RugbyRebels

Stom wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Looks more like a training squad. I hope, anyway.

Yeah...thank feck.

That is a really crap squad. Just so full of not good enough and not yet good enough. I don't see the point.

Why are Ashton, Haskell, Rhodes and Stooke there? Are they really good enough? And what about Earle, Ibitoye, Olowofela, Kpoku...

I mean, how many locks does he need! There are 7! 7! Actually...

LHP: 3
Hooker: 4
THP: 3
Lock: 7!
Flanker: 6
8: 2
9: 3
FH: 4
12: 2
13: 2
wing: 6
FB: 2

That's just not balanced. The one area we actually look settled and we have 7 players. Yet we have just 2 8s, 3 SHs, 4 centres and 2 FBs and one of those is really a wing!

Lock cover two positions you know right?
Eddie has got 3 sets of tight 5 forwards and a spare lock and hooker.
1. Vunipola, 2. George, 3. Sinckler
4. Launcbury, 5. Itoje

1. Marler, 2. Hartley, 3. Williams
4. Lawes, 5. Isiekwe

1. Hepburn, 2. Cowan-dickie, 3. Hill
4. Spencer, 5. Stooke

spare:singleton and Kpoku
It's really isn't a surprise is it.

All seems a bit wibble to be worrying about players in a training squad when we have no defence or attack coach to actually train them.

Mellsblue wrote:It’s only a training squad. Remember the nashing of teeth last year when Joseph was ‘dropped’ only for him to reappear in the squad for the AI’s.

I really don’t see that as the same. As others have said, the balance is all over the place.

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:Give up with these squads - if it is only training, how is there no Trinder no Woodward and 7 quins players in it?

Breakdown by club including injured/unselectable players:-

Sarries 13
Tigers 8
Quins 7
Barf/ Exeter 6
Wasps / Saints 5
Sale 3
Wuss 2
Newcs/ Glos 1

Because Trinder was only in the last one because Marchant wasn’t and then shat the bed defensively. Woodward obviously didn’t impress in SA but being replaced by Ashton is chronic depression territory.

Except Trinder was better than Marchant for the entirety of last season. Of course Eddie can be whimisical on the back of a bad 15 minute performance but others seem to get away with that.

Not suggesting there SHOULD be any other Glos players in the squad (if I had I would have mentioned them) but looking at that squad some inclusions are unlikely to offer anything come WC and there are better options elsewhere, not just at Glos.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:It’s only a training squad. Remember the nashing of teeth last year when Joseph was ‘dropped’ only for him to reappear in the squad for the AI’s.

I really don’t see that as the same. As others have said, the balance is all over the place.

It’s a training squad. Most of it will be judo followed by a body count. Given the only coaches we have are forwards coaches and our driving maul is hopeless....

Gloskarlos wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:Give up with these squads - if it is only training, how is there no Trinder no Woodward and 7 quins players in it?

Breakdown by club including injured/unselectable players:-

Sarries 13
Tigers 8
Quins 7
Barf/ Exeter 6
Wasps / Saints 5
Sale 3
Wuss 2
Newcs/ Glos 1

Because Trinder was only in the last one because Marchant wasn’t and then shat the bed defensively. Woodward obviously didn’t impress in SA but being replaced by Ashton is chronic depression territory.

Except Trinder was better than Marchant for the entirety of last season. Of course Eddie can be whimisical on the back of a bad 15 minute performance but others seem to get away with that.

Not suggesting there SHOULD be any other Glos players in the squad (if I had I would have mentioned them) but looking at that squad some inclusions are unlikely to offer anything come WC and there are better options elsewhere, not just at Glos.

I’m a big fan of Trinder but Marchant has been constantly picked ahead - not saying whether that is right or wrong, they are both fine players - and there has to question marks over his ability to stat fit.....and then he shat the bed against the BaaBaas. All in all, Marchant over Trinder isn’t a supris, IMO.

Credit to Tig.s:
1. Hepburn, Marler Vunipola,
2. Cowan-Dickie, George, Hartley, Singleton,
3. Hill, Sinckler, Williams
4. Launchbury, Spencer, Kpoku
5. Lawes, Itoje, Isiekwe, Stooke
6. Robshaw, Rhodes, Wilson
7. Curry, Haskell, Underhill,
8. Hughes, Simmonds

9. Robson, Spencer, Youngs
10. Cipriani, Farrell, Ford
11. May, Ibitoye, Olowofela
12. Francis, Slade, Te'o
13. Daly, Marchant
14. Cokanasiga, Earle,
15. Ashton, Brown

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Because Trinder was only in the last one because Marchant wasn’t and then shat the bed defensively. Woodward obviously didn’t impress in SA but being replaced by Ashton is chronic depression territory.

Except Trinder was better than Marchant for the entirety of last season. Of course Eddie can be whimisical on the back of a bad 15 minute performance but others seem to get away with that.

Not suggesting there SHOULD be any other Glos players in the squad (if I had I would have mentioned them) but looking at that squad some inclusions are unlikely to offer anything come WC and there are better options elsewhere, not just at Glos.

I’m a big fan of Trinder but Marchant has been constantly picked ahead - not saying whether that is right or wrong, they are both fine players - and there has to question marks over his ability to stat fit.....and then he shat the bed against the BaaBaas. All in all, Marchant over Trinder isn’t a supris, IMO.

Each to their own - Trinder appears in a couple of prem teams of the season, Marchant does not. Marchant is class, I rate him, but in THAT squad they could have BOTH been picked with no issues regardless of who you favour. It wouldn't have been controversial had Eddie done so.

Being argumentative - I'm surprised by Stooke, Olowofela, Kpoku, Ibitoye, Cokanasiga, and Francis. All either inexperienced at prem level and below International standard for me right now. Arguably Cokanasiga and Francis aren't AP standard yet. Ibitoye does look the real deal, I can understand wanting to have a closer look at him, but also very early days given the lack of Prem appearances. I doubt any of these will be near the squad come WC.

How often did Trinder play 13? Marchant is also a lot younger, and without Trinders history of being constantly broken.

Stooke looks like exactly the sort of lock I'd want in a training squad, huge, powerful, stick him in scrummaging training against the locks I actually want to use.

It's like whack a mole when it comes to non English players who can't get picked by their own country

Diggers, take a seat, old boy. I’ve some terrible news:

Gloskarlos wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:
Except Trinder was better than Marchant for the entirety of last season. Of course Eddie can be whimisical on the back of a bad 15 minute performance but others seem to get away with that.

Not suggesting there SHOULD be any other Glos players in the squad (if I had I would have mentioned them) but looking at that squad some inclusions are unlikely to offer anything come WC and there are better options elsewhere, not just at Glos.

I’m a big fan of Trinder but Marchant has been constantly picked ahead - not saying whether that is right or wrong, they are both fine players - and there has to question marks over his ability to stat fit.....and then he shat the bed against the BaaBaas. All in all, Marchant over Trinder isn’t a supris, IMO.

Each to their own - Trinder appears in a couple of prem teams of the season, Marchant does not. Marchant is class, I rate him, but in THAT squad they could have BOTH been picked with no issues regardless of who you favour. It wouldn't have been controversial had Eddie done so.

Being argumentative - I'm surprised by Stooke, Olowofela, Kpoku, Ibitoye, Cokanasiga, and Francis. All either inexperienced at prem level and below International standard for me right now. Arguably Cokanasiga and Francis aren't AP standard yet. Ibitoye does look the real deal, I can understand wanting to have a closer look at him, but also very early days given the lack of Prem appearances. I doubt any of these will be near the squad come WC.

Ibitoye has bags of potential but I am a little worried he could become Wade MkII on account of him being less than 6 foot +.

Marchant is the real deal as far as I’m concerned. Invariably he’s one of our best players when he plays.

“This is a pre-season camp so a lot of our players, particularly the ones who went on the South African tour, have just started training with their clubs so it’s just a chance to get a group of players together to have a chat about the season ahead and look at the important areas in developing the team," said Jones.

"With just over 12 months until the Rugby World Cup, it is an important time.

"We haven’t selected everyone. There are a number of players we rested from the tour that we have allowed to continue their pre-season with their clubs.

"This camp is all about individual preparation, it’s about looking to see how we can help each of the players improve, how we can help with their selection for the national team, because we have 44 players coming in plus another 15 who are strongly in contention for the Quilter Internationals in November."

Jones added: “We have one day of training at this camp, a September camp, then a week before the South Africa game so every minute counts. We want to make sure we use every minute as productively as we can so that is the target."

England’s next training camp will be Sunday 23 September until Wednesday 25 September in Bristol before joining up on 24 October to prepare for the Quilter Internationals in November.

Not considered for selection due to injury/ fitness/ other: Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Danny Care (Harlequins) Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), George Kruis (Saracens), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Brad Shields (Wasps), Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens).

Why is Eddie picking players who have either absolutely none or very little chance of appearing at the WC?
Surely now is the time he needs to be focusing on a core group of players who can go through to next Autumn. Is there any point in having a look at Stooke, Kpoku, Ibitoye or Olowofela?
Why is he persisting with Francis, Earle, Lozowski, Robson when they barely featured in SA?
Also is Singleton really better than Taylor or Dunn?
And where is Marcus Smith?
Sometimes these squads raise more issues than they appear to answer.

Another mindless bollocks squad, while Christian Wade still doesn't get a look in.

Mellsblue wrote:Diggers, take a seat, old boy. I’ve some terrible news:

he isn't even a nailed on starter for Chiefs.

The one bit of good news is that Lawes is fit again apparently.

Tigersman wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Diggers, take a seat, old boy. I’ve some terrible news:

he isn't even a nailed on starter for Chiefs.

12 (non-LV) starts in the last 2 seasons, covering 2 clubs...
There comes a point when you just have to think "maybe these 3 professional rugby coaches might be better at spotting talent than I"

Which Tyler wrote:

Tigersman wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Diggers, take a seat, old boy. I’ve some terrible news:

he isn't even a nailed on starter for Chiefs.

12 (non-LV) starts in the last 2 seasons, covering 2 clubs...
There comes a point when you just have to think "maybe these 3 professional rugby coaches might be better at spotting talent than I"

Seems a strange article/headline. If it’s come as a suprise that he’s not in Jones’s thoughts, then they need to write a similar article for at least 30 other players.

Mellsblue wrote:Diggers, take a seat, old boy. I’ve some terrible news:

I'm less fussed with the emergence of Curry, although that English rugby is much happier with a Rhodes than Kvesic is an ongoing problem. And faced with the prospect of an innovative Eddie Jones it's a shame he's instead channeled his inner Jack Rowell

Mellsblue wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Tigersman wrote:
he isn't even a nailed on starter for Chiefs.

12 (non-LV) starts in the last 2 seasons, covering 2 clubs...
There comes a point when you just have to think "maybe these 3 professional rugby coaches might be better at spotting talent than I"

Seems a strange article/headline. If it’s come as a suprise that he’s not in Jones’s thoughts, then they need to write a similar article for at least 30 other players.

Maybe he's taking a leaf out of Tom Wood's book and reluctantly putting himself forward for consideration in the empty England 7 shirt?

Mellsblue wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Tigersman wrote:
he isn't even a nailed on starter for Chiefs.

12 (non-LV) starts in the last 2 seasons, covering 2 clubs...
There comes a point when you just have to think "maybe these 3 professional rugby coaches might be better at spotting talent than I"

Seems a strange article/headline. If it’s come as a suprise that he’s not in Jones’s thoughts, then they need to write a similar article for at least 30 other players.

Next Week
Jordan Crane says he reckons his England dreams will not happen whilst Eddie Jones is still in charge.

Two points to this stand out, that Kvesic isn't what Eddie wants even were he playing more, and that we're on a losing run so articles will shift to focus more on those being over looked

Bigger picture it's frustrating to have watched so much dross at 7 for more than a decade now and scarce even looked at Kvesic, but we do have some young prospects emerging and it's easy to ignore a player not playing

Sounds like Eddie is according to the media wanting a coaching setup of
Head Coach - Eddie
Forwards Coach - Borthwick
Defence Coach - Mitchell
Attack Coach - wisemantel
Scrum Coach - Hatley

Mitchell as in John Mitchell?! Really?


In tangential news, Manu's apparently being held back from the first game or two of the season as Tugers are working on injury prevention, including a pre-emptive operation on his knee of the summer and "getting some more volume into his lower half". All bets say that he breaks his wrist in a freak injury after playing 4 games.

Puja

Puja wrote:Mitchell as in John Mitchell?! Really?


In tangential news, Manu's apparently being held back from the first game or two of the season as Tugers are working on injury prevention, including a pre-emptive operation on his knee of the summer and "getting some more volume into his lower half". All bets say that he breaks his wrist in a freak injury after playing 4 games.

Puja

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... e-englands