RugbyRebels

For how long? Forever?

Would you let John Leslie back on Blue Peter? Or do you think he would be welcomed back by any reputable TV company? Leslie didn't even face a court before charges were dropped.

The entertainment business is pretty rigid when it comes to sexual impropriety because a large chunk of their paying public are just as rigid, if not more so. Earlier in the thread the point was made that someone accused of a sexual crime is, in the public eye, guilty until proven innocent - and probably not even then. It is unfair, but no less so than a legal system that allows a defence counsel to attack the character and testimony of a victim of sexual assault in court in order to introduce that shred of doubt that will result in acquittal.

You will notice that I have consistently used the word acquittal when referring to the outcome of the Jackson and Olding court case. I have not used and will not use the word innocent.

So, for me, this is one of those cases where I do not want to see either of them play rugby in Ireland again.

The entertainment industry is notoriously forgiving about sexual accusations, as the ongoing careers of Roman Polanski and Woody Allen attest.

I think I'd struggle to see either play for Ireland again. I wouldn't want either to represent me, and I feel that if they felt they deserved to pay for Ireland or Ulster it would be a pretty clear indication that they didn't. However I don't feel at all the same about them playing elsewhere, even for London Irish where there's every chance I'll become a season ticket holder again.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:I agree with everything that Serj says, except that vaginal tears can just happen. There's research on it and they're really bad indicators of consent, occurring in something like 7% of consensual intercourse iirc, and only 23% of non-consensual. However the reason I raise it is that you might expect someone to show at least a modicum of concern for a person bleeding and failure to do so indicates much the same as whatsapps.

Said doctor that your special pal refers to (Lavery) did more good than damage to PJ's defence from what I understand so that's somewhat ironic. Medical examination was filmed but no evidence of a cut is visible but we're told it's "there". No examination done to rule out menstrual blood (which Serj does at least address - the colour of your clothes are bona fide evidence when concluding whether a woman is on her period or not apparently) & admitted there was no conclusive evidence as to what caused it or whether it was consensual or not.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The entertainment industry is notoriously forgiving about sexual accusations, as the ongoing careers of Roman Polanski and Woody Allen attest.

I think I'd struggle to see either play for Ireland again.

I can see why you wouldn’t, as an Ireland supporter, but it would be quite a sight for the neutral.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The entertainment industry is notoriously forgiving about sexual accusations, as the ongoing careers of Roman Polanski and Woody Allen attest.

I think I'd struggle to see either play for Ireland again.

I can see why you wouldn’t, as an Ireland supporter, but it would be quite a sight for the neutral.

Lol. Though I hear Woody is big in the tackle .

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The entertainment industry is notoriously forgiving about sexual accusations, as the ongoing careers of Roman Polanski and Woody Allen attest.

I think I'd struggle to see either play for Ireland again. I wouldn't want either to represent me, and I feel that if they felt they deserved to pay for Ireland or Ulster it would be a pretty clear indication that they didn't. However I don't feel at all the same about them playing elsewhere, even for London Irish where there's every chance I'll become a season ticket holder again.

I find it difficult to reconcile your position about them playing for Ireland and your position about them paying for London Irish, surely if there is a principal at stake then the team should be inconsequential?

Good point, what if Eugene went to the game and then threw his milkshake over PJ in protest?

What if Eugene threw his milkshake over PJ's trousers and the other London Irish supporter threw their milkshake in his face?

I hadn't realised Eugene was Kelis

If Eugene was Kelis I would have opened a thread for The Yard and invited her to post pictures.

The most troubling element of this thread, and there are many, is that Diggers has started using GIFs.

I was going to claim rather than just having started to use GIFs I invented them, or that at least back in the 1980s we had a BBC home computer and that's basically the equivalent. Then I found myself trying to remember what that BBC computer looked like so I googled images for BBC home computer. Long story short I'd overlooked googling images with the description BBC home computer was going to return some images that could well soon ensure some follow up questions as to my behaviour

Before deleting/clearing can you at least take one for the team and post links to the worst of it on here? The more exploitative and misogynistic the better as it will reinforce h_w’s delusions of normality.

Looking forward to Serj's condemnation of the alleged irish "pisser"

No alleged about it. The man has form and there is little doubt that it happened - not that Leinster or the IRFU are now in any position to take much by way of administrative sanction as the individual is, or will shortly be, out of contract with both.

But let's not pretend that this even comes close, by way of a comparator.

Olding had a great season by all accounts.
He is in the PRO D2 season's XV.

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Adder wrote:Olding had a great season by all accounts.
He is in the PRO D2 season's XV.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) using Tapatalk

Apparently so, and the overall standard of rugby in ProD2 has been good.
Bayonne and Brive are promoted and will play in the Top14 next season, and although they are both clubs with a lot of experience at this level they'll surely be among the favourites for relegation.

SerjeantWildgoose wrote:No alleged about it. The man has form and there is little doubt that it happened - not that Leinster or the IRFU are now in any position to take much by way of administrative sanction as the individual is, or will shortly be, out of contract with both.

But let's not pretend that this even comes close, by way of a comparator.

Close to what? Have Jackson and Olding committed a crime?

Assuming he's guilty then yes I do think pissing on someones leg and/or knocking someone unconscious is more serious than a couple of rude whatsapp messages objectifying women.

London Irish's sponsors have started making rumblings about the signing, with the owners of Guinness saying they have "serious concerns regarding their [Irish's] decision, which is not consistent with our values." Cash Converters have also cancelled their sponsorship with Irish, although the club claims Jackson was not the reason.

Not really sure how Irish can square that circle. As Hugh has pointed out many times, Jackson did not meet the standard of proof required to be found guilty of rape in an Irish court, and they knew who he was when they signed him, so there's no grounds to renege on the signing. However, as anyone else has noted, not meeting standard of proof to be found guilty of rape in an Irish court is not the same as being innocent or even not being probably a rapist, and it's understandable that companies don't want their names emblazoned across the chest of someone who's probably a rapist. Either way, this is going to cost them.

Puja

Perhaps Hugh could bale them out. He doesn't seem to give much of a f*ck.

Puja wrote:London Irish's sponsors have started making rumblings about the signing, with the owners of Guinness saying they have "serious concerns regarding their [Irish's] decision, which is not consistent with our values." Cash Converters have also cancelled their sponsorship with Irish, although the club claims Jackson was not the reason.

Not really sure how Irish can square that circle. As Hugh has pointed out many times, Jackson did not meet the standard of proof required to be found guilty of rape in an Irish court, and they knew who he was when they signed him, so there's no grounds to renege on the signing. However, as anyone else has noted, not meeting standard of proof to be found guilty of rape in an Irish court is not the same as being innocent or even not being probably a rapist, and it's understandable that companies don't want their names emblazoned across the chest of someone who's probably a rapist. Either way, this is going to cost them.

Puja

Yep. Entirely predictable too. Olding's path is the more sensible - hide out in France at least until things get a bit less contentious here.