RugbyRebels

cashead wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

cashead wrote: Yeah, but worthless ain't gonna cut it when you're in opposition.

We saw the same thing in NZ, which seems to be the Crosby-Textor beta test political scene, where we had our own Tory scum PM with a carefully manufactured buffoon act stay in power while being actively harmful to the nation.

NZ Labour managed to tip the scales in their favour when they installed a leader that had massive public appeal, and used CT tactics against the government, which was wrapped up in a message of relentless positivity.

There's also something to be said in often speaking publicly in easy-to-digest soundbites. "Oven Ready Brexit." "Get Brexit Done." Like, you knew exactly what they were trying to sell. Compare that to "It's time for a real change," which J-Corbz evidently thought was a real vote winner. The fuck does it even mean? It's bland, vague and it sounds so generic.

There are a lot of other factors, mind, like FPP being the shittiest shitty shit voting system that was ever shat out by a bunch of shits that know fuck about shit, or the complete lack of party discipline in 2019 - I hope Mumbly Joe or Sir Kevin or whatever he calls him self has managed to keep a lid on that sort of thing.

Yes, that's a good tactic. Unfortunately none of the candidates had it.

Ardern isn't someone that popped in out of nowhere. She succeeded Andrew Little, who was able to unite the caucus (credit should go to his first deputy, Annette King, who had connections across the various factions, and helped unite them under his banner), and when she retired, he promoted Ardern as his deputy. Early on, she was pegged as a potential future Party Leader, and it's just that it came a lot sooner than anyone had expected.

Surely there's someone similar who's young and has been pegged for big things down the line?

Puja wrote:

cashead wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: Yes, that's a good tactic. Unfortunately none of the candidates had it.

Ardern isn't someone that popped in out of nowhere. She succeeded Andrew Little, who was able to unite the caucus (credit should go to his first deputy, Annette King, who had connections across the various factions, and helped unite them under his banner), and when she retired, he promoted Ardern as his deputy. Early on, she was pegged as a potential future Party Leader, and it's just that it came a lot sooner than anyone had expected.

Surely there's someone similar who's young and has been pegged for big things down the line?

The closest they have is probably Nadia Whittome and there's no way that the party machinery at large will let someone with that many principles near the leadership. They learned the lesson from Blair that the *only* way to power was to occupy the centre ground as hard as you can.

Puja

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

cashead wrote: Ardern isn't someone that popped in out of nowhere. She succeeded Andrew Little, who was able to unite the caucus (credit should go to his first deputy, Annette King, who had connections across the various factions, and helped unite them under his banner), and when she retired, he promoted Ardern as his deputy. Early on, she was pegged as a potential future Party Leader, and it's just that it came a lot sooner than anyone had expected.

Surely there's someone similar who's young and has been pegged for big things down the line?

The closest they have is probably Nadia Whittome and there's no way that the party machinery at large will let someone with that many principles near the leadership. They learned the lesson from Blair that the *only* way to power was to occupy the centre ground as hard as you can.

Puja

That's the problem. Starmer DOES have principles, but it's the team behind him that's crap. Someone else I think is good is Clive Lewis - what's happened to him?

But it's the system behind it that's broken. The UK needs a new party to come along and brief against the civil service, basically. The amount of waste and corruption is huge and someone could come along and win votes simply by being "not political elite".

Sure, they'd need funding from somewhere, but I think you'd be surprised by how little they'd actually need.

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:
The closest they have is probably Nadia Whittome and there's no way that the party machinery at large will let someone with that many principles near the leadership. They learned the lesson from Blair that the *only* way to power was to occupy the centre ground as hard as you can.

Puja

That's the problem. Starmer DOES have principles, but it's the team behind him that's crap. Someone else I think is good is Clive Lewis - what's happened to him?

But it's the system behind it that's broken. The UK needs a new party to come along and brief against the civil service, basically. The amount of waste and corruption is huge and someone could come along and win votes simply by being "not political elite".

Sure, they'd need funding from somewhere, but I think you'd be surprised by how little they'd actually need.

Many good Labour politicians abandoned ship during the Corbyn era.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:
That's the problem. Starmer DOES have principles, but it's the team behind him that's crap. Someone else I think is good is Clive Lewis - what's happened to him?

But it's the system behind it that's broken. The UK needs a new party to come along and brief against the civil service, basically. The amount of waste and corruption is huge and someone could come along and win votes simply by being "not political elite".

Sure, they'd need funding from somewhere, but I think you'd be surprised by how little they'd actually need.

Many good Labour politicians abandoned ship during the Corbyn era.

Yep, and I'm sure Chuka and the rest have some regrers about self-destructing their careers.

Puja wrote:
The closest they have is probably Nadia Whittome and there's no way that the party machinery at large will let someone with that many principles near the leadership. They learned the lesson from Blair that the *only* way to power was to occupy the centre ground as hard as you can.

Puja

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
The closest they have is probably Nadia Whittome and there's no way that the party machinery at large will let someone with that many principles near the leadership. They learned the lesson from Blair that the *only* way to power was to occupy the centre ground as hard as you can.

Puja

The pro-remain individual who spent the referendum criticising the EU? Doesn't scream an astute leader of campaigns. Also she's so far proved something of a quitter, albeit she's obviously very young.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
The closest they have is probably Nadia Whittome and there's no way that the party machinery at large will let someone with that many principles near the leadership. They learned the lesson from Blair that the *only* way to power was to occupy the centre ground as hard as you can.

Puja

The pro-remain individual who spent the referendum criticising the EU? Doesn't scream an astute leader of campaigns. Also she's so far proved something of a quitter, albeit she's obviously very young.

Go on, I'll bite - tell me how she's "something of a quitter".

Puja

Which Tyler wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... 75443?123=

Nothing says "This is entirely above board" quite like putting a bin bag over the CCTV camera
Mirror.jpg

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... 75443?123=

Nothing says "This is entirely above board" quite like putting a bin bag over the CCTV camera
Mirror.jpg

Just found out that it's not a binbag, but a curtain viewed at a weird angle.

Capture.PNG

Boris is corrupt in many ways, but this isn't one of them.

Puja

Which Tyler wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Having an issue with needing to show ID to vote is such a weird thing. No other country would have a problem with that.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Having an issue with needing to show ID to vote is such a weird thing. No other country would have a problem with that.

It's not a problem if everyone already has national ID cards*.


* Not that I'm arguing for that.

Puja wrote: It's not just the UK though - lots of countries don't need ID to vote, as a sizeable chunk of people don't have photo ID and they tend to be the ones in most need of representation.

Puja wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
Having an issue with needing to show ID to vote is such a weird thing. No other country would have a problem with that.

It's not a problem if everyone already has national ID cards*.


* Not that I'm arguing for that.

I have to say, the one thing that put me in favour of national ID cards is reading about the Estonian system where you can vote by internet. That would be a massive increase in the ability to vote and it's just not doable without a pre-existing ID card system. Mind, I wouldn't trust anyone in this country to deliver a solid government-commissioned IT project of that size anyway, given previous experience.

It's not just the UK though - lots of countries don't need ID to vote, as a sizeable chunk of people don't have photo ID and they tend to be the ones in most need of representation.

Puja

Which Tyler wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:That's a huge swing, and as ever, voting is down for a byelection versus general; but it's worth noting that the leftish vote (Lab + LD + Green) still saw a frank increase in numbers compared to the the GE19 (by about 20%), despite overall votes dropping.

Of course it's a protest vote, and will almost certainly return to blue at a GE with a new leader - but it's still one hell of an indication of the dissatisfaction in the country.