Trump

[Mellsblue]

'Guns have more rights than my vagina'. Quality work there, Sister.

Ha. That is good work.

[kk67]

'Guns have more rights than my vagina'. Quality work there, Sister.

Ha. That is good work.

Pleased it wasn't just me.

[Digby]

The Manafort trial commences this week with the man himself now having dropped his civil action against Mueller, Iran doesn't perhaps want talks without preconditions having observed Trump's declarations of a win in previous talks, North Korea is perhaps getting back into the nuclear programme, Trump has a plan to save the elites billions in tax that circumvents congress, the good fight is still being taken to sports and the environment, the media are breaking confidences on private conversations where Trump has already gone public with a selective interpretation of reality, there's a possible government shutdown in the offing over funding of the wall, there's plenty more but don't worry because Jared is all over peace in the middle east and the opioid crisis, and somehow it's a normal week in Washington

[morepork]

What a serial bullshit artist. It's just fucking embarrassing.

[Puja]

It's Manafort that baffles me. He is absolutely dead to rights on tax evasion and will spend the rest of his life in jail unless he makes a deal with Mueller and yet he's determined to go to trial. And why? Out of loyalty to Trump? Surely if the last two years has shown anything, it's that Trump's only loyalty is to himself and he cares nothing for anyone who doesn't directly benefit him.

Can Trump outright pardon him, despite him being clearly and definitively guilty?

Puja

[Digby]

Trump can pardon any federal crime he wants. though whether such executive privilege sits alongside any notion of draining the swamp is more than open to question

Mind given he's busy undermining the mmc and staffing it with friends and supporters to the cost of US taxpayers whilst undermining the quality of projects might draw some to conclude he's full of McDonald's, which is to say shit

[Which Tyler]

Trump can pardon any federal crime he wants. though whether such executive privilege sits alongside any notion of draining the swamp is more than open to question

My understanding* is that pardoning himself (or anyone else) for a federal crime not only still leaves him (or whoever) open to prosecution at the state level; whilst also removing the right to take the 5th - a right that no mobster gives up willingly.
Of course, double jeopardy laws may apply, but the separation between federal and state law should see to that; but tinkering with wording almost certainly will.
If he pardons himself, the New York DA will be sniffing blood.


* NB, I have no expertise here - but I do chat to people who seem to know what they're talking about, and can reference their opinions extensively

[Digby]

It also depends what the pardon is for
Trump in my view is much more likely to issue very specific pardons he thinks he can get away with and not a blanket pardon to all possible criminal acts, say for unpaid tax which he can probably sell, especially if he was able to claim some tax would be repaid. If that did happen you could of course still take the 5th on issues pertaining to non tax matters

What I don’t know is suppose you're asked in a federal court about a matter you've received a pardon for can you really lose 5th amendment protection if you may face non federal charges? That seems unlikely but the law often surprises

[Which Tyler]

Again, the following is my understanding from listening to people who (seem to) know what they're talking about...

Accepting a pardon is seen as an admission of guilt; and if you've been pardoned, then you cannot incriminate yourself, as that's already happened - so you'd lose the 5th for matters pertaining to that pardon.
And somewhere in there, is enough wriggle-room to keep a lot of lawyers busy and paid for a long time.

[morepork]

Again, the following is my understanding from listening to people who (seem to) know what they're talking about...

Accepting a pardon is seen as an admission of guilt; and if you've been pardoned, then you cannot incriminate yourself, as that's already happened - so you'd lose the 5th for matters pertaining to that pardon.
And somewhere in there, is enough wriggle-room to keep a lot of lawyers busy and paid for a long time.

Syphoning the inherited wealth off stupid cunts that don't understand the legal system is the national sport in 'Murrica.

[cashead]

Trump can pardon any federal crime he wants. though whether such executive privilege sits alongside any notion of draining the swamp is more than open to question

My understanding* is that pardoning himself (or anyone else) for a federal crime not only still leaves him (or whoever) open to prosecution at the state level; whilst also removing the right to take the 5th - a right that no mobster gives up willingly.
Of course, double jeopardy laws may apply, but the separation between federal and state law should see to that; but tinkering with wording almost certainly will.
If he pardons himself, the New York DA will be sniffing blood.


* NB, I have no expertise here - but I do chat to people who seem to know what they're talking about, and can reference their opinions extensively

A pardon to himself is still tantamount to an admission of guilt since legally, I’ve been told it’s basically “yep, you’re guilty but that’s OK with us.”

[Sandydragon]

In any other time this would be a huge revelation. With Trump it somehow seems normal.

[kk67]

Did anyone else see the US removed a paragraph on affordable treatment for tuberculosis from a UN treaty ?.
Anyone know the contents of said para'..?. It was reported on Russia Today but I've not seen it mentioned elsewhere.

[morepork]

Do you want to chat about IP and pharma?

[WaspInWales]

He really isn't stupid enough to force Sessions to can Mueller's investigation?

Surely not?!?

I'm sure some of his core support will lap it up, but I reckon many will begin to question their support.

Does anyone know if that could lead to a likelihood of impeachment?

[kk67]

Do you want to chat about IP and pharma?

I'll go too far, you'll initially disagree and then we'll find a happy medium whereby we agree they're all a bunch of wankers...?.

[Puja]

Do you want to chat about IP and pharma?

I'll go too far, you'll initially disagree and then we'll find a happy medium whereby we agree they're all a bunch of wankers...?.

We may as well shut the board down here; I think we've achieved complete entelechy.

Trump's started hacking away at the Manafort case on Twitter claiming that he's being treated worse than Capone and it's all rigged and biased. Clearly setting it up to be discredited as anti-Trump politics in the eyes of his supporters so that when he pardons him, it can be spun as righting a wrong, rather than cheating the legal system.

Puja

[Digby]

He really isn't stupid enough to force Sessions to can Mueller's investigation?

Surely not?!?

I'm sure some of his core support will lap it up, but I reckon many will begin to question their support.

Does anyone know if that could lead to a likelihood of impeachment?

It might lead to impeachment but what it wouldn’t do is end the investigation, it'd only send ownership of the process back to the FBI

[Digby]

It's just possible that not only does trump not do much grocery shopping but that he's never even been in a grocery store. kudos to the staffer who set him up to look such a nonse on ID requirements

[Mikey Brown]

Meant to say alcohol apparently. What’s the point in even allowing him to speak if he is this error prone?

[Digby]

It's not even that normal to get asked for ID when buying booze based on my limited exposure to the states, more common than here but that's not a high bar to clear

[kk67]

He really isn't stupid enough to force Sessions to can Mueller's investigation?

Surely not?!?

I'm sure some of his core support will lap it up, but I reckon many will begin to question their support.

Does anyone know if that could lead to a likelihood of impeachment?

It might lead to impeachment but what it wouldn’t do is end the investigation, it'd only send ownership of the process back to the FBI

It's reaching a stage where even impeachment won't change anything.
Ken Livingstone is notorious for claiming that 'if voting changed anything, they'd ban it'.

Cunty McCunt Trump is rewriting the political lexicon.

[morepork]

Is he fuck. Mother can't even read. It's a reality TV marathon paid for by the public.

[kk67]

It's a reality TV marathon paid for by the public.

It's the same. The psychopaths are in charge.

[morepork]

That particular one thinks he is, but he isn't.