Squad for Wales

[Banquo]

Looks pretty damning from the footage i've seen. Genge could be in a heap of trouble.

I'm hoping that the footage isn't conclusive enough for the citing team to find their minerals. Leicester desperately need him back.

The Welsh board also seem convinced that Daly's tackle on Adams was a horrific abomination that Adams was lucky to survive. It looked to me exactly the same as Slade's tackle in the RWC semi that the Kiwis fainted over - launching a shoulder in, making first contact well below the high tackle line with the arm and the force of the contact bouncing everyone away and making it look like a shoulder. But I can't find any easily accessible replay footage (and I'm buggered if I'm attempting to navigate Amazon's awful video player again) - am I drastically wrong?

Puja

No- it was absolutely fine, even by your definition of reckless:)

[Puja]

Looks pretty damning from the footage i've seen. Genge could be in a heap of trouble.

I'm hoping that the footage isn't conclusive enough for the citing team to find their minerals. Leicester desperately need him back.

The Welsh board also seem convinced that Daly's tackle on Adams was a horrific abomination that Adams was lucky to survive. It looked to me exactly the same as Slade's tackle in the RWC semi that the Kiwis fainted over - launching a shoulder in, making first contact well below the high tackle line with the arm and the force of the contact bouncing everyone away and making it look like a shoulder. But I can't find any easily accessible replay footage (and I'm buggered if I'm attempting to navigate Amazon's awful video player again) - am I drastically wrong?

Puja

No- it was absolutely fine, even by your definition of reckless:)

I was waiting for that!

Mind, there was absolutely no reason why he couldn't've gone lower - wasn't like he didn't have time to set himself and pick his spot. In fact, it would've been a more devastating contact if he had hit him in the midriff. I don't know why our backs keep going into tackles upright - May and Ford have started doing it too. We've got Underhill and Launchbury absolutely destroying people by bending at the hips and using physics to drive people backwards, yet all our backs seem to have adopted an upright "hug-and-flail" judo technique.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

Looks pretty damning from the footage i've seen. Genge could be in a heap of trouble.

I'm hoping that the footage isn't conclusive enough for the citing team to find their minerals. Leicester desperately need him back.

The Welsh board also seem convinced that Daly's tackle on Adams was a horrific abomination that Adams was lucky to survive. It looked to me exactly the same as Slade's tackle in the RWC semi that the Kiwis fainted over - launching a shoulder in, making first contact well below the high tackle line with the arm and the force of the contact bouncing everyone away and making it look like a shoulder. But I can't find any easily accessible replay footage (and I'm buggered if I'm attempting to navigate Amazon's awful video player again) - am I drastically wrong?

Puja

My take on the initial viewing was that it was borderline but the replay showed it wasn't anything, just dominant. I didn't think the tackled player reacted. Could all be my mid game England goggles.

[Oakboy]

The clear out on Daly in the second half could do with another look.

It was bad. Could have been a nasty injury- surprised it was only an ankle strain. That would also have seen Robson play wing for a while. Not a fan of 6:2

I thought the same at the time but I suppose Jones could argue that it was just unlucky, should the injury have taken Daly off, that it was just after Watson came on.

[Scrumhead]

The Genge footage doesn’t look that ‘damning’ to me. It’s not an obvious ‘headbutt’ as I’ve seen it reported. I think we’d have seen a hell of a lot more reaction if it had been.

[Danno]

It looks more like Francis dragging him backwards and both of them falling over. I can't see any contact and as SH says, there'd have been a lot more fall out on the pitch if there had been. Nonsense imo

[twitchy]

[16th man]

I'm reminded of that Alright Nigel crying baby meme their fans were so fond of 5 years ago.

[FKAS]

I didn’t manage the whole match but if he beat Launchbury to motm, he must have played a blinder. Every section of game I saw, launch was doing something excellent. Back to his best.

I agree I think Launchbury is back to his best, not something I expected. I'd pretty much written him off as squad filler until being overtaken by others. Not quite as mobile as he was in his youth but experience has made him better in the tight exchanges. Not sure about MOTM though, he was still the second best lock on the England team. Itoje is just so good every week I think people have stopped noticing.

I think Launchbury is simply proving that he is our second best lock. Others have put Lawes and Kruis into that category at times but I have always rated Launchbury as only bettered by Itoje. Lawes must be quite concened about regaining a slot in the 23. Hill is likely to remain 3rd choice, I'd guess.

Maybe. Before his return to form with Wasps and the working partnership with Rowlands he was almost out the picture. Six Nations he was no where close to selection and rightfully so. He's worked hard to get himself back in to contention but there's little between him and Hill for me. Good to see Launchbury back making his case but he hasn't been at this level for a couple of years at least.

Kruis and Lawes are not playing so it's hard to gauge where they are. Lock is an area of real competition as Ewels is finding out having been tipped to be the go to for Jones only to find himself out of mind at present.

[FKAS]

The Genge footage doesn’t look that ‘damning’ to me. It’s not an obvious ‘headbutt’ as I’ve seen it reported. I think we’d have seen a hell of a lot more reaction if it had been.

My thought seeing that was, where's the headbutt? Genge is less than a foot away, if he throws a headbutt the evidence will be clear to see on the face of Francis. Probably with his nose spread across his face. Just looks like a bitter Welsh social media troll to me.

The Daly incident was reviewed and fine. Shoulder makes contact with chest area first and arms are attempting to wrap. Could have been a penalty as the shoulder bounced up from the chest a little but a penalty would have been the maximum. Adams does dip into it though Daly does need to consider dropping his height a little, if he can as those can come off badly if you slip into the tackle and end up going higher than you planned.

I know the ref is getting some stick but I thought it was the same for both sides really. Biggar knocked on for the Welsh try. Got the benefit of the doubt. Biggar jumped into the unsighted English defender unnecessarily and Underhill got the benefit of the doubt. The Welsh defender blocking Underhill who steps out the way so Biggar can land on him should have been pinged before Underhill. Then again both sides were allowed to block the runners only Sam Warburton moaned about it in commentary for Wales. Shame that as he's normally a good commentator.

[Banquo]

I'm hoping that the footage isn't conclusive enough for the citing team to find their minerals. Leicester desperately need him back.

The Welsh board also seem convinced that Daly's tackle on Adams was a horrific abomination that Adams was lucky to survive. It looked to me exactly the same as Slade's tackle in the RWC semi that the Kiwis fainted over - launching a shoulder in, making first contact well below the high tackle line with the arm and the force of the contact bouncing everyone away and making it look like a shoulder. But I can't find any easily accessible replay footage (and I'm buggered if I'm attempting to navigate Amazon's awful video player again) - am I drastically wrong?

Puja

No- it was absolutely fine, even by your definition of reckless:)

I was waiting for that!

Mind, there was absolutely no reason why he couldn't've gone lower - wasn't like he didn't have time to set himself and pick his spot. In fact, it would've been a more devastating contact if he had hit him in the midriff. I don't know why our backs keep going into tackles upright - May and Ford have started doing it too. We've got Underhill and Launchbury absolutely destroying people by bending at the hips and using physics to drive people backwards, yet all our backs seem to have adopted an upright "hug-and-flail" judo technique.

Puja

He correctly stopped any chance of an offload.

Whilst we are here- Itoje and Launchbury, discuss

And it was good to see Curry used in the lineout early doors.

[Banquo]

The clear out on Daly in the second half could do with another look.

It was bad. Could have been a nasty injury- surprised it was only an ankle strain. That would also have seen Robson play wing for a while. Not a fan of 6:2

I thought the same at the time but I suppose Jones could argue that it was just unlucky, should the injury have taken Daly off, that it was just after Watson came on.

6:2 is unlucky waiting to happen, and unnecessary

[Banquo]

Thems sour grapes; he let them have a hooky old try, so maybe that’s what is annoying them?

[Banquo]

Btw- England missed 9 tackles. Farrell missed 5 of them- and three easy kicks, and nearly decapitated a taff. I know the ST is mad, but 8/10?
Most players would get a bit of a hammering for that eg Charlie Hodgson, and Faz was at 12, where you are expected to make your tackles.
He’s been very poor by any standard this autumn, yet....

[Mikey Brown]

But his work rate! Remember when he called a mark last week?

I possibly would have forgotten about it but somehow I’ve heard it mentioned about 3 times since.

[Puja]

No- it was absolutely fine, even by your definition of reckless:)

I was waiting for that!

Mind, there was absolutely no reason why he couldn't've gone lower - wasn't like he didn't have time to set himself and pick his spot. In fact, it would've been a more devastating contact if he had hit him in the midriff. I don't know why our backs keep going into tackles upright - May and Ford have started doing it too. We've got Underhill and Launchbury absolutely destroying people by bending at the hips and using physics to drive people backwards, yet all our backs seem to have adopted an upright "hug-and-flail" judo technique.

Puja

He correctly stopped any chance of an offload.

Whilst we are here- Itoje and Launchbury, discuss

And it was good to see Curry used in the lineout early doors.

I still remain unconvinced that Itoje/Launchbury/Curry is a suitable lineout against a competent forward pack, but we'll have to see. I am steering clear of any other discussion on the subject as clearly this is an area where my damaged memory has let me down and I don't want to argue a subject where it's been proven that my broken brain is unreliable.

Puja

[switchskier]

The Genge footage doesn’t look that ‘damning’ to me. It’s not an obvious ‘headbutt’ as I’ve seen it reported. I think we’d have seen a hell of a lot more reaction if it had been.

My thought seeing that was, where's the headbutt? Genge is less than a foot away, if he throws a headbutt the evidence will be clear to see on the face of Francis. Probably with his nose spread across his face. Just looks like a bitter Welsh social media troll to me.
.

I don't think that I agree. Even if he didn't connect, it's a strange looking movement in this clip. No idea what Paul Williams is talking about with LCD pushing him. Can't see that sort of momentum from an extended arm.

It's not a good look running away with a huge grin on his face if you do think that there's something in it. Bit he does seem a character that thrives on a bit of niggle.

[Timbo]

The Genge footage doesn’t look that ‘damning’ to me. It’s not an obvious ‘headbutt’ as I’ve seen it reported. I think we’d have seen a hell of a lot more reaction if it had been.

My thought seeing that was, where's the headbutt? Genge is less than a foot away, if he throws a headbutt the evidence will be clear to see on the face of Francis. Probably with his nose spread across his face. Just looks like a bitter Welsh social media troll to me.
.

Even if he didn't connect

That’s the point though. From the only angle available it’s literally impossible to see if there’s an actual headbutt. Lots of things can look dodgy from certain angles on a 2d screen.

[FKAS]

The Genge footage doesn’t look that ‘damning’ to me. It’s not an obvious ‘headbutt’ as I’ve seen it reported. I think we’d have seen a hell of a lot more reaction if it had been.

My thought seeing that was, where's the headbutt? Genge is less than a foot away, if he throws a headbutt the evidence will be clear to see on the face of Francis. Probably with his nose spread across his face. Just looks like a bitter Welsh social media troll to me.
.

I don't think that I agree. Even if he didn't connect, it's a strange looking movement in this clip. No idea what Paul Williams is talking about with LCD pushing him. Can't see that sort of momentum from an extended arm.

It's not a good look running away with a huge grin on his face if you do think that there's something in it. Bit he does seem a character that thrives on a bit of niggle.

Often in the fight but never the one throwing punches. He normally likes to dish out the verbals and then smile with his hands down as the opposition reacts daring them to hit him.

The acceleration of him going down is what makes it look odd. Need another angle to see if that's Francis pulling him or Genge diving in top of him. The head being tucked in looks more defensive than taking aim. Generally you aim for face with a headbutt that doesn't look close for me. If Genge is the one diving into Francis then he's going to leave himself open to a citing though a general lack of evidence to any real contact will probably see it thrown out.



Genge isn't happy with the insinuation.

[FKAS]

Btw- England missed 9 tackles. Farrell missed 5 of them- and three easy kicks, and nearly decapitated a taff. I know the ST is mad, but 8/10?
Most players would get a bit of a hammering for that eg Charlie Hodgson, and Faz was at 12, where you are expected to make your tackles.
He’s been very poor by any standard this autumn, yet....

Farrell was awful. The irony of the Sunday Times review is that on the last page of the sports section is a piece about lazy journalism in sport and how sports journalists report based on the result and not the details of the game. The Sunday Times review of the players largely looks like it was written pre game. AWJ matching Itoje and Farrell the best England back, it was a laughably bad game review.

[Banquo]

I was waiting for that!

Mind, there was absolutely no reason why he couldn't've gone lower - wasn't like he didn't have time to set himself and pick his spot. In fact, it would've been a more devastating contact if he had hit him in the midriff. I don't know why our backs keep going into tackles upright - May and Ford have started doing it too. We've got Underhill and Launchbury absolutely destroying people by bending at the hips and using physics to drive people backwards, yet all our backs seem to have adopted an upright "hug-and-flail" judo technique.

Puja

He correctly stopped any chance of an offload.

Whilst we are here- Itoje and Launchbury, discuss

And it was good to see Curry used in the lineout early doors.

I still remain unconvinced that Itoje/Launchbury/Curry is a suitable lineout against a competent forward pack, but we'll have to see. I am steering clear of any other discussion on the subject as clearly this is an area where my damaged memory has let me down and I don't want to argue a subject where it's been proven that my broken brain is unreliable.

Puja

Fair enough.

[Banquo]

Btw- England missed 9 tackles. Farrell missed 5 of them- and three easy kicks, and nearly decapitated a taff. I know the ST is mad, but 8/10?
Most players would get a bit of a hammering for that eg Charlie Hodgson, and Faz was at 12, where you are expected to make your tackles.
He’s been very poor by any standard this autumn, yet....

Farrell was awful. The irony of the Sunday Times review is that on the last page of the sports section is a piece about lazy journalism in sport and how sports journalists report based on the result and not the details of the game. The Sunday Times review of the players largely looks like it was written pre game. AWJ matching Itoje and Farrell the best England back, it was a laughably bad game review.

I read Walsh’s piece too, and it was poor in its own way.

I’m as mystified as ever about Faz’s millions of caps and the Emperor’s new clothes effect he has. I can sort of see why forwards like Dayglo like him, but, he really is not a 91 cap player. Well he is, but wtf

[fivepointer]

Farrell has been our worst player this Autumn.

Even by his so-so standards, he has been awful.

[Mr Mwenda]

I think he looks nervous, I wonder if he's been told his place is not as secure as it seems.

[Oakboy]

Farrell has been our worst player this Autumn.

Even by his so-so standards, he has been awful.

I think that if Jones had the brain and nerve to make Itoje captain, after a game or two, with honest impartial assessment, Farrell would disappear. But it won't happen because, frankly, I think Jones as H/C and Farrell as captain/10/12 are all the same issue.