RugbyRebels

I've read 6 and would put The Bridge on the Drina on my list to read as I've done my stomping around Mostar and 'the bridge' in question.

If I'm honest I'd say I think I only finished 6 of those. I 've read a good portion of the Quran and Confucius but certainly not cover to cover, Cien Anos de Soledad was the first novel I ever read in Spanish and I'm not sure how much I took in (the film adaptation brought it all into much clearer focus ), Anne Frank was read to us at school, and I thought 'Tomorrow, when the World Began' was a pretty cheesy 'teen' novel. The Days, Noli Me Tangere and Na Dri Cuprija look particularly interesting, and I'd be curious to know how Iceman finishes, given the fate of Scott and his crew...

Of the countries I've lived in not represented on that list I'd personally recommend:

NZ - Keri Hulme's 'The Bone People.'

Turkey - Yasar Kemal is great but as a one-off read I'd rate Irfan Orga's 'Portrait of a Turkish Family' as the best, chronicling the end of the empire, WWI, and birth of the republic through the eyes of an underprivileged boy/youth.

Spain - Don Quixote (obviously)

Graham Greene The Lawless Roads. In 1938 Greene was commissioned to visit Mexico and write about the state of the country and its people in the aftermath of President Calles' anti-clerical purges. He hated Mexico and the majority of Mexicans he came across ("At Veracruz a fat homosexual porter tried to take my bag, archly"), was scathing of its food ("It is all a hideous red and yellow, green and brown, like art needlework and the sort of cushions popular among decayed gentlewomen in Cotswold teashops") and his arse suffered from too many miles on the back of a mule with stirrups too short for a lanky English sort and the compounding misery of dysentery.

The Lawless Roads offers no romance and no dewey-eyed narrative of life in a tropical paradise, but there is undoubted passion in Greene's travelogue, which served to inspire and inform his literary masterpiece, The Power and the Glory. Greene, a devout and devoted Catholic, went in search of people whose only apparent solace lay in a faith stubbornly held in the face of violent suppression; and he found them.

I would always recommend Greene to those who have not read him; I'll recommend The Lawless Roads to those who have read his fiction but have yet to immerse themselves in his travel writing.

RIP VS Naipaul. Not my favorite writer, tbh. I tried a few and think I only finished Among the Believers - if only for the stopping at the scene of an accident effect. It was really bad, slow, dreary, entirely biased. I know I tried to read a couple of others but for the life of me can't remember which ones, even when I look at the list on google.

I struggled through Naipaul's A Bend in the River during a tour to the DRC in 2010. Like Conrad's Heart of Darkness, the evidence suggests that the setting of Naipaul's Bend in the River is Kisangani. Since most of the UN's flights from Kinshasa routed through Kisangani and it was my lot to cut around the military mission, I spent many hours waiting in the town. Didn't help much.

We can agree on that then. Naipaul was sometimes compared to Conrad but buggered if I could see any resemblance. As mentioned, I haven't read a great deal of the former's work, but what I have seen was mostly travelogue from an autobiographical perspective. The latter's books were pure fiction of the adventure variety, though offering astute insights into human psychology and the effects of the late colonial era.

Bao ninh-the sorrow of war brilliant best Vietnam book I've read


Steinbeck the moon is down excellent little novella on German occupation of a town in Norway

I read this as a break from an absolute turd called a little life by hanya yanagihara, yes absolute cack does get nominated for the Booker prize

paddy no 11 wrote: Steinbeck the moon is down excellent little novella on German occupation of a town in Norway

Steinbeck went through a phase of writing novellas that could be easily adapted to the stage or silver screen, like he thought he was onto a new genre or something, and I think the Moon is Downwas one of them, though it's been so long since I read it I don't call. Some of the dialogue in those novellas was electrifying (notably Burning Bright,but other aspects of the traditional short novel were neglected. He was at the peak of his powers with Of Mice and Men, Tortilla Flats, Cannery Row, the Red Pony & the Pearl, however - all novellas written as short novels in the classical sense.

rowan wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote: Steinbeck the moon is down excellent little novella on German occupation of a town in Norway

Steinbeck went through a phase of writing novellas that could be easily adapted to the stage or silver screen, like he thought he was onto a new genre or something, and I think the Moon is Downwas one of them, though it's been so long since I read it I don't call. Some of the dialogue in those novellas was electrifying (notably Burning Bright,but other aspects of the traditional short novel were neglected. He was at the peak of his powers with Of Mice and Men, Tortilla Flats, Cannery Row, the Red Pony & the Pearl, however - all novellas written as short novels in the classical sense.

The Red Pony was one of his weaker novels I thought, the Cannery Row trilogy of novels are very entertaining but I think my favourite of all his books is probably East of Eden which is imo a masterpiece.

Don't bother with The Log from the Sea of Cortez, it gives you some insight into the character of Doc to a small extent, based on a man called Ed Rickett's iirc, the majority of the book however is about the marine research they were undertaking which is now very dated and not particularly interesting.

Numbers wrote:

rowan wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote: Steinbeck the moon is down excellent little novella on German occupation of a town in Norway

Steinbeck went through a phase of writing novellas that could be easily adapted to the stage or silver screen, like he thought he was onto a new genre or something, and I think the Moon is Downwas one of them, though it's been so long since I read it I don't call. Some of the dialogue in those novellas was electrifying (notably Burning Bright,but other aspects of the traditional short novel were neglected. He was at the peak of his powers with Of Mice and Men, Tortilla Flats, Cannery Row, the Red Pony & the Pearl, however - all novellas written as short novels in the classical sense.

The Red Pony was one of his weaker novels I thought, the Cannery Row trilogy of novels are very entertaining but I think my favourite of all his books is probably East of Eden which is imo a masterpiece.

Don't bother with The Log from the Sea of Cortez, it gives you some insight into the character of Doc to a small extent, based on a man called Ed Rickett's iirc, the majority of the book however is about the marine research they were undertaking which is now very dated and not particularly interesting.

Largely agree, though I seem to recall The Red Pony including some fairly profound psychology, but it's a long time since I did all my Steinbeck reading. The biggest novels were definitely the best - Grapes of Wrath, East of Eden, in Dubious Battle and To a God Unknown being my personal favorites. The obvious exception would be Of Mice and Men, which was pure genius. Can't remember the third novella in the Tortilla-Cannery trilogy, but I do remember there was one I didn't like much at all. The character of Doc got a little tedious after a while too. I think I had the same ideas as you about the Sea of Cortez, which failed to deliver on such a promising title.

Sweet Thursday is the other in trilogy

Winter of our discontent is another great read

rowan wrote:

Numbers wrote:

rowan wrote:
Steinbeck went through a phase of writing novellas that could be easily adapted to the stage or silver screen, like he thought he was onto a new genre or something, and I think the Moon is Downwas one of them, though it's been so long since I read it I don't call. Some of the dialogue in those novellas was electrifying (notably Burning Bright,but other aspects of the traditional short novel were neglected. He was at the peak of his powers with Of Mice and Men, Tortilla Flats, Cannery Row, the Red Pony & the Pearl, however - all novellas written as short novels in the classical sense.

The Red Pony was one of his weaker novels I thought, the Cannery Row trilogy of novels are very entertaining but I think my favourite of all his books is probably East of Eden which is imo a masterpiece.

Don't bother with The Log from the Sea of Cortez, it gives you some insight into the character of Doc to a small extent, based on a man called Ed Rickett's iirc, the majority of the book however is about the marine research they were undertaking which is now very dated and not particularly interesting.

Largely agree, though I seem to recall The Red Pony including some fairly profound psychology, but it's a long time since I did all my Steinbeck reading. The biggest novels were definitely the best - Grapes of Wrath, East of Eden, in Dubious Battle and To a God Unknown being my personal favorites. The obvious exception would be Of Mice and Men, which was pure genius. Can't remember the third novella in the Tortilla-Cannery trilogy, but I do remember there was one I didn't like much at all. The character of Doc got a little tedious after a while too. I think I had the same ideas as you about the Sea of Cortez, which failed to deliver on such a promising title.

I'm probably being a bit harsh, tho I am judging him by his own stratospheric standards, he is my favourite author.

We'll have to do a definite rug*y rebels list and sticky the fucker

East of Eden
Of mice and men
Cannery row
Grapes of wrath
Pastures of heaven
Sweet Thursday
Travels with charley
The pearl
The moon is down
In dubious battle
Tortilla flat

Add and amend away there

Top 10, In order of preference (I know, I've probably done something like this in a different order, but . . . )

1 East of Eden
2 Grapes of Wrath
3 Mice & Men
4 In Dubious Battle
5 To a God Unknown
6 Tortilla Flats
7 The Pearl
8 Red Pony
9 Cannery Row
10 Cup of Gold

NB: Sweet Thursday was the 3rd book in the Tortilla-Cannery trilogy, and was one of the several Steinbeck novel/novelllas I did not enjoy.

Could be an interesting rugby read: https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/04/12/w ... ach-other/

paddy no 11 wrote:We'll have to do a definite rug*y rebels list and sticky the fucker

East of Eden
Of mice and men
Cannery row
Grapes of wrath
Pastures of heaven
Sweet Thursday
Travels with charley
The pearl
The moon is down
In dubious battle
Tortilla flat

Add and amend away there

Check out the Melvyn Bragg docco from BBC4 a few years back, it's very good:

Numbers wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:We'll have to do a definite rug*y rebels list and sticky the fucker

East of Eden
Of mice and men
Cannery row
Grapes of wrath
Pastures of heaven
Sweet Thursday
Travels with charley
The pearl
The moon is down
In dubious battle
Tortilla flat

Add and amend away there

Check out the Melvyn Bragg docco from BBC4 a few years back, it's very good:

Enjoyed that. Brought back a lot and learnt a few things too. Thanks for sharing

The aforementioned a little life - a steaming turd of a book

Moneyball - Michael Lewis

Great read, some good characters and insightful recommend it to anyone 4/5

"A Line in the Sand", by James Barr.

in 1916, an Englishman, Mark Sykes and a Frenchman, François Georges-Picot were appointed by their respective governments to carve up the Ottoman Empire between Britain and France
This book charts the Anglo-French rivalry to gain the upper hand in the Middle East between 1915 and 1948. A fascinating account of "allies" at war with each other, double dealing with no holds barred.
Many of us are aware of this Middle Eastern conflict between Britain and France, but I think that few of us - certainly me, had no idea whatsoever of the lengths the two adversaries went to advance their imperial objectives. Much of it makes shocking reading.

I quote a passage from the end of the book. A quote of Sir John Shaw who was the former Chief Secretary of Palestine who was asked to assess Britain's record in their Middle Eastern mandate:
"In many cases we thought we were doing good to the people concerned, and indeed we were", he said. "I mean we stamped out all sports of abuses and malpractices, but if you look at it from a purely philosophical and high-minded point of view, I think it's immoral, and i think it's not only immoral, but it's ill-advised." "Why?", the question was asked. "Why? Well...because it's not your business or my business, or British business or anybody else to interfere in other people's countries and tell them how to run it, even to run it well. They must be left to their own salvation."

The problems in Palestine/Israel today are firmly rooted in the British government's foreign policy at that time in the Middle East along with France's appalling decision to heavily finance Zionist terrorists to destabilise British rule in Palestine and to actively encourage the mass migration of Jews to Palestine.

francoisfou wrote:"A Line in the Sand", by James Barr.

in 1916, an Englishman, Mark Sykes and a Frenchman, François Georges-Picot were appointed by their respective governments to carve up the Ottoman Empire between Britain and France
This book charts the Anglo-French rivalry to gain the upper hand in the Middle East between 1915 and 1948. A fascinating account of "allies" at war with each other, double dealing with no holds barred.
Many of us are aware of this Middle Eastern conflict between Britain and France, but I think that few of us - certainly me, had no idea whatsoever of the lengths the two adversaries went to advance their imperial objectives. Much of it makes shocking reading.

I quote a passage from the end of the book. A quote of Sir John Shaw who was the former Chief Secretary of Palestine who was asked to assess Britain's record in their Middle Eastern mandate:
"In many cases we thought we were doing good to the people concerned, and indeed we were", he said. "I mean we stamped out all sports of abuses and malpractices, but if you look at it from a purely philosophical and high-minded point of view, I think it's immoral, and i think it's not only immoral, but it's ill-advised." "Why?", the question was asked. "Why? Well...because it's not your business or my business, or British business or anybody else to interfere in other people's countries and tell them how to run it, even to run it well. They must be left to their own salvation."

The problems in Palestine/Israel today are firmly rooted in the British government's foreign policy at that time in the Middle East along with France's appalling decision to heavily finance Zionist terrorists to destabilise British rule in Palestine and to actively encourage the mass migration of Jews to Palestine.

Sounds like a good and entirely depressing read francie

paddy no 11 wrote:

francoisfou wrote:"A Line in the Sand", by James Barr.

in 1916, an Englishman, Mark Sykes and a Frenchman, François Georges-Picot were appointed by their respective governments to carve up the Ottoman Empire between Britain and France
This book charts the Anglo-French rivalry to gain the upper hand in the Middle East between 1915 and 1948. A fascinating account of "allies" at war with each other, double dealing with no holds barred.
Many of us are aware of this Middle Eastern conflict between Britain and France, but I think that few of us - certainly me, had no idea whatsoever of the lengths the two adversaries went to advance their imperial objectives. Much of it makes shocking reading.

I quote a passage from the end of the book. A quote of Sir John Shaw who was the former Chief Secretary of Palestine who was asked to assess Britain's record in their Middle Eastern mandate:
"In many cases we thought we were doing good to the people concerned, and indeed we were", he said. "I mean we stamped out all sports of abuses and malpractices, but if you look at it from a purely philosophical and high-minded point of view, I think it's immoral, and i think it's not only immoral, but it's ill-advised." "Why?", the question was asked. "Why? Well...because it's not your business or my business, or British business or anybody else to interfere in other people's countries and tell them how to run it, even to run it well. They must be left to their own salvation."

The problems in Palestine/Israel today are firmly rooted in the British government's foreign policy at that time in the Middle East along with France's appalling decision to heavily finance Zionist terrorists to destabilise British rule in Palestine and to actively encourage the mass migration of Jews to Palestine.

Sounds like a good and entirely depressing read francie

Aye, Paddy. Clinging on to the wreckage of dwindling Empires doesn't exactly bring a smile to your face, but nonetheless, it's a book that's hard to put down.

I read A Line in the Sand while on tour in the Congo and followed it up with Issiah Freedman's Palestine: A Twice Promised Land, which points a far more accusatory finger at Balfour and his 'declaration' to Rothschild in 1926 and suggests that it was this, rather than the British and French carve up that fomented the problems in the middle east.

SerjeantWildgoose wrote:I read A Line in the Sand while on tour in the Congo and followed it up with Issiah Freedman's Palestine: A Twice Promised Land, which points a far more accusatory finger at Balfour and his 'declaration' to Rothschild in 1926 and suggests that it was this, rather than the British and French carve up that fomented the problems in the middle east.

Undoubtedly, but the British and French did more than add fuel to the fire in the later years of their quest for a greater influence in the Middle East.