Banquo wrote:
Neither picked Faz to be fair. They both had slightly odd selections for blokes who talk sense ie not Guscott, Dawson or Greenwood.
Ah, right. ROG said on ‘The Verdict’ after Farrell’s first match that you have to pick him and Warburton has long been a fan in tv punditry and in print.
Watching Greenwood play - possibly my favourite ever - you’d think he’d make a great pundit.....
Both went Biggar, as it were.
Well, a good Biggar is better than a good Littlar.
Spiffy wrote:Sloppy Lions lucky to be 21 up at the half against a team of enthusiastic Stormers kids.
Hogg doing his best to play himself out of the test 15 shirt.
Feels much like many of these warm up games, where with the quality of the opposition it doesn't feel like just doing the basics will be enough to win a test spot. We seem to be playing a very restricted game-plan with a few guys looking desperate and overplaying their hands when they get a chance.
francoisfou wrote:Would Gatland have the balls to select Smith for the Test?
He has to.
Why? This is a poor team they are playing. Aside from the overall daftness of this tour, the Lions prep games are a well constructed joke by SA.
True, the provincial opposition hasn’t exactly been out of the top drawer, but you play what’s in front of you and Smith has undoubtedly ticked all the boxes. The Bokke, however, are on another level and some may say it would be madness to select him. I don’t! Biggar may be the safer option; Farrell has already played himself out of contention and Russell is allegedly nursing an injury. The first Test will be won not by showing physicality but by guile, and Smith’s the man for the job. Pick him !!
Why? This is a poor team they are playing. Aside from the overall daftness of this tour, the Lions prep games are a well constructed joke by SA.
True, the provincial opposition hasn’t exactly been out of the top drawer, but you play what’s in front of you and Smith has undoubtedly ticked all the boxes. The Bokke, however, are on another level and some may say it would be madness to select him. I don’t! Biggar may be the safer option; Farrell has already played himself out of contention and Russell is allegedly nursing an injury. The first Test will be won not by showing physicality but by guile, and Smith’s the man for the job. Pick him !!
You and I have literally no idea if he can perform at true test level. You will have to have both physicality AND guile, it’s not binary. Smith would either be the messiah or a very naughty boy…bit binary there
francoisfou wrote:Would Gatland have the balls to select Smith for the Test?
He has to.
I only saw the last 20 minutes, when it was clear that the game was won and that Smith was able to have low-pressure fun. What was he like at the beginning when the game was tighter?
francoisfou wrote:Would Gatland have the balls to select Smith for the Test?
He has to.
I only saw the last 20 minutes, when it was clear that the game was won and that Smith was able to have low-pressure fun. What was he like at the beginning when the game was tighter?
Puja
He played confidently and varied his attacking play and didn’t shirk tackling the bigger Stormers’ players. For Gatland, the first Test has to be won. Lose and the series will be surely lost. The Lions will not get the better of the Boks physically (Eddie Jones knows that), and as I wrote in an earlier post, the Lions will need to outfox them by showing guile. Players like Curry and Watson(Hamish) have a vital rôle to play, as do Beirne and Conan. There is pace outside with the other Watson and Adams and with Smith orchestrating there is a chance that that crucial first Test can be won.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I can’t recall any British/Irish refs being invited to officiate in previous Lions’ tours. I find it refreshing and reassuring that Wayne Barnes is there.
Banquo wrote:
Why? This is a poor team they are playing. Aside from the overall daftness of this tour, the Lions prep games are a well constructed joke by SA.
True, the provincial opposition hasn’t exactly been out of the top drawer, but you play what’s in front of you and Smith has undoubtedly ticked all the boxes. The Bokke, however, are on another level and some may say it would be madness to select him. I don’t! Biggar may be the safer option; Farrell has already played himself out of contention and Russell is allegedly nursing an injury. The first Test will be won not by showing physicality but by guile, and Smith’s the man for the job. Pick him !!
You and I have literally no idea if he can perform at true test level. You will have to have both physicality AND guile, it’s not binary. Smith would either be the messiah or a very naughty boy…bit binary there
Better that than the wooden soldier. The Boks are going to smash you with all they've got. Smith brings his forwards in the fight, has a sweet pass into the gap, so what is the problem. You play Farrell at 10, you will lose. Ditto at 12. I hope they knock the red off you so the south can brag for the next 4 years, but if I was a Bok I'd have much more difficulty containing Smith. You want a pivot of an extra flanker?
I only saw the last 20 minutes, when it was clear that the game was won and that Smith was able to have low-pressure fun. What was he like at the beginning when the game was tighter?
Puja
He played confidently and varied his attacking play and didn’t shirk tackling the bigger Stormers’ players. For Gatland, the first Test has to be won. Lose and the series will be surely lost. The Lions will not get the better of the Boks physically (Eddie Jones knows that), and as I wrote in an earlier post, the Lions will need to outfox them by showing guile. Players like Curry and Watson(Hamish) have a vital rôle to play, as do Beirne and Conan. There is pace outside with the other Watson and Adams and with Smith orchestrating there is a chance that that crucial first Test can be won.
I'm not sure I buy the theory that the Springboks are this insuperable team that you have to do something incredible to best. They're a very good team, definitely, but they're not a step-change above everyone else (and they weren't back in 2019 either - they put England away, but that game could've worked out very differently, as could the Wales one. They weren't inherently superior at that tournament) and I don't know that it's "throw this young tyro in at the deep end and pray miracles happen cause anything else is a loss" time.
If Biggar's fit, he's a better bet to me. I hope for great things from Smith, but he is young, he's not the finished article yet and I'm concerned that South Africa away is an awfully big step up to make.
This whole thing could've been avoided by having the actual best 10 in the British Isles on tour, but I don't believe Ford's even on Gatland's reserve list, so there we are.
I love watching Smith, and there were moments today during the monotony when he’d actually get the ball and start putting players through gaps, and I remembered that’s what’s actually exciting about watching rugby. It’s easily dismissed as it wasn’t a real opposition though, so back to grit and grind.
Puja wrote:[This whole thing could've been avoided by having the actual best 10 in the British Isles on tour, but I don't believe Ford's even on Gatland's reserve list, so there we are.
I thought he was injured? Not that Gatland would have taken him anyway
To me it looked like today was largely a case of giving the forwards a hit-out, not giving anything away in terms of attacking structure and letting the backs play what they see without being too silly until the game was buried. In that context Smith looked about as you would expect, no real connection with Price and we spent a lot of the game 'playing' off nine with front rowers at first receiver. He definitely gets marks knocked off for not missing early kicks to build pressure on himself and demonstrate the coolness of his demeanour by slotting the late one (school-boy error really).
In terms of putting forward a test match claim, LCD did LCD very well indeed, chop tackles, top-class turn-overs, nasty carrying etc. (I genuinely think he is way ahead of George now). Allie Price looked good to me, kicked well to compete, kept the defence interested and kept the game moving. Adam Beard could easily start with Itoje and I wouldn't blink. AWJ came on a didn't look like a guy who's arm was hanging off...
In the negatives column big Duane showed exactly what he can (run) and can't (spot when the run is over and pass the bloody ball) do, so I reckon he's out of test contention if he was ever in. Adam's was quiet, but I think the lack of attacking structure mitigated against him having any ball/space to work with (which might be bollocks cos Duane got lots of ball).
Some might see it different but today felt a bit like the sort of Hamish Watson performance that makes some feel he's not quite Tom Curry's equal. He played decently, but to my mind wasn't as effective as Curry against inferior opposition compared to Wednesday.
I genuinely think that Biggar, Furlong and Itoje are the only 3 players I'd bet a week's wages on starting next Saturday.
Puja wrote:[This whole thing could've been avoided by having the actual best 10 in the British Isles on tour, but I don't believe Ford's even on Gatland's reserve list, so there we are.
I thought he was injured? Not that Gatland would have taken him anyway
I think he's taken the opportunity to get properly fit and well instead of dragging a niggling injury around. It's great news for both England and Leicester, so I'm not really complaining. I don't know if he'd've changed his plans if Gatland had had any interest in him whatsoever, but I think knowing he wasn't going to be involved meant this was the perfect time for him to actually heal.
Mikey Brown wrote:I love watching Smith, and there were moments today during the monotony when he’d actually get the ball and start putting players through gaps, and I remembered that’s what’s actually exciting about watching rugby. It’s easily dismissed as it wasn’t a real opposition though, so back to grit and grind.
Biggar is still in the hot seat though.
If Biggar is fit he should start. Russell seems out of contention for the moment with injury. Farrell is fekking useless as an attacking 10 and brings little to the12 channel as well. I am disappointed every time I see his name on the team sheet. He is living on an undeserved reputation and brings nothing to the party. So I'd have Biggar starting with Smith on the bench. Don't care if he is not experienced. Everyone has to start somewhere and the Lions' only hope is to try and play some adventurous running rugby and avoid an arm wrestle with the Bok pack up front. Just go for it, but at least give it a thrash instead of the dull and doomed safety first route.
Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Beirne
Watson
Faletau
Murray
Russell
Adams
Farrell (I didn't think I was gonna write that!)
Henshaw
Watson
Hogg
Wyn Jones
Owens
Sinckler (would be close to starting him)
Lawes
Curry
Price
Daly
DVDM (actually a but confused about the backs subs - my first two plus who's on the pitch provides loads of cover so was tempted by Aki or another forward - Duham definitely adds something if you are chasing a game though and has looked a bit more rounded this tour)
After today, (plus seeing the second half of Wednesday's game), I'd make a few changes but not too many:
Wyn Jones
George
Sinkler
Itoje
AWJ
Beirne
Watson
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams (though I'd be very close to starting DVDM - he possibly takes it too far but I think he has been very good)
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Hogg (saw someone say he wasn't good today but I thought he looked so composed and was supporting every break - a real standout for me)
Sutherland
Cowan Dickie
Furlong - close one
Henderson
Curry
Price
Daly
Smith
Still don't really like the balance in the backs but we have what we have.
