Danno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:47 am
I'm a little bit over Steward.
I hate to say it but he's getting a bit like Mike Brown in that he offers a few very solid things but very little spark. I don't want him dropped and I certainly don't want to EJ him about by sticking him on a wing or midfield, but it would be nice to have a genuine option to switch in when we're not just scared of endless aerial bombardment.
Honestly think a season in France/NZ would work wonders for him (don't ban me please, Puja)
I think a fb should be far more of a threat than just being able to catch a ball. Probably because of that one attribute it is half the reason we see so much ball kicked - and why May masquerading as a Peaky Blinder has been selected.
I'd take a Lewsey, Brown or Robinson over the curly haired assasin Hodgkinson or Webb type every time.
Danno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:47 am
I'm a little bit over Steward.
I hate to say it but he's getting a bit like Mike Brown in that he offers a few very solid things but very little spark. I don't want him dropped and I certainly don't want to EJ him about by sticking him on a wing or midfield, but it would be nice to have a genuine option to switch in when we're not just scared of endless aerial bombardment.
Honestly think a season in France/NZ would work wonders for him (don't ban me please, Puja)
I think a fb should be far more of a threat than just being able to catch a ball. Probably because of that one attribute it is half the reason we see so much ball kicked - and why May masquerading as a Peaky Blinder has been selected.
I'd take a Lewsey, Brown or Robinson over the curly haired assasin Hodgkinson or Webb type every time.
Always liked Stimpson in the shirt!
I would be interested to know what SB's back-up plan was should Steward be out injured. Who would he start at 15 in the QF, say? He really ought to be prepared for just that scenario.
Now, now. No need for that .............................. though I bet you are warming to the idea (Freddie at 12 not SCW on this forum)
given his turning circle is bigger than a tanker stuck in the suez canal, I'm not sure old clog hands is suited. Could be a bit of the Harry Mallinders going on.
In fairness to Fred-lar, he had a very good 10 minutes including the try- also, what a left footed kick from Mike's lad.
Fred (despite some pretty ropey moments of late) is a very fine full-back, I think he could become great over time, he's very young.
At a pinch I could see him at 13, not 12, but not sure why one would do that really.
If we were to move him, I think I'd play him on the wing to have that cross-field kick option and to still utilise his qualities under the high-ball.
It might enable us to play Smith at 15 (which I don't love but we can't argue he's made an impact from the bench) and then I'd throw Arundell on the other wing.
Smith 15, Arundell 11, Stewart 14 could be an option to play within in the coming games.
Daly has been poor imo, and May just isn't enough of a threat either for me. When SCWs sides weren't particularly creative, Jason Robinson made things happen, made openings with his footwork. Smith and Arundell will do that just from being on the pitch, they'll beat people and make openings, create doglegs etc even if Ford/Farrell/whoever is in the midfield are doing their best not to be creative.
Generally a very good 15 in the air, and usually error free. Not sure how much more of a running game we will see. 15 is his position though, for sure. Not enough gas for an intl wing. You can't start Smith at 15 in a big game, ditto Arundell tbh, so Steward is the only game in town.
Danno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:47 am
I'm a little bit over Steward.
I hate to say it but he's getting a bit like Mike Brown in that he offers a few very solid things but very little spark. I don't want him dropped and I certainly don't want to EJ him about by sticking him on a wing or midfield, but it would be nice to have a genuine option to switch in when we're not just scared of endless aerial bombardment.
Honestly think a season in France/NZ would work wonders for him (don't ban me please, Puja)
but hasn't the time to work on them, nor the competition to drive to get the best out of him.
'He hasn't the time to work on them'? Does he have less time than other full time pros? I'm not understanding that at all- what flaws do you mean?
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 12:02 pm
I think you've answered your own questions there. Nobody knows how to get around the Farrell/fly-half log-jam. His motivational presence is seemingly irreplaceable, which doesn't say much for any of our coaches.
I get your point that every bench player needs to be capable coming on in minute 1, but we're simply a bit desperate and underprepared. With the other two at 10 Borthwick is just seeing if he can salvage anything from the time invested in Smith.
We all seem to pretty much agree on the state of the backs situation, but sadly I think this problem will persist as long as Farrell/Ford are both playing.
Speaking of people that would be better for a long sojourn in France, where we can't pick him...
Puja
Racing need a marquee
We do too-- ours just blew over in the wind! Now have to try and get some more cover in case it rains.
Danno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:47 am
I'm a little bit over Steward.
I hate to say it but he's getting a bit like Mike Brown in that he offers a few very solid things but very little spark. I don't want him dropped and I certainly don't want to EJ him about by sticking him on a wing or midfield, but it would be nice to have a genuine option to switch in when we're not just scared of endless aerial bombardment.
Honestly think a season in France/NZ would work wonders for him (don't ban me please, Puja)
I think a fb should be far more of a threat than just being able to catch a ball. Probably because of that one attribute it is half the reason we see so much ball kicked - and why May masquerading as a Peaky Blinder has been selected.
I'd take a Lewsey, Brown or Robinson over the curly haired assasin Hodgkinson or Webb type every time.
Webb hit great lines, he just wasn't very quick. Hodgkinson I agree just drained the life out of a backline that included Guscott.
Danno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:47 am
I'm a little bit over Steward.
I hate to say it but he's getting a bit like Mike Brown in that he offers a few very solid things but very little spark. I don't want him dropped and I certainly don't want to EJ him about by sticking him on a wing or midfield, but it would be nice to have a genuine option to switch in when we're not just scared of endless aerial bombardment.
Honestly think a season in France/NZ would work wonders for him (don't ban me please, Puja)
but hasn't the time to work on them, nor the competition to drive to get the best out of him.
'He hasn't the time to work on them'? Does he have less time than other full time pros? I'm not understanding that at all- what flaws do you mean?
The flaws I mean are: 1) the ease with which he's beaten one-on-one, 2) his ability to come into the line and offer a creative option, 3) top-level speed.
Considering he played more games than any other pro in England the past two seasons (and probably more minutes, but I don't know that one for sure), yeah he probably does have less time/energy/capacity than other full-time-pros to dedicate to solving the structural issues in his game. As an example, he hasn't had the time to do as Brown/May did and take time in the off season to work with a dedicated sprint coach cause he's been playing near solidly for two years, with his only breaks being minimally mandated recuperation time (which was waived on one occasion because he was needed).
Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:41 pm
given his turning circle is bigger than a tanker stuck in the suez canal, I'm not sure old clog hands is suited. Could be a bit of the Harry Mallinders going on.
In fairness to Fred-lar, he had a very good 10 minutes including the try- also, what a left footed kick from Mike's lad.
Fred (despite some pretty ropey moments of late) is a very fine full-back, I think he could become great over time, he's very young.
At a pinch I could see him at 13, not 12, but not sure why one would do that really.
If we were to move him, I think I'd play him on the wing to have that cross-field kick option and to still utilise his qualities under the high-ball.
It might enable us to play Smith at 15 (which I don't love but we can't argue he's made an impact from the bench) and then I'd throw Arundell on the other wing.
Smith 15, Arundell 11, Stewart 14 could be an option to play within in the coming games.
Daly has been poor imo, and May just isn't enough of a threat either for me. When SCWs sides weren't particularly creative, Jason Robinson made things happen, made openings with his footwork. Smith and Arundell will do that just from being on the pitch, they'll beat people and make openings, create doglegs etc even if Ford/Farrell/whoever is in the midfield are doing their best not to be creative.
Generally a very good 15 in the air, and usually error free. Not sure how much more of a running game we will see. 15 is his position though, for sure. Not enough gas for an intl wing. You can't start Smith at 15 in a big game, ditto Arundell tbh, so Steward is the only game in town.
but hasn't the time to work on them, nor the competition to drive to get the best out of him.
'He hasn't the time to work on them'? Does he have less time than other full time pros? I'm not understanding that at all- what flaws do you mean?
The flaws I mean are: 1) the ease with which he's beaten one-on-one, 2) his ability to come into the line and offer a creative option, 3) top-level speed.
but hasn't the time to work on them, nor the competition to drive to get the best out of him.
'He hasn't the time to work on them'? Does he have less time than other full time pros? I'm not understanding that at all- what flaws do you mean?
The flaws I mean are: 1) the ease with which he's beaten one-on-one, 2) his ability to come into the line and offer a creative option, 3) top-level speed.
Considering he played more games than any other pro in England the past two seasons (and probably more minutes, but I don't know that one for sure), yeah he probably does have less time/energy/capacity than other full-time-pros to dedicate to solving the structural issues in his game. As an example, he hasn't had the time to do as Brown/May did and take time in the off season to work with a dedicated sprint coach cause he's been playing near solidly for two years, with his only breaks being minimally mandated recuperation time (which was waived on one occasion because he was needed).
Puja
Not buying it. These are full time pros. Being beaten one on one is mostly agility- can do 1/2 hour every day. Coming into the line and offering a creative option (which- you either hit the line, or join the line/operate on the blindside) could be worked on in 3 of 5 training sessions, and extra time if he needs it. Speed again could be 20 mins 3 times a week. They have loads of time for their own thing outside team or unit sessions. Granted they aren't quick fixes, but...lots of time.
Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 3:28 pm
'He hasn't the time to work on them'? Does he have less time than other full time pros? I'm not understanding that at all- what flaws do you mean?
The flaws I mean are: 1) the ease with which he's beaten one-on-one, 2) his ability to come into the line and offer a creative option, 3) top-level speed.
Considering he played more games than any other pro in England the past two seasons (and probably more minutes, but I don't know that one for sure), yeah he probably does have less time/energy/capacity than other full-time-pros to dedicate to solving the structural issues in his game. As an example, he hasn't had the time to do as Brown/May did and take time in the off season to work with a dedicated sprint coach cause he's been playing near solidly for two years, with his only breaks being minimally mandated recuperation time (which was waived on one occasion because he was needed).
Puja
Not buying it. These are full time pros. Being beaten one on one is mostly agility- can do 1/2 hour every day. Coming into the line and offering a creative option (which- you either hit the line, or join the line/operate on the blindside) could be worked on in 3 of 5 training sessions, and extra time if he needs it. Speed again could be 20 mins 3 times a week. They have loads of time for their own thing outside team or unit sessions. Granted they aren't quick fixes, but...lots of time.
If he's playing more than anyone else, then he's got less time/energy than anyone else and he is still learning a hell of a lot in general as a young player only just starting his third full season. Other 22 year olds get downtime to develop and inculcate new skills and get mentored by senior pros, while Steward's actually been on reduced training at times because he's exceeded the maximum number of games in a season that are allowed by the EPS.
He's probably doing all of those things you mention (because he's not an idiot, or has advisers that aren't), but half an hour each day, fitted in around all his other training, is not going to touch the sides when it comes to an engrained technique flaw, nor is 20 mins speed training 3 times a week going to make any noticeable difference to his top-end pace. To my mind, the best thing for him would be to be overtaken by someone for England, and then sent back to Leicester to fix his game and get better.
Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:39 am
I'm a bit puzzled by Ford yesterday- he is a good kicker, with a great range of kicks; but his USP as a player is playing flat to the tackle line and putting runners over it. Then again, no-one was really running off him, so its a tad confusing; when a line was run, gainline was generally achieved. So do it more, rather than 3 set up plays for a kick.
This sums it up for me. We had so many opportunities of set, solid, attacking ball, where we passed to Ford and he had the square root of fuck all options available to him. At the absolute bare minimum, at all times, we need to give him one player running on each shoulder and an option out the back, but yesterday he was lucky if he had Daly standing still 15m behind and outside him.
Puja
I think Ford threw one pass on his inside all game. That was to May. I fear we're seeing the limitations of Wigglesworth as attack coach. We played so much of the attack off of Mitchell in the first half and really only gave the ball to Ford in multi phase during the second. With an openside as quick and as good ball in hand as Earl you'd really want him loitering on Ford's inside shoulder a lot more. Looked more like we were trying to split the flankers and have them stay wide though, not sure that really worked.
The attack really did look under nourished.
Earl’s pace was exceptional against Japan, and it’s the first time we‘ve seen some genuine attacking flair from an England flanker for a decade or more since Tom Croft and Tom Rees plied their trade.(Some fine snippets of linking play from the pre bulked up Tom Curry and more recently from Ludlam at 6 excepted).
The flaws I mean are: 1) the ease with which he's beaten one-on-one, 2) his ability to come into the line and offer a creative option, 3) top-level speed.
Considering he played more games than any other pro in England the past two seasons (and probably more minutes, but I don't know that one for sure), yeah he probably does have less time/energy/capacity than other full-time-pros to dedicate to solving the structural issues in his game. As an example, he hasn't had the time to do as Brown/May did and take time in the off season to work with a dedicated sprint coach cause he's been playing near solidly for two years, with his only breaks being minimally mandated recuperation time (which was waived on one occasion because he was needed).
Puja
Not buying it. These are full time pros. Being beaten one on one is mostly agility- can do 1/2 hour every day. Coming into the line and offering a creative option (which- you either hit the line, or join the line/operate on the blindside) could be worked on in 3 of 5 training sessions, and extra time if he needs it. Speed again could be 20 mins 3 times a week. They have loads of time for their own thing outside team or unit sessions. Granted they aren't quick fixes, but...lots of time.
If he's playing more than anyone else, then he's got less time/energy than anyone else and he is still learning a hell of a lot in general as a young player only just starting his third full season. Other 22 year olds get downtime to develop and inculcate new skills and get mentored by senior pros, while Steward's actually been on reduced training at times because he's exceeded the maximum number of games in a season that are allowed by the EPS.
He's probably doing all of those things you mention (because he's not an idiot, or has advisers that aren't), but half an hour each day, fitted in around all his other training, is not going to touch the sides when it comes to an engrained technique flaw, nor is 20 mins speed training 3 times a week going to make any noticeable difference to his top-end pace. To my mind, the best thing for him would be to be overtaken by someone for England, and then sent back to Leicester to fix his game and get better.
Puja
Nope, not buying it. His 15 basics are strong, he has work ons like all England players. He is a back, and can improve a lot of your stuff without contact and in his own and general training. 30 mins a day of intense handling would make a huge difference say. On speed training his s and c normal routine can be modded for more plyo and weights, his unit and team runs build in more acceleration, and an hour or two a weekin his own time for weights and/or technique.
That said, he could and should be doing this anyway. and btw, even if he has less time than other pros, that doesnt mean no time.
Not buying it. These are full time pros. Being beaten one on one is mostly agility- can do 1/2 hour every day. Coming into the line and offering a creative option (which- you either hit the line, or join the line/operate on the blindside) could be worked on in 3 of 5 training sessions, and extra time if he needs it. Speed again could be 20 mins 3 times a week. They have loads of time for their own thing outside team or unit sessions. Granted they aren't quick fixes, but...lots of time.
If he's playing more than anyone else, then he's got less time/energy than anyone else and he is still learning a hell of a lot in general as a young player only just starting his third full season. Other 22 year olds get downtime to develop and inculcate new skills and get mentored by senior pros, while Steward's actually been on reduced training at times because he's exceeded the maximum number of games in a season that are allowed by the EPS.
He's probably doing all of those things you mention (because he's not an idiot, or has advisers that aren't), but half an hour each day, fitted in around all his other training, is not going to touch the sides when it comes to an engrained technique flaw, nor is 20 mins speed training 3 times a week going to make any noticeable difference to his top-end pace. To my mind, the best thing for him would be to be overtaken by someone for England, and then sent back to Leicester to fix his game and get better.
Puja
Nope, not buying it. His 15 basics are strong, he has work ons like all England players. He is a back, and can improve a lot of your stuff without contact and in his own and general training. 30 mins a day of intense handling would make a huge difference say. On speed training his s and c normal routine can be modded for more plyo and weights, his unit and team runs build in more acceleration, and an hour or two a weekin his own time for weights and/or technique.
That said, he could and should be doing this anyway. and btw, even if he has less time than other pros, that doesnt mean no time.
Then it's a shame I'm not selling it. There's only so many hours in a day and so much work a player can do. Any increased emphasis on one area means a reduction in something else. That's physics for you.
If he's playing more than anyone else, then he's got less time/energy than anyone else and he is still learning a hell of a lot in general as a young player only just starting his third full season. Other 22 year olds get downtime to develop and inculcate new skills and get mentored by senior pros, while Steward's actually been on reduced training at times because he's exceeded the maximum number of games in a season that are allowed by the EPS.
He's probably doing all of those things you mention (because he's not an idiot, or has advisers that aren't), but half an hour each day, fitted in around all his other training, is not going to touch the sides when it comes to an engrained technique flaw, nor is 20 mins speed training 3 times a week going to make any noticeable difference to his top-end pace. To my mind, the best thing for him would be to be overtaken by someone for England, and then sent back to Leicester to fix his game and get better.
Puja
Nope, not buying it. His 15 basics are strong, he has work ons like all England players. He is a back, and can improve a lot of your stuff without contact and in his own and general training. 30 mins a day of intense handling would make a huge difference say. On speed training his s and c normal routine can be modded for more plyo and weights, his unit and team runs build in more acceleration, and an hour or two a weekin his own time for weights and/or technique.
That said, he could and should be doing this anyway. and btw, even if he has less time than other pros, that doesnt mean no time.
Then it's a shame I'm not selling it. There's only so many hours in a day and so much work a player can do. Any increased emphasis on one area means a reduction in something else. That's physics for you.
Puja
Depends on your priorities, and agility, pace and handling would be pretty high up for an international back.....and not necessarily a significant work increase. Its not like giving faz peripheral vision, a pass off the left, or a cockney accent.
p/d wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:20 pm
Rather than finding the time to work on aspects of his game how about removing the handcuffs of a game plan that he has become central to.
p/d wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:20 pm
Rather than finding the time to work on aspects of his game how about removing the handcuffs of a game plan that he has become central to.
Failing that call up RICH LANE
WR’s ban on Eng selecting RICH LANE!!! to ‘maintain the competitive integrity of test rugby’ is still in force, sadly.
p/d wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:20 pm
Rather than finding the time to work on aspects of his game how about removing the handcuffs of a game plan that he has become central to.
Failing that call up RICH LANE
Chicken meet (kinda) egg
Aye. Memories of him bursting onto the scene are those of a rangy lad coming into the line (at pace), picking excellent angles and showing good hands. Let alone hoovering everything up that was kicked at him.
And now we are discussing alternatives. Saying that I still want Arundel to start v Chile
but hasn't the time to work on them, nor the competition to drive to get the best out of him.
'He hasn't the time to work on them'? Does he have less time than other full time pros? I'm not understanding that at all- what flaws do you mean?
The flaws I mean are: 1) the ease with which he's beaten one-on-one, 2) his ability to come into the line and offer a creative option, 3) top-level speed.
Puja
I'd argue that number 2 isn't a weakness and that he actually did it well Vs Japan. My main issue Vs Japan was that he'd run a really nice line and then drop the fecking pass. He dropped 2 passes in the 22 in the first half, one was probably on for a try running a line for Mitchell to pick him out away from the bunched forwards close to the line early doors and the other was just inside the 22 running a hard line off of Ford who'd dropped into the boot. He doesn't drop those and we're not discussing his poor form in attack. Problem is he drops those, can't waste those chances at this level.
He looked good in the second half linking with Ford in the spell where he remembered how to catch before being subbed. Made good metres around the 15m channel.
He seems a relaxed and easy going guy. Someone needs to put a rocket up him, get the focus and aggression up a bit.
Steward’s going to be a busy man. He needs to work on his pace, agility, passing, catching, when and how to come in to the line and his mental toughness.
Goodness knows how he’ll do this when his coaches play him every weekend and have him train to capacity on team specific sessions. Poor mite.
On the plus side, Snoop BorthyBorth, in his wisdom, has made us so crap that Steward will have plenty of time from 16th Oct to work on the above. IBWT.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:27 am
Steward’s going to be a busy man. He needs to work on his pace, agility, passing, catching, when and how to come in to the line and his mental toughness.
Goodness knows how he’ll do this when his coaches play him every weekend and have him train to capacity on team specific sessions. Poor mite.
On the plus side, Snoop BorthyBorth, in his wisdom, has made us so crap that Steward will have plenty of time from 16th Oct to work on the above. IBWT.
It's normally me being the arch-pessimist! We have won two vital matches with questionable tactics but win them we did no matter how ugly most of it was to watch. Surely, the team can only improve even within SB's planned style of play? Reduce mistakes, exploit openings, keep 15 on the pitch and maybe win the QF?
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 9:27 am
Steward’s going to be a busy man. He needs to work on his pace, agility, passing, catching, when and how to come in to the line and his mental toughness.
Goodness knows how he’ll do this when his coaches play him every weekend and have him train to capacity on team specific sessions. Poor mite.
On the plus side, Snoop BorthyBorth, in his wisdom, has made us so crap that Steward will have plenty of time from 16th Oct to work on the above. IBWT.
It's normally me being the arch-pessimist! We have won two vital matches with questionable tactics but win them we did no matter how ugly most of it was to watch. Surely, the team can only improve even within SB's planned style of play? Reduce mistakes, exploit openings, keep 15 on the pitch and maybe win the QF?
