come off second best made him a go to selection.
Come the world cup we saw May become a favourite again. He may have been past his best but you can't question his work rate and he does like to look for work.
It tallies with what Murley said Borthwick wanted him to work on. Get on the ball more, up the work rate. Certainly when Borthwick went for the bigger bloke it was Nadolo who'd make himself available for carries all the time in attack and he wasn't really one for chasing kicks down.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:46 pm
by Mellsblue
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:45 pm
by FKAS
I hope that's not true. He should get the same exemption as the Wasps and Wuss players got last season.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:10 pm
by Stom
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:45 pm
I hope that's not true. He should get the same exemption as the Wasps and Wuss players got last season.
Why? It's not last season. And I don't think there should have been an exemption in the first place.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:41 pm
by Puja
Stom wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:10 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:45 pm
I hope that's not true. He should get the same exemption as the Wasps and Wuss players got last season.
Why? It's not last season. And I don't think there should have been an exemption in the first place.
It'd be pretty poor if he was promised the exemption and then had it removed. If he announced before the 6N that he was staying in Racing, then I'd see the point of not picking a player who was going to be ineligible going forwards, but it seems very shitty to be forcing him into a decision in January, especially when he may want to see a) whether Borthwick has him in his plans and b) whether said plans involve actually passing to him at any point, before making a decision.
Puja
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:49 pm
by Mellsblue
He’s been interviewed in The Times and, after reading it, I wouldn’t be surprised if he stays in Paris.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:52 pm
by Mellsblue
Stom wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:10 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:45 pm
I hope that's not true. He should get the same exemption as the Wasps and Wuss players got last season.
Why? It's not last season. And I don't think there should have been an exemption in the first place.
That’s the spirit. F**k you, you redundant rugby player looking for a job in a shrinking market of cash strapped employers. F**k you and your family.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:10 am
by Stom
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:52 pm
Stom wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:10 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:45 pm
I hope that's not true. He should get the same exemption as the Wasps and Wuss players got last season.
Why? It's not last season. And I don't think there should have been an exemption in the first place.
That’s the spirit. F**k you, you redundant rugby player looking for a job in a shrinking market of cash strapped employers. F**k you and your family.
They're perfectly capable of still going to France and getting a larger base salary. Or they can stick in England and play international rugby, it's their choice.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:26 am
by Mellsblue
Stom wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:10 am
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:52 pm
Stom wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:10 pm
Why? It's not last season. And I don't think there should have been an exemption in the first place.
That’s the spirit. F**k you, you redundant rugby player looking for a job in a shrinking market of cash strapped employers. F**k you and your family.
They're perfectly capable of still going to France and getting a larger base salary. Or they can stick in England and play international rugby, it's their choice.
That’s the spirit.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 11:17 am
by Banquo
Stom wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:10 am
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:52 pm
Stom wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:10 pm
Why? It's not last season. And I don't think there should have been an exemption in the first place.
That’s the spirit. F**k you, you redundant rugby player looking for a job in a shrinking market of cash strapped employers. F**k you and your family.
They're perfectly capable of still going to France and getting a larger base salary. Or they can stick in England and play international rugby, it's their choice.
Tell me, what were the options for those high profile expensive players whose clubs crashed underneath them in the financially constrained and salary capped Prem? I say that as someone who supports the rule of having to play here, but this was an absolutely valid and empathetic measure.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 11:52 am
by FKAS
Stom wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:10 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:45 pm
I hope that's not true. He should get the same exemption as the Wasps and Wuss players got last season.
Why? It's not last season. And I don't think there should have been an exemption in the first place.
London Irish went under at the end of last season, clubs will have had 90%+ of their squad sorted by that point. Tough for players to find a deal on short notice. Allowing a period of grace from which they can still remain eligible seems only fair. Same with Wasps and Wuss players. Many would have taken pay cuts to get a new job mid season, for those internationals to then be told just cause you've done the best for your family at an incredibly tough time you're out in the cold that would have been very harsh.
I support the concept of playing in England in order to be picked but a little compassion in those tough times seems logical.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:11 pm
by Margin_Walker
Pretty impressive move from him if this turns out to be true. Doesn't sound like a money issue going off the Times article in the week. Seems to be genuinely enjoying playing rugby over there. Good luck to him as I think it will be genuinely good for him as a player. England will be fine without him. There are always decent outside backs around if Borthwick fancies using them in a more conventional way.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:31 pm
by Captainhaircut
Nailed on to be playing for Scotland in 3 years time. They’ll be throwing everything at him.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:36 pm
by Mikey Brown
Yep. No issue with that. Clearly a great talent but the way we’ve used him hasn’t ever really sat right with me. Let him learn and get some experience at this level.
Let him win an England spot because his form demands it rather than because he’s fast and we have no idea how to attack.
Re: New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:52 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
Good for him! His England experiences have not been good, so why would he opt for more of that?
Less money but more fun! Good lad!!