EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Mellsblue]

The AWC teams are very much B teams.
If your plan is to spread the same TV money across more teams you might as well file your plan in PRL’s bin.
Have you asked the RFU if they want to finance the extra academies? As far as I’m aware there is nothing to stop them doing it at present if they thought it a good idea. If there is some way of PRL stopping them, then I’d file that bit of the plan in the PRL dustbin as well.

[Mellsblue]

Wow, there's no evidence that something that's never happened could ever happen. When's the last time Bedford, or Nottingham, or Pirates, or whoever else played a Premiership team? If you can't bring bigger crowds to bigger matches, then absolutely something is being done wrong.

Bedford have played both Wuss and LI in the last few years. Crowds were not significantly bigger, if bigger at all. Though, you are really missing my point that playing Wuss and LI aren’t bigger matches. Mainly as they don’t have many star players to attract the crowds - even if you assume the likes Franks, Hougaard, Olivier stay with them, and we know Franks hasn’t - and there are genuine rivalries in the Champ built over years that even the stardust of Jonny Arr couldn’t out shine.
To get down to brass tacks, you think your plan gives more marketable fixtures and I suspect that won’t be true based on the fact that attendances for matches against Bristol/Wuss/LI over the last few years don’t support that view.

[Which Tyler]

I'll be sure to tell Charteris, Burns, Priestland, Banahan etc that they're B team players on a level with those used for the B&I Cup whilst the seniors are busy.
I know, and have acknowledged that repeatedly; it can join every proposal ever for improving quality of matches &/ player welfare. However, I've also mitigated it with things they want, such as not (well, barely) reducing home matches and allowing ring fencing to protect investment.
No have you asked Bedford if they want more chance at promotion, more money to spend, more administrative assistance, an RFU funded academy and a chance to play against Leicester or Northampton?
There wouldn't be a way for PRL to stop them, the 8 Champ teams that accept the invitation would be added to PRL.


So, when did Bedford play a co petitive match against Wuss or LI whilst they were in the premiership?

Wait what? Playing better clubs with better players arent bigger matches? Really? That's your argument?

To get down to brass tacks, you're turning down the offer of £3.5M per season because something that's never happened hasn't happened. That there's a 50% chance that you'd play 1 fewer match (and a 25% chance that you'd play 1 more knock-out match). And that the security of ring fencing is just too risky.

[Mellsblue]

Of course Bedford would want all of those things. The problem is you have to persuade the PRL to give up on two home matches and give away quite a large chunk of their income from the RFU, Aviva and BT Sport and that ain’t going to happen.

What has playing Bedford playing those teams in Prem got to do with funding a fully professional Champ? By your own argument it’s about significantly increasing gate receipts by playing those teams in the Champ, and that hasn’t happened when those teams have been in the Champ.

Yep, I’ll argue that just because a club has better players it’s not necessarily a bigger match, as rivalries are very important. I’m sure Bath v Glos is viewed as bigger than Bath v Sarries and I can tell you for certain that Bedford v Doncaster or Nottingham is bigger than Bedford v Wuss or LI.

If there is nothing stopping the RFU putting academies at Champ clubs and it’s something they think it’s a good idea and they want to spend the money on, then why haven’t they already done it. I’d also like to know where they are going to put these academies at Bedford, Nottingham etc as those clubs don’t have the facilities to house them.

Finally, no, I’m not turning down £3.5m for Bedford for those reasons. I’m saying Bedford will never have the opportunity to turn the money down as the PRL won’t give up any of their pie and I very much doubt you’ll see the increase in attendances you predict.

As always, we are going round in circles and we won’t change the others mind, so that’s me done.

[Which Tyler]

Okay, so your entire argument is that PRL won't vote for it so it's pointless discussing it?
Well, that puts an end to any suggestions to improve the game in England, even as interesting thought experiments.

Give PRL what they (desperately) want makes it potentially viable, close enough to be worth discussing IMO; sonic won't stop trying to discuss it.

Because you're turning down the chance to play current Prem teams because they're no bigger than non-current Prem teams.
If you think better teams aren't bigger/better matches, then you're simply wrong, more of them is a good thing. Yes, derbies have annattraction of their own as well, luckily Leicester or Northampton are closer to Bedford than Pirates or Edinburgh.

There's nothing stopping RFU from investing in more academies, but there's also nothing encouraging them to. My plan changes that - that's the thing with change, it changes things!

My argument has little to do with gate receipts. I think there's a good chance that they'd see the 7% increase which would mitigate the (maximum) of 1 fewer match. You think that the loss of that 1 match makes the whole thing financially unviable, even if it comes with more money and higher quality matches.

You're turning down free money because I've come up with a proposal to give you free money and you don't want it because you don't think someone would offer you free money.

You haven't tried to change my mind. You've said that we shouldn't look for solutions because solutions won't happen.
You've said that my proposal won't work for the Championship because the Premiership won't vote for it - which is nothing to do with why it wouldn't work for the Championship.

[Mikey Brown]

The simple fact of the matter is that we don’t actually know for sure that Simmonds is any more of a ‘true openside’ than Underhill at this point.

[p/d]

The simple fact of the matter is that we don’t actually know for sure that Simmonds is any more of a ‘true openside’ than Underhill at this point.

But is Kvesic a 6, 8 or could he do a stint at openside

[Timbo]

I think there are a whole load of Prem clubs that would be in quite severe financial difficulty if you took a big chunk of the TV cash away from them. Most of them are only just keeping their heads above water as things stand.

[Oakboy]

The simple fact of the matter is that we don’t actually know for sure that Simmonds is any more of a ‘true openside’ than Underhill at this point.

But is Kvesic a 6, 8 or could he do a stint at openside

For England? Do you see something to convince you that he's good enough? I have always thought Kvesic over-rated, maybe yet another sacrifice on the altar of the 'real openside' holy grail. He is, what, 5th or 6th choice for an Exeter back-row starting shirt. Simmonds is at least in Exeter's best three backrowers, as is Armand. Both should be way ahead of Kvesic in England consideration at 6,7 or 8.

[Stom]

The simple fact of the matter is that we don’t actually know for sure that Simmonds is any more of a ‘true openside’ than Underhill at this point.

But is Kvesic a 6, 8 or could he do a stint at openside

For England? Do you see something to convince you that he's good enough? I have always thought Kvesic over-rated, maybe yet another sacrifice on the altar of the 'real openside' holy grail. He is, what, 5th or 6th choice for an Exeter back-row starting shirt. Simmonds is at least in Exeter's best three backrowers, as is Armand. Both should be way ahead of Kvesic in England consideration at 6,7 or 8.

Sorry Dors, but joke, meet the air above your head...

[Oakboy]

But is Kvesic a 6, 8 or could he do a stint at openside

For England? Do you see something to convince you that he's good enough? I have always thought Kvesic over-rated, maybe yet another sacrifice on the altar of the 'real openside' holy grail. He is, what, 5th or 6th choice for an Exeter back-row starting shirt. Simmonds is at least in Exeter's best three backrowers, as is Armand. Both should be way ahead of Kvesic in England consideration at 6,7 or 8.

Sorry Dors, but joke, meet the air above your head...

Stom, you'll need to explain that. Sorry to be thick.

[Banquo]

For England? Do you see something to convince you that he's good enough? I have always thought Kvesic over-rated, maybe yet another sacrifice on the altar of the 'real openside' holy grail. He is, what, 5th or 6th choice for an Exeter back-row starting shirt. Simmonds is at least in Exeter's best three backrowers, as is Armand. Both should be way ahead of Kvesic in England consideration at 6,7 or 8.

Sorry Dors, but joke, meet the air above your head...

Stom, you'll need to explain that. Sorry to be thick.

P/D was trying to lighten the mood from the ringfencing debate, and put the thread somewhat back on topic.

[Mellsblue]

Sorry Dors, but joke, meet the air above your head...

Stom, you'll need to explain that. Sorry to be thick.

P/D was trying to lighten the mood from the ringfencing debate, and put the thread somewhat back on topic.

He seems to have failed on both counts!!!!

[Oakboy]

Sorry, not too bright today!!

[Scrumhead]

A couple of noteworthy moments from Dave Attwood in the Munster vs. Toulon Game including a nice 15-20m break.

Could be interesting to see what happens with him next season if he continues like this at Toulon.

[Digby]

Stom, you'll need to explain that. Sorry to be thick.

P/D was trying to lighten the mood from the ringfencing debate, and put the thread somewhat back on topic.

He seems to have failed on both counts!!!!

No doubt he's gone to put on his white shellsuit to sit head in hands wondering where it all went wrong

[Mikey Brown]

A couple of noteworthy moments from Dave Attwood in the Munster vs. Toulon Game including a nice 15-20m break.

Could be interesting to see what happens with him next season if he continues like this at Toulon.

Good to hear.

I don’t really see him clawing his way back for England but given EJ’s whole “finishers” obsession he would have been a great fit. In that period before Burt started (supposedly) fucking him around he was an absolute beast coming off the bench for 25 minutes.

[Scrumhead]

Who knows? Kruis’ form has dropped off a cliff and Ewels isn’t doing anything special so if Attwood goes back to Bath with a enough of a spring in his step, he could be difficult to ignore.

[twitchy]

Why are you guys worrying about who our 6th choice second row is?

[Which Tyler]

Why are you guys worrying about who our 6th choice second row is?

Because 3 of our top 4 need a rest this summer?
Because we've just seen Attwood on telly for the first time in a year?
Because 3 of our top 4 aren't in top form?
Because it's that or talking about ring fencing?

I guess we COULD talk about the backrow balance again? or who April's Messiah is going to be?

[Mellsblue]

Why are you guys worrying about who our 6th choice second row is?

Because with Lawes out of the summer tour due to injury we are only one more injury away from taking our 6th choice lock, and because there are calls to rest the Lions and particularly Itoje.

[twitchy]

Fair enough. How is spencer's form currently? I remember being very impressed with him early in the season.

[fivepointer]

Attwood is a viable touring option. He's experienced, easily good enough to play at international level, is getting good game time and should be pretty fresh after missing so much rugby.
I'd happily take him along with Launch, Ewels, Isiekwe along with with one or two newbies like Spencer, Skinner or Ribbans.

[Mellsblue]

If Attwood can stay fit for the rest of the season I think the RFU should buy a club on the Med. We could then send all our injury prone players to play in the warmth. I thought similar when Wilko went from permacrock in Newcastle to invincible at Toulon. Ring fencing, sming fencing.

[Scrumhead]

I can’t be bothered to create a thread for Quins vs. London Irish, but it’s good to see Clifford starting.