RugbyRebels

India and Pakistan live side by side without nuking each other, crazy North Korea hasn't fired one off . . . Israel needs to act like any other country would and live with it. Attacking Iran (and most of its neighbours) is the best way of getting nuked in the long run.

NB we should stop selling weapons to this rogue state. It's the most insanely (and illegally) aggressive nation in the world, by some margin.

The only reason it still exists is because the US wants am ally in the middle east. None of Israel's neighbours want it there and it does nothing to endear itself to them or the wider world.

I'm quite a placid guy and detest war but, with an objective hat on I'm starting to question the notion that 'Israel has a right to exist' when its current government is so keen to destabilise itself and attack absolutely everyone that shares a border bar Jordan, risking full scale war in the process. Missiles are not diplomacy which is obvious to everyone except Netanyahu, Ben-gavir and Smotrich.

Danno wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 5:04 am The only reason it still exists is because the US wants am ally in the middle east. None of Israel's neighbours want it there and it does nothing to endear itself to them or the wider world.

I'm quite a placid guy and detest war but, with an objective hat on I'm starting to question the notion that 'Israel has a right to exist' when its current government is so keen to destabilise itself and attack absolutely everyone that shares a border bar Jordan, risking full scale war in the process. Missiles are not diplomacy which is obvious to everyone except Netanyahu, Ben-gavir and Smotrich.

Unfortunately there are many more who see missiles as diplomacy, in Israel, the US and Europe.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/europ ... el-attack/

It's amazing. Israel currently occupies land taken from all four of its neighbours, albeit Gaza and the West Bank are now considered to be part of the Palestinian State (by most of the world) rather than land stolen from Egypt and Jordan, respectively. It's a Western nation, armed to the teeth, and (unlike most Western nations) using those arms to the full (which is, perhaps not coincidentally, a boon to the US Military-Industrial complex - and similarly to Germany's).

The UK should cut it off from Western life-support until it behaves like a civilised country. Instead (for all our hand-wringing and inconsequential sanctions) we arm it, train its soldiers, give it intelligence and logistical support and would no doubt leap to 'her' defence if it ever looked to be in genuine danger. We support Israel and have taken no credible action to deter it from committing the atrocity of the century.

Oh fuck
Donald Trump says US has attacked three Iranian nuclear sites and ‘totally obliterated’ them

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:26 am Oh fuck
Donald Trump says US has attacked three Iranian nuclear sites and ‘totally obliterated’ them

That will stir up the region even more, not that it needs stirring. A state which funds so many terrorist ground gaining a nuke isn’t a happy thought. But the diplomatic work which might have prevented that outcome was killed off by Trump. And Netanyahu has been claiming Iran is months ways from the bomb since 1995.

The BBC will now never show the film which documents the experiences of medical workers in Gaza. It wouldn't be impartial, apparently. Any excuse to cover up war crimes, it seems to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... y-coverage

Looks like the brief wave of media opinion against Israel may be faltering.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:37 am

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:26 am Oh fuck
Donald Trump says US has attacked three Iranian nuclear sites and ‘totally obliterated’ them

That will stir up the region even more, not that it needs stirring. A state which funds so many terrorist ground gaining a nuke isn’t a happy thought. But the diplomatic work which might have prevented that outcome was killed off by Trump. And Netanyahu has been claiming Iran is months ways from the bomb since 1995.

What will Iran do? Hard to see it doing nothing. On the other hand, there are no rules - Israel and the USA are entirely lawless in their actions - so Iran can expect an open-ended period of death from the sky if they hit back. I would think that Trump won't want to put US troops on the ground but he doesn't need to. Between them, Israel and America can wreck Iran from the air.

In the long run this makes Israel and the US less safe. I expect revenge will come eventually.

(As an aside, I wonder if the UK helped? I expect so - at least allowing the US to fly from UK bases. So, most likely we're in the firing line too.)

Starmer is all over it, Israel is defending itself, kneecap are terrorists etc, while the west bank is being dismantled, settler violence being enabled

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 10:37 am Starmer is all over it, Israel is defending itself, kneecap are terrorists etc, while the west bank is being dismantled, settler violence being enabled

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:56 am

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:37 am

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:26 am Oh fuck
Donald Trump says US has attacked three Iranian nuclear sites and ‘totally obliterated’ them

That will stir up the region even more, not that it needs stirring. A state which funds so many terrorist ground gaining a nuke isn’t a happy thought. But the diplomatic work which might have prevented that outcome was killed off by Trump. And Netanyahu has been claiming Iran is months ways from the bomb since 1995.

What will Iran do? Hard to see it doing nothing. On the other hand, there are no rules - Israel and the USA are entirely lawless in their actions - so Iran can expect an open-ended period of death from the sky if they hit back. I would think that Trump won't want to put US troops on the ground but he doesn't need to. Between them, Israel and America can wreck Iran from the air.

In the long run this makes Israel and the US less safe. I expect revenge will come eventually.

(As an aside, I wonder if the UK helped? I expect so - at least allowing the US to fly from UK bases. So, most likely we're in the firing line too.)

Iran will have to respond asymmetrically. Terrorist attacks at US forces, probably British ones too, in the ME. Maybe small group attacks in UK and US. It can only do so much but it can give us a bunch of stings over the next few years.

I also suspect that oil tankers and other maritime trade in the region will be hit where possible. Bit harder now due to the anti piracy ops underway already but still could hurt.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ler-attack

Ethnic cleansing on your doorstep Europe

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 9:23 pm https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ler-attack

Ethnic cleansing on your doorstep Europe

Unfortunately, Starmer's never going to call it that. Nor will most of the leaders in the EU.

While I think it's almost always wrong to call for violence, and wrong (or at least, very unhelpful) in this case, let's put Bob Vylan's words into context. The chants about the IDF are effectively the same as chanting 'Death to the child-killers' or 'Death to the genociders' or 'Death to the murderous occupying army'.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:37 am

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 9:26 am Oh fuck
Donald Trump says US has attacked three Iranian nuclear sites and ‘totally obliterated’ them

That will stir up the region even more, not that it needs stirring. A state which funds so many terrorist ground gaining a nuke isn’t a happy thought. But the diplomatic work which might have prevented that outcome was killed off by Trump. And Netanyahu has been claiming Iran is months ways from the bomb since 1995.

Unfortunately, the US, Israel, India, and Russia all already have nukes. And they definitely fund plenty of terrorist organisations.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 10:33 am While I think it's almost always wrong to call for violence, and wrong (or at least, very unhelpful) in this case, let's put Bob Vylan's words into context. The chants about the IDF are effectively the same as chanting 'Death to the child-killers' or 'Death to the genociders' or 'Death to the murderous occupying army'.

Frankly, I'd prefer the UK media were slightly more exercised about Israeli soldiers whistleblowing that they're being ordered to fire on unarmed civilians who have come to receive aid, rather than the surely unprecedented event of a punk band protesting injustice.

Also, important to note that "free speech" is vital and must be protected above everything else, when it comes to universities deciding not to platform or employ people with bigoted and inflammatory rules, to the extent that the government will threaten funding. However, free speech is not allowed for criticising Israel.

Good to know.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 7:11 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 10:33 am While I think it's almost always wrong to call for violence, and wrong (or at least, very unhelpful) in this case, let's put Bob Vylan's words into context. The chants about the IDF are effectively the same as chanting 'Death to the child-killers' or 'Death to the genociders' or 'Death to the murderous occupying army'.

Frankly, I'd prefer the UK media were slightly more exercised about Israeli soldiers whistleblowing that they're being ordered to fire on unarmed civilians who have come to receive aid, rather than the surely unprecedented event of a punk band protesting injustice.

Also, important to note that "free speech" is vital and must be protected above everything else, when it comes to universities deciding not to platform or employ people with bigoted and inflammatory rules, to the extent that the government will threaten funding. However, free speech is not allowed for criticising Israel.

Good to know.

Puja

I thought the tide might have been turning but it looks like the supporting-Israel-come-what-may establishment seem intent on talking about something else for as long as this genocide takes.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 11:41 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 7:11 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 10:33 am While I think it's almost always wrong to call for violence, and wrong (or at least, very unhelpful) in this case, let's put Bob Vylan's words into context. The chants about the IDF are effectively the same as chanting 'Death to the child-killers' or 'Death to the genociders' or 'Death to the murderous occupying army'.

Frankly, I'd prefer the UK media were slightly more exercised about Israeli soldiers whistleblowing that they're being ordered to fire on unarmed civilians who have come to receive aid, rather than the surely unprecedented event of a punk band protesting injustice.

Also, important to note that "free speech" is vital and must be protected above everything else, when it comes to universities deciding not to platform or employ people with bigoted and inflammatory rules, to the extent that the government will threaten funding. However, free speech is not allowed for criticising Israel.

Good to know.

Puja

I thought the tide might have been turning but it looks like the supporting-Israel-come-what-may establishment seem intent on talking about something else for as long as this genocide takes.

I think Bibi's pivot into, "We're defending the world against the imminent Iranian nuclear attack and now they're viciously attacking us, completely unprovoked!" has worked like a charm. The media were starting to wonder aloud whether there might be some sort of an upper limit to how many children you are allowed to indiscriminstely murder in recompense for having been the victim of a terrorist attack, but now that they've fought with Iran? Well, the very thought of speaking against Israel now automatically means that you're actively supporting a warmongering, violent state that's dominated by adherence to a single religion, where policy is often led by what God allegedly wants, led by an unpopular regime who bolsters their support by lashing out at their neighbours. By which, I of course mean Iran.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2025 12:38 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 11:41 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Jun 30, 2025 7:11 pm

Frankly, I'd prefer the UK media were slightly more exercised about Israeli soldiers whistleblowing that they're being ordered to fire on unarmed civilians who have come to receive aid, rather than the surely unprecedented event of a punk band protesting injustice.

Also, important to note that "free speech" is vital and must be protected above everything else, when it comes to universities deciding not to platform or employ people with bigoted and inflammatory rules, to the extent that the government will threaten funding. However, free speech is not allowed for criticising Israel.

Good to know.

Puja

I thought the tide might have been turning but it looks like the supporting-Israel-come-what-may establishment seem intent on talking about something else for as long as this genocide takes.

I think Bibi's pivot into, "We're defending the world against the imminent Iranian nuclear attack and now they're viciously attacking us, completely unprovoked!" has worked like a charm. The media were starting to wonder aloud whether there might be some sort of an upper limit to how many children you are allowed to indiscriminstely murder in recompense for having been the victim of a terrorist attack, but now that they've fought with Iran? Well, the very thought of speaking against Israel now automatically means that you're actively supporting a warmongering, violent state that's dominated by adherence to a single religion, where policy is often led by what God allegedly wants, led by an unpopular regime who bolsters their support by lashing

You might have thought that machine-gunning starving people every day might have an impact but no, Starmer is delighted with any distraction (even the PIP debacle has the silver lining of being a distraction) so he doesn't have to answer any questions about why he doesn't give a shit about an ongoing genocide.

There has been practically zero coverage of the haarretz article where the idf confess to murder

I mean what editor is going to publish something anti Israel when admitting murder gets no traction?

The Tony Blair Institute was part of Israeli-led meetings making plans for post war Gaza, including the Trump Riviera.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -gaza-plan

Cambridge University (and it is not alone) takes preemptive legal action against anyone wanting to make protest during graduation ceremonies this year.

This means that anyone who enters the grounds of the Senate House (where the ceremonies take place) with the intention of protesting, and anyone who helps someone do such a thing, can be held in contempt of court, hence face up to 2 years in prison and/or a fine.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/palest ... ts-campus/
https://www.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/fil ... rder_0.pdf

So if you say "Free Palestine"* when getting yout certificate it's not just your degree at risk, it's your freedom.


*or any protest about anything.

How to make coin off lies promoted behind the firewall of public office

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -gaza-plan

What a despicable cunt.

Dystopia.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -netanyahu

The UK fails to match the moral example of Columbia:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-colombia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia% ... _relations