Cricket fred

[Banquo]

Brilliant run out from stokes

[Galfon]

Eng. are in the lead at the end of 3 !
Showing a bit more fight this time around, mind you Bumrah looking to shake it up a bit..

[Banquo]

How is pant allowed to bat, but is subbed as a keeper. Bit rich the Indians complaining about time wasting tbh

[Banquo]

Great game

[Banquo]

Great from Stokes, what a leader. Wonder if he can play 12.

[Donny osmond]

Just when you hope that Bazball is about to be out to bed, along comes a game like that...

[Banquo]

Just when you hope that Bazball is about to be out to bed, along comes a game like that...

Bazball is awesome. What's the issue? Its only about always trying to win, and playing in the way that makes that more likely; so happens that we have a generation of attacking cricketers. Games like this happen a lot more thanks to that approach.

Also liked that our players all were sympathetic with Siraj, who had been doling out a load of sledging, chat and aggression....fair fks

[fivepointer]

A great test match. Ebb and flow, nip and tuck, some great individual efforts and a touch of aggro. India got a lot closer than i thought they would at lunch.

Frankly when you get a game like that it makes the one day stuff seem utterly irrelevant.

[Banquo]

A great test match. Ebb and flow, nip and tuck, some great individual efforts and a touch of aggro. India got a lot closer than i thought they would at lunch.

Frankly when you get a game like that it makes the one day stuff seem utterly irrelevant.

I thought Jadeja might actually belt Bumrah for getting out to a pull, having told him to stop a few times.

[Puja]

Just when you hope that Bazball is about to be out to bed, along comes a game like that...

Lots of comments on the BBC saying "Bazball is dead and buried!" after our second innings, while ignoring that a defensive-minded England team might've struggled to get a bare hundred from blocking until the ball that had their name on it took them out, while Bazball allowed them the latitude to get their licks in and put pressure on the bowling side. It's not perfect, and does result in things like Brook's demise sweeping, but it's a solid tactic and has the habit of winning us games.

Puja

[Galfon]

There's been been too many great games, 5-day crackers and let's face it, won matches since bazball for it to be binned.
Stokes is a generational leader too.
Liked the bowling mix today - great effort.

[Donny osmond]

Mm-hmm and when, in a couple of months time, England are getting humiliated - again - by Australia in games they have the talent to win but not the mindset, is Bazball still going to be ok?

I get, and love (who doesnt), the entertainment value, but i also can't help but feel that England's ceiling is lower with Bazball than it otherwise might be.

[Puja]

Mm-hmm and when, in a couple of months time, England are getting humiliated - again - by Australia in games they have the talent to win but not the mindset, is Bazball still going to be ok?

I get, and love (who doesnt), the entertainment value, but i also can't help but feel that England's ceiling is lower with Bazball than it otherwise might be.

Why do you think our ceiling would be higher without playing McCullum's gameplan?

Also, I disagree about "having the talent" - our bowling attack is still woefully underpowered.

Puja

[Galfon]

It's a while since Eng. have put on a decent show down-under.
Oz have just romped home 3 -0 in the Carribean, bowling WI out for just 27 in their 2nd. inns:

Australia pace bowler Mitchell Starc, playing in his 100th Test, took 6-9 in figures that included five wickets in 15 balls.

It is the fastest five-wicket haul in Test cricket and also took Starc passed the 400 wicket mark in the longer form of the game.

<beeb>

Can't argue with that.

[Donny osmond]

Mm-hmm and when, in a couple of months time, England are getting humiliated - again - by Australia in games they have the talent to win but not the mindset, is Bazball still going to be ok?

I get, and love (who doesnt), the entertainment value, but i also can't help but feel that England's ceiling is lower with Bazball than it otherwise might be.

Why do you think our ceiling would be higher without playing McCullum's gameplan?

Also, I disagree about "having the talent" - our bowling attack is still woefully underpowered.

Puja

Its the inconsistency that grinds my gears. This is, in fairness, only my perception and I might well be a mile wide of the mark but I can't help but feel a little more focus on consistency and less focus on going for the big hit would raise England's batting. As for bowling, well youre right, we don't seem to have enough genuine top class bowlers, but again not being a Cummings isn't a reason for spraying balls all over the place looking for that miracle ball. How hard is it to get decent line and length regularly, especially when that's your job?

[Puja]

Mm-hmm and when, in a couple of months time, England are getting humiliated - again - by Australia in games they have the talent to win but not the mindset, is Bazball still going to be ok?

I get, and love (who doesnt), the entertainment value, but i also can't help but feel that England's ceiling is lower with Bazball than it otherwise might be.

Why do you think our ceiling would be higher without playing McCullum's gameplan?

Also, I disagree about "having the talent" - our bowling attack is still woefully underpowered.

Puja

Its the inconsistency that grinds my gears. This is, in fairness, only my perception and I might well be a mile wide of the mark but I can't help but feel a little more focus on consistency and less focus on going for the big hit would raise England's batting. As for bowling, well youre right, we don't seem to have enough genuine top class bowlers, but again not being a Cummings isn't a reason for spraying balls all over the place looking for that miracle ball. How hard is it to get decent line and length regularly, especially when that's your job?

Pretty hard to be precise enough to trouble the absolute best, I'd've said. That's why Glenn McGrath was one of the best bowlers ever to play the game and nobody else has been able to replicate it.

I think that's the crux of the strategy discussion, really. We haven't got good enough bowlers at present and it does lead to us conceding too many runs trying to force wickets, but then it does also result in us getting wickets. The question is whether we concede more by spraying it about, than we would do by trying to maintain tight line and length to the best of these bowlers' abilities, putting no pressure on the batsmen, and letting them spend two days grinding us into the dirt? I don't think there's a significant difference and, at least this way, we don't spend as long getting demoralised and tired in the field and give the batsmen a chance to rescue us again.

Puja

[Stom]

Yeah, I think you're not taking into account just how poor this bowling attack is. It's...not good.

Stokes makes things happen, he's great. It was Archer's first test for ages and he was the best bowler. The others? Just not good enough, imo.

And that's the crux. Without good bowlers, what can we do? Luckily Atkinson is fit - he's not incredible, but he's a step up - and Wood is meant to be due back.

[Banquo]

Mm-hmm and when, in a couple of months time, England are getting humiliated - again - by Australia in games they have the talent to win but not the mindset, is Bazball still going to be ok?

I get, and love (who doesnt), the entertainment value, but i also can't help but feel that England's ceiling is lower with Bazball than it otherwise might be.

I couldn't disagree more. Our attack isn't so good, and we don't have batsmen especially well suited to blocking (you could argue we haven't looked at others but remember Sibley, Burns, etc etc). I think an all round ordinary side with two world class players is generally doing what it can. And its fun.
Now, if Wood and Archer and Atkinson can stay fit, Bashir develop rapidly, and we find an opener to replace Crawley and a number 3, you then have more options game plan wise.

Also, Bazball is about trying to win using the tools available, not just ramps and sweeps (and BTW we used to see England sides with obdurate batters regularly lose wickets sweeping as the only attacking shot). I'd also say our bowling in the second innings was pretty smart, not all out attack.

PS the other element of McCallum and Stokes- bazball - is getting talent like Smith, Bashir et al into the side based on raw talent and cut of job. Lots of muttering about Smith especially. Back talent=Bazball.

Oz just might be vulnerable, all their top guys are in their thirties, but at their best, that's as good an attack as has been fielded in the last 10 years if not longer, by anyone. Smith seems on a slight decline, but he's a bu55er against us. But we'd need our very best attack to be even competitive.

[Donny osmond]

I'm clearly swimming against the tide - seems to be my lot in life these days THESE DAYS - and you've all made fair points. I'll just sit in the corner grumbling about consistency but secretly enjoying the drama.

[Banquo]

I'm clearly swimming against the tide - seems to be my lot in life these days THESE DAYS - and you've all made fair points. I'll just sit in the corner grumbling about consistency but secretly enjoying the drama.

Consistency of results? Performances? Reality is.....1- Crawley very average opener should be batting 6, 2- Duckett good opener, 4 bad knocks but still good, 3- Pope - defines inconsistency and again batting 2 places too high, 4- Root- world class and consistent, 5- Brook- high quality, still learning, 6- Stokes- all rounders always have ups and downs in one discipline...but what a leader, 7 Jamie Smith- excellent frankly, 8- Woakes- seems past it to me, 9- Carse- dangerous sometimes, but inconsistent 10- Archer- we all know, but short bursts only at best 11- Bashir, steep learning curve.

So its quite a bitty team, held together by a couple of worldies...basically, Root fails and its difficult . From a bowling POV, fitness and depth and spin or x factor are the problems.

Being a saddo- we have 4 batsmen in the top 20 in the rankings, india have three (but jadeja and rahul have come spectacularly good since last done), australia also have 4; we have 1 bowler in the top 20 (Gus Atkinson, not playing), India have 2 (with Siraj just outside), and australia...5! Jadeja is top of the all rounders (very underrated), with Cummins above Stokes!! Pant is a phenomenal wk/batsmen, but Smith is close to that level already imo, and Carey is 18th ranked batsmen. Draw your own conclusions

[Donny osmond]

I'm clearly swimming against the tide - seems to be my lot in life these days THESE DAYS - and you've all made fair points. I'll just sit in the corner grumbling about consistency but secretly enjoying the drama.

Consistency of results? Performances? Reality is.....1- Crawley very average opener should be batting 6, 2- Duckett good opener, 4 bad knocks but still good, 3- Pope - defines inconsistency and again batting 2 places too high, 4- Root- world class and consistent, 5- Brook- high quality, still learning, 6- Stokes- all rounders always have ups and downs in one discipline...but what a leader, 7 Jamie Smith- excellent frankly, 8- Woakes- seems past it to me, 9- Carse- dangerous sometimes, but inconsistent 10- Archer- we all know, but short bursts only at best 11- Bashir, steep learning curve.

So its quite a bitty team, held together by a couple of worldies...basically, Root fails and its difficult . From a bowling POV, fitness and depth and spin or x factor are the problems.

Being a saddo- we have 4 batsmen in the top 20 in the rankings, india have three (but jadeja and rahul have come spectacularly good since last done), australia also have 4; we have 1 bowler in the top 20 (Gus Atkinson, not playing), India have 2 (with Siraj just outside), and australia...5! Jadeja is top of the all rounders (very underrated), with Cummins above Stokes!! Pant is a phenomenal wk/batsmen, but Smith is close to that level already imo, and Carey is 18th ranked batsmen. Draw your own conclusions

my main conclusion is you watch too much cricket

[Banquo]

I'm clearly swimming against the tide - seems to be my lot in life these days THESE DAYS - and you've all made fair points. I'll just sit in the corner grumbling about consistency but secretly enjoying the drama.

Consistency of results? Performances? Reality is.....1- Crawley very average opener should be batting 6, 2- Duckett good opener, 4 bad knocks but still good, 3- Pope - defines inconsistency and again batting 2 places too high, 4- Root- world class and consistent, 5- Brook- high quality, still learning, 6- Stokes- all rounders always have ups and downs in one discipline...but what a leader, 7 Jamie Smith- excellent frankly, 8- Woakes- seems past it to me, 9- Carse- dangerous sometimes, but inconsistent 10- Archer- we all know, but short bursts only at best 11- Bashir, steep learning curve.

So its quite a bitty team, held together by a couple of worldies...basically, Root fails and its difficult . From a bowling POV, fitness and depth and spin or x factor are the problems.

Being a saddo- we have 4 batsmen in the top 20 in the rankings, india have three (but jadeja and rahul have come spectacularly good since last done), australia also have 4; we have 1 bowler in the top 20 (Gus Atkinson, not playing), India have 2 (with Siraj just outside), and australia...5! Jadeja is top of the all rounders (very underrated), with Cummins above Stokes!! Pant is a phenomenal wk/batsmen, but Smith is close to that level already imo, and Carey is 18th ranked batsmen. Draw your own conclusions

my main conclusion is you watch too much cricket

No such thing....love test cricket

[Which Tyler]

my main conclusion is you watch too much cricket

A retired boomer with too much time and money on his hands... What else is he going to do? Just surprised he's not golfing!
(Sorry Banquo, just kidding)

[Banquo]

my main conclusion is you watch too much cricket

A retired boomer with too much time and money on his hands... What else is he going to do? Just surprised he's not golfing!
(Sorry Banquo, just kidding)

I do that too. As well as all the rugby volunteering and trickling down
Sounding a bit jealous there WT.

[Which Tyler]

my main conclusion is you watch too much cricket

A retired boomer with too much time and money on his hands... What else is he going to do? Just surprised he's not golfing!
(Sorry Banquo, just kidding)

I do that too. As well as all the rugby volunteering and trickling down
Sounding a bit jealous there WT.

Oh, Absolutely jealous.
I'm just too busy paying someone else's mortgage
Not jealous of the golf though - I like the idea, but if I'm spending half a day out walking, I want my dogs with me!