Sutherland
George
Furlong
Itoje
Henderson
Beirne
Watson
Faletau
Murray
Russell
Adams
Farrell (I didn't think I was gonna write that!)
Henshaw
Watson
Hogg
Wyn Jones
Owens
Sinckler (would be close to starting him)
Lawes
Curry
Price
Daly
DVDM (actually a but confused about the backs subs - my first two plus who's on the pitch provides loads of cover so was tempted by Aki or another forward - Duham definitely adds something if you are chasing a game though and has looked a bit more rounded this tour)
After today, (plus seeing the second half of Wednesday's game), I'd make a few changes but not too many:
Wyn Jones
George
Sinkler
Itoje
AWJ
Beirne
Watson
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams (though I'd be very close to starting DVDM - he possibly takes it too far but I think he has been very good)
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Hogg (saw someone say he wasn't good today but I thought he looked so composed and was supporting every break - a real standout for me)
Sutherland
Cowan Dickie
Furlong - close one
Henderson
Curry
Price
Daly
Smith
Still don't really like the balance in the backs but we have what we have.
francoisfou wrote:
True, the provincial opposition hasn’t exactly been out of the top drawer, but you play what’s in front of you and Smith has undoubtedly ticked all the boxes. The Bokke, however, are on another level and some may say it would be madness to select him. I don’t! Biggar may be the safer option; Farrell has already played himself out of contention and Russell is allegedly nursing an injury. The first Test will be won not by showing physicality but by guile, and Smith’s the man for the job. Pick him !!
You and I have literally no idea if he can perform at true test level. You will have to have both physicality AND guile, it’s not binary. Smith would either be the messiah or a very naughty boy…bit binary there
Better that than the wooden soldier. The Boks are going to smash you with all they've got. Smith brings his forwards in the fight, has a sweet pass into the gap, so what is the problem. You play Farrell at 10, you will lose. Ditto at 12. I hope they knock the red off you so the south can brag for the next 4 years, but if I was a Bok I'd have much more difficulty containing Smith. You want a pivot of an extra flanker?
Where did o say I’d pick Farrell. I said the opposite earlier.
It was great to watch Smith play and play well. Really pleased with his defence, nothing bone rattling just getting the legs. Kicking and distribution good and nailing all conversions.
However he won’t start as a fit Biggar is good for all the above with the added experience of playing at the highest level.
Just chuffed for the lad he got 80mins in a Lions jersey
Farrell to start, I reckon. He can systematically "robustly tackle" the Boks until the ref notices him. I think he can take out 10 of them before the ref become suspicious.
The number of pundits selecting on past glories is staggering. Both Farrell and Murray have been well below par yet they make test teams. The best half back combination is Price and Biggar. Smith is definitely one for the future.
Our back three is a huge area of contention as no one has been perfect but there have been some great performances. Adams is a fine all round player who finishes well. VDM has been a real star of the tour but does have some weaknesses. High and Liam Williams have both been good. Watson is a quality player.
If all fit I think it will be Adam’s, Williams and Watson. But I wonder if the idea of VDM being involved is just too tempting, even if off the bench.
Harris has surely done enough to get a centre spot and Henshaw would be the other I’d go for. Daly has a great boot and some nice touches but he gets bypassed in defence too often.
The front row I would go for Wyn Jones, George and Furlogh. Replacement double be Mako, Owens and Sinkler.
Second row has to include Itoje. Do we risk AWJ in there so soon back? We need a tour captain who can actually lead and we lacked some leadership against the Bokke A side. Equally the starting locks yesterday both made a strong case. I liked the way Beard took the driving maul away from the Bokke A when he came on and that’s a big plus.
I’m going for AWJ and Itoje with Beard on the bench. I was even tempted by Itoje at blindside but restrained myself from that call.
Back row is a really hard call. Faletau has started to come good and offers a lot of experience. Simmonds offers a lot of the bench.
Curry had a good game against the A side. Watson has been strong throughout. Beirne has had his moments too, or does Gatland move Curry to blindside and go for a mobile back row?
I think that we might see a 6/2 split on the bench, unless Gatland wants VDM on the bench. I suspect Davies plus Farrell the latter covering a lot of positions. Unles he decides to have a punt on Smith on the bench, and take a slight gamble if a Center gets injured.
Aside from the obvious front row replacements, I think we might have Simmonds, Watson and a lock on the bench.
Given the obvious brutality to come, I think Gatland will want to front up to that and keep a strong forward element on the bench. So, I’m going for:
Wyn Jones
George
Furlough
AWJ
Itoje
Beirne
Curry
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Liam Williams
Vunipola
Owens
Sinkler
Beard
Watson
Simmonds
Davies
Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
Not that I disagree with Daly starting 13, but... really not for his defence.
well if you don't trust his defence at 13, why would you play him there? He's a poor defender at 13, and hasn't exactly had a lot of test level practice there.
Sandydragon wrote:The number of pundits selecting on past glories is staggering. Both Farrell and Murray have been well below par yet they make test teams. The best half back combination is Price and Biggar. Smith is definitely one for the future.
Our back three is a huge area of contention as no one has been perfect but there have been some great performances. Adams is a fine all round player who finishes well. VDM has been a real star of the tour but does have some weaknesses. High and Liam Williams have both been good. Watson is a quality player.
If all fit I think it will be Adam’s, Williams and Watson. But I wonder if the idea of VDM being involved is just too tempting, even if off the bench.
Harris has surely done enough to get a centre spot and Henshaw would be the other I’d go for. Daly has a great boot and some nice touches but he gets bypassed in defence too often.
The front row I would go for Wyn Jones, George and Furlogh. Replacement double be Mako, Owens and Sinkler.
Second row has to include Itoje. Do we risk AWJ in there so soon back? We need a tour captain who can actually lead and we lacked some leadership against the Bokke A side. Equally the starting locks yesterday both made a strong case. I liked the way Beard took the driving maul away from the Bokke A when he came on and that’s a big plus.
I’m going for AWJ and Itoje with Beard on the bench. I was even tempted by Itoje at blindside but restrained myself from that call.
Back row is a really hard call. Faletau has started to come good and offers a lot of experience. Simmonds offers a lot of the bench.
Curry had a good game against the A side. Watson has been strong throughout. Beirne has had his moments too, or does Gatland move Curry to blindside and go for a mobile back row?
I think that we might see a 6/2 split on the bench, unless Gatland wants VDM on the bench. I suspect Davies plus Farrell the latter covering a lot of positions. Unles he decides to have a punt on Smith on the bench, and take a slight gamble if a Center gets injured.
Aside from the obvious front row replacements, I think we might have Simmonds, Watson and a lock on the bench.
Given the obvious brutality to come, I think Gatland will want to front up to that and keep a strong forward element on the bench. So, I’m going for:
Wyn Jones
George
Furlough
AWJ
Itoje
Beirne
Curry
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Liam Williams
Vunipola
Owens
Sinkler
Beard
Watson
Simmonds
Davies
Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
You are buggered if any outside back is hurt with that bench. Starting XV looks right, though Harris at 13 is a concern tbh- I’d maybe start H Watson tho
p/d wrote:It was great to watch Smith play and play well. Really pleased with his defence, nothing bone rattling just getting the legs. Kicking and distribution good and nailing all conversions.
However he won’t start as a fit Biggar is good for all the above with the added experience of playing at the highest level.
Just chuffed for the lad he got 80mins in a Lions jersey
Sandydragon wrote:Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
The only issue with Smith at XXIII is that both he and Biggar can only really play one position. I mean, Biggar can just about play 15, but would we really want him to other than in extremis? If you're going 6:2, then sadly, you have to have Farrell somewhere in the team.
Still feels like there’s only 4 or 5 spots everyone agrees on. I can’t recall how unanimous the team selections were here on previous tours but it feels particularly hard to predict this time.
Regarding players being picked on past reputation is certainly say Mako falls in there and I’m not convinced Liam Williams is the player he was last time out. Faletau is just about getting it together, and he’s been so good otherwise in the last couple of seasons that I think he has to start.
LCD is an interesting one. With all the talk of taking it to the Bokkes physically I think he is one of the few that offers a considerable step up on his competition in that area, but George/Owens are both class players and can offer a bit of leadership and very good all round games.
Sandydragon wrote:Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
The only issue with Smith at XXIII is that both he and Biggar can only really play one position. I mean, Biggar can just about play 15, but would we really want him to other than in extremis? If you're going 6:2, then sadly, you have to have Farrell somewhere in the team.
Sandydragon wrote:Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
The only issue with Smith at XXIII is that both he and Biggar can only really play one position. I mean, Biggar can just about play 15, but would we really want him to other than in extremis? If you're going 6:2, then sadly, you have to have Farrell somewhere in the team.
Puja
Don’t go 6:2- accident waiting to happen v boks
There's your easy answer, right there.
Hands up anyone who thinks Gatland won't go 6:2 though?
Sandydragon wrote:
Wyn Jones
George
Furlough
AWJ
Itoje
Beirne
Curry
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Liam Williams
Vunipola
Owens
Sinkler
Beard
Watson
Simmonds
Davies
Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
I agree with a lot of that, except:
Not much in it but I'd favour Owens over George.
Start H Watson, bench Curry.
VdM instead of Watson, but not too worried.
Bench would be 5:3, so lose Simmonds, add Daly.
Sandydragon wrote:The number of pundits selecting on past glories is staggering. Both Farrell and Murray have been well below par yet they make test teams. The best half back combination is Price and Biggar. Smith is definitely one for the future.
Our back three is a huge area of contention as no one has been perfect but there have been some great performances. Adams is a fine all round player who finishes well. VDM has been a real star of the tour but does have some weaknesses. High and Liam Williams have both been good. Watson is a quality player.
If all fit I think it will be Adam’s, Williams and Watson. But I wonder if the idea of VDM being involved is just too tempting, even if off the bench.
Harris has surely done enough to get a centre spot and Henshaw would be the other I’d go for. Daly has a great boot and some nice touches but he gets bypassed in defence too often.
The front row I would go for Wyn Jones, George and Furlogh. Replacement double be Mako, Owens and Sinkler.
Second row has to include Itoje. Do we risk AWJ in there so soon back? We need a tour captain who can actually lead and we lacked some leadership against the Bokke A side. Equally the starting locks yesterday both made a strong case. I liked the way Beard took the driving maul away from the Bokke A when he came on and that’s a big plus.
I’m going for AWJ and Itoje with Beard on the bench. I was even tempted by Itoje at blindside but restrained myself from that call.
Back row is a really hard call. Faletau has started to come good and offers a lot of experience. Simmonds offers a lot of the bench.
Curry had a good game against the A side. Watson has been strong throughout. Beirne has had his moments too, or does Gatland move Curry to blindside and go for a mobile back row?
I think that we might see a 6/2 split on the bench, unless Gatland wants VDM on the bench. I suspect Davies plus Farrell the latter covering a lot of positions. Unles he decides to have a punt on Smith on the bench, and take a slight gamble if a Center gets injured.
Aside from the obvious front row replacements, I think we might have Simmonds, Watson and a lock on the bench.
Given the obvious brutality to come, I think Gatland will want to front up to that and keep a strong forward element on the bench. So, I’m going for:
Wyn Jones
George
Furlough
AWJ
Itoje
Beirne
Curry
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Liam Williams
Vunipola
Owens
Sinkler
Beard
Watson
Simmonds
Davies
Smith - why not I’d rather have someone on form than on reputation alone.
You are buggered if any outside back is hurt with that bench. Starting XV looks right, though Harris at 13 is a concern tbh- I’d maybe start H Watson tho
I’m not normally in favour of a 6:2 split. But the reality is that I feel our greatest impact is in our pack with Simmonds and Watson coming on the up the pace.
That leaves the issue of having Farrell to cover the back line which isn’t ideal either.
Arguably you could go for a back row of Watson, Curry and Faletau, with Simmonds off the bench. Then have Davies Smith and eithr VDM or Aki on the bench for some last quarter impact.
I'd go:
Jones/Sutherland -not concerned either way.
George
Furlong
Henderson
Itoje
Beirne
Curry - although this is probably my closest decision.
Faletau (Navidi my bolter for starting XV)
Price
Biggar
Watson
Henshaw
Harris - still the best defender at 13 and Daly missed more than he made yesterday.
Williams
Hogg (c) - I think his kicking could be important. He is also the second best captain squad
LCD
Sutherland/Jones
Sinckler
Beard (I'd want to get another week of hard training in for AWJ before starting test 2*)
Watson (can't make myself leave him out but think he probably will)
Murray
Smith
Daly
*If he is really ready to go then he should start. I'm just not sure he will be yet.
Big D wrote:I think the back 3 can almost be any of the guys without too much arguement.
It’s basically a very tight call and I agree that you could have a number of permutations which are all equally good. Just depends what attributes Gatland and co want.
