RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:As ever it only seems to make them more popular, and yet the hope remains the incompetence and corruption eventually carry a price

What we need is transparency about these contracts. Why were there insufficient legal clauses to ensure quality? Publish the contracts!

The Tories updated their procurement rules in 2015 to move away from competitive tender in certain circumstances, their corruption is pre-meditated.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 19272.html

But its equalities impact assessment added: “Any indirect difference on treatment on the grounds of race is anticipated to be potentially positive and objectively justified as a proportionate means of achieving our legitimate aim of reducing serious violence and preventing crime.”

Which Tyler wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 19272.html

But its equalities impact assessment added: “Any indirect difference on treatment on the grounds of race is anticipated to be potentially positive and objectively justified as a proportionate means of achieving our legitimate aim of reducing serious violence and preventing crime.”

W O W. Did they just try to argue that, okay they'll be searching more black people without cause, but they'll likely stop more crime because they'll be searching more black people, so all things told it's a net win, right?

Wow.

Puja

Ed Davey notes the Lib Dems are the gathering point for those fed up with the current government. Not sure, maybe he meant refuse point, I mean FFS if the best you've got to say is to talk about vouchers then just stay silent and be thought a fool

Starmer wants to scrap OMOV.

Zhivago wrote:Starmer wants to scrap OMOV.

I'm just getting more and more disappointed with Starmer.

.......

Still the best hope for this country though.

I still like him, even with his ongoing weirdness that he can present facts and that will prove useful. A little bit interesting that the block voting was ended to curtail lefty/union power and now they're looking to bring it back to curtail lefty/union power, though I say weird it's also classic management to seek progress by reversing previous decisions, and no doubt we can look forward to some future reversal of the reversal.

Despicable.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... n-aid-cuts

the sad thing ins't that he's wrong, it remains that Truss as the foreign office is nothing next to a useless fat <insert expletive> penis provider being PM

Meanwhile, Starmer has belatedly realised that engaging in a dick-waving power struggle within his own party might not actually be the kind of content that voters are remotely interested in and has since come out with some actual policies, priorities and, gods help us, he might even have found some principles that will guide his Labour party.

Far better to try and woo the left wing of the party with some actual socialist and worker-based policies like taxing private schools to improve public education and greening the steel industry, rather than try and batter them into submission. Plus, actually standing for something will give the voting public a chance to vote *for* something, rather than against the other side.

The role of a credible opposition is to differentiate themselves from the status quo and point out what they'd do differently. And let's face it, there's no better way to differentiate yourself from Johnson's Conservatives than having a plan before you start.

Puja

Sneak preview of BJ's speech later today:

If you can keep your job when all around you
Lies ravaged from what it is you’ve done;
If intellect and common sense confound you
And if integrity you have but none;
If you can lie and not be tired of lying,
And pretend you act for the public good,
But then leave the people to their dying
And say you did, sadly, all you could;

If you can dream – of nothing more than power;
If you can think – but only of yourself;
If you believe this country’s finest hour
Is when the chosen few can gain more wealth;
If you can flout the law with bluff and bluster,
And not care whether you are believed,
Or deny with scorn every single blunder
And not care how many you may deceive;

If you can stir up hatred, fear and violence
To create division to suit your ends;
And answer cries for help with silence,
And then laugh about it with your friends;
If you can stretch this country to its limit
Or until it is you’ve had your fun,
Yours is this land and everything that’s in it,
And – as you wished – you’ll be PM, my son.

Brian Bilston

Which Tyler wrote:If you can keep your job when all around you
Lies ravaged from what it is you’ve done;
If intellect and common sense confound you
And if integrity you have but none;
If you can lie and not be tired of lying,
And pretend you act for the public good,
But then leave the people to their dying
And say you did, sadly, all you could;

If you can dream – of nothing more than power;
If you can think – but only of yourself;
If you believe this country’s finest hour
Is when the chosen few can gain more wealth;
If you can flout the law with bluff and bluster,
And not care whether you are believed,
Or deny with scorn every single blunder
And not care how many you may deceive;

If you can stir up hatred, fear and violence
To create division to suit your ends;
And answer cries for help with silence,
And then laugh about it with your friends;
If you can stretch this country to its limit
Or until it is you’ve had your fun,
Yours is this land and everything that’s in it,
And – as you wished – you’ll be PM, my son.

Brian Bilston

Quality!

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:As ever it only seems to make them more popular, and yet the hope remains the incompetence and corruption eventually carry a price

It'll only carry a price when the Sun, Mail, Express or Telegraph starts complaining about it.

Pleased to see that at least some of those have paid attention to the current corruption scandal. And so the Tories have taken a hit in the polls.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:As ever it only seems to make them more popular, and yet the hope remains the incompetence and corruption eventually carry a price

It'll only carry a price when the Sun, Mail, Express or Telegraph starts complaining about it.

Pleased to see that at least some of those have paid attention to the current corruption scandal. And so the Tories have taken a hit in the polls.

I saw an article announcing the massive hit that the Tories have taken in the polls and opened it to discover that that means they're only 1% ahead of Labour now instead of 6%.

Like, what the fuck Britain. How, after everything, are we just getting to the idea that, maybe the other side might not be worse, rather than them being utterly unelectable?

Puja

Puja wrote:Like, what the fuck Britain. How, after everything, are we just getting to the idea that, maybe the other side might not be worse, rather than them being utterly unelectable?

A] Petty nationalism
B] My team, right or wrong
C] Get Brexit Done

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Digby wrote:As ever it only seems to make them more popular, and yet the hope remains the incompetence and corruption eventually carry a price

It'll only carry a price when the Sun, Mail, Express or Telegraph starts complaining about it.

Pleased to see that at least some of those have paid attention to the current corruption scandal. And so the Tories have taken a hit in the polls.

Labour should be surging ahead though. Boris and his team keep on handing them the open goals.

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:Like, what the fuck Britain. How, after everything, are we just getting to the idea that, maybe the other side might not be worse, rather than them being utterly unelectable?

A] Petty nationalism
B] My team, right or wrong
C] Get Brexit Done

Yes to all that and also the hangover from Corbyn. Labour hasn’t rebuilt trust yet.

Sandydragon wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:Like, what the fuck Britain. How, after everything, are we just getting to the idea that, maybe the other side might not be worse, rather than them being utterly unelectable?

A] Petty nationalism
B] My team, right or wrong
C] Get Brexit Done

Yes to all that and also the hangover from Corbyn. Labour hasn’t rebuilt trust yet.

Labour has though got the government putting in place a number of Labour policies to try and ensure the government stay ahead in the polls. Labour might well deem them Labour Lite and think anyway they'd be more competent, but it's not nothing as an opposition to have the government trying to take your space, it's just boring and gains little traction given the mix of people voting their party and/or simply not paying any attention

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Which Tyler wrote: A] Petty nationalism
B] My team, right or wrong
C] Get Brexit Done

Yes to all that and also the hangover from Corbyn. Labour hasn’t rebuilt trust yet.

Labour has though got the government putting in place a number of Labour policies to try and ensure the government stay ahead in the polls. Labour might well deem them Labour Lite and think anyway they'd be more competent, but it's not nothing as an opposition to have the government trying to take your space, it's just boring and gains little traction given the mix of people voting their party and/or simply not paying any attention

Getting some Labour-esque policies in is nice, but it's a condemnation of the opposition that the Government are widely acknowledged to be a collection of corrupt, useless, hoof-wanking bunglecunts, but are still favourites for the next election. No-one has an idea of what a Labour government would mean and what it would stand for - it's notable that the narrowing of the opinion polls is Conservative losing favour without Labour actually gaining it.

I'm hoping Starmer is keeping his powder dry and plans an all-out assault on the public consciousness close to the next election, but if that's the case, then this feels like a selection of open goals that he's looking at and saying, "Nah, there'll be a better one later."

Puja

Puja wrote: but if that's the case, then this feels like a selection of open goals that he's looking at and saying, "Nah, there'll be a better one later."

Now you mention it...

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Yes to all that and also the hangover from Corbyn. Labour hasn’t rebuilt trust yet.

Labour has though got the government putting in place a number of Labour policies to try and ensure the government stay ahead in the polls. Labour might well deem them Labour Lite and think anyway they'd be more competent, but it's not nothing as an opposition to have the government trying to take your space, it's just boring and gains little traction given the mix of people voting their party and/or simply not paying any attention

Getting some Labour-esque policies in is nice, but it's a condemnation of the opposition that the Government are widely acknowledged to be a collection of corrupt, useless, hoof-wanking bunglecunts, but are still favourites for the next election. No-one has an idea of what a Labour government would mean and what it would stand for - it's notable that the narrowing of the opinion polls is Conservative losing favour without Labour actually gaining it.

I'm hoping Starmer is keeping his powder dry and plans an all-out assault on the public consciousness close to the next election, but if that's the case, then this feels like a selection of open goals that he's looking at and saying, "Nah, there'll be a better one later."

Puja

If the public want the incompetent and the venal that's their choice. And okay it's a FPP system, but incompetent and venal does seem to be a preference

Starmer does have some problems, the loss of some traditional labour voters (who the party have ignored for too long, maybe since Kinnock, certainly since Smith) to the easier trappings of nationalism, and the damage done by Corbyn, and that to address either of those problems without compounding the other is difficult, both to address within the party and to the public

Also Starmer still seems to think being factual and honest have more merit than they do and he needs to overcome that court style delivery, one might think it a shame but that's where the voters are.

I don't feel sorry for Starmer, he asked for the job and part of the reason he's struggling is him. He'll either get it done or get fired, which is really how it should be

Starmer has a massive problem in that he is seen as utterly tedious. I think he is very competent but probably is more of a supporting workhorse than the party leader. That might seem harsh but a leader needs to have a little personality.

Corbyn had charisma as leader but then became toxic as his politics became better known. I also think his strong GE showing was largely the result of May’s awful campaign.

You need a Labour leader who can cut through and appeal to normal people. I don’t think Angela Rayner is that person. She has personality but comments like Tory scum demonstrate a certain immaturity. Unless Burnham or Kahn step up (don’t think they will until after the next GE) then I don’t see the aspiring new leader who can move Labour forward.

Of course we often don't see who the rising forces in a party are, so maybe there's someone with a brain and personality yet to emerge.

The issue of corruption is perfect for Starmer to take up. He needs to do this and not let it go till the election. He needs to demand the 2nd jobs for MPs be banned (with some reasonable exceptions maybe), something which is easy to make a case for, should be popular and will have an obvious impact on corrupt lobbying. And that's just the start. The tragedy is that he needs someone like Alastair Campbell (although preferably not such a piece of shit) to advise him on the cut and thrust required.