RugbyRebels

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:Yep, great news. Already felt like a year too long.

Given the timing, you would think it'll be an internal appointment and Mike Blair would be interesting. I wouod hope it's not Hodge again.

Given he's not involved with pre season they're s good chance he'll be gone.

Seem 3 names suggested; Blair, Dalziel amd Walton who is currently leading the Gloucester academy. All have pros and cons.

You don't want Peter Walton, absolutely not. Best leave him where he is and not have him involved in Scottish rugby at all.

He was one half of the double act that was responsible for the English rugby player pipeline for 10 years and who were widely acclaimed as massive influences by the likes of Itoje, May, the Vunipolae, George, LCD, Smith, Curry, Redpath - basically any player who's come through the English U18s between 2008 and 2018 cites him and John Fletcher as being huge in their development.

Dean Ryan, genius that he was, sacked them both because they wouldn't agree with his plans for the future, and then promptly went off to another job himself within a few months. Sadly Fletcher's now lost to the game, having set up a consultancy business, but we've managed to keep Walton, even if he's stuck at Glaws.

So yeah, you don't want him. At all.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:Yep, great news. Already felt like a year too long.

Given the timing, you would think it'll be an internal appointment and Mike Blair would be interesting. I wouod hope it's not Hodge again.

Given he's not involved with pre season they're s good chance he'll be gone.

Seem 3 names suggested; Blair, Dalziel amd Walton who is currently leading the Gloucester academy. All have pros and cons.

You don't want Peter Walton, absolutely not. Best leave him where he is and not have him involved in Scottish rugby at all.

He was one half of the double act that was responsible for the English rugby player pipeline for 10 years and who were widely acclaimed as massive influences by the likes of Itoje, May, the Vunipolae, George, LCD, Smith, Curry, Redpath - basically any player who's come through the English U18s between 2008 and 2018 cites him and John Fletcher as being huge in their development.

Dean Ryan, genius that he was, sacked them both because they wouldn't agree with his plans for the future, and then promptly went off to another job himself within a few months. Sadly Fletcher's now lost to the game, having set up a consultancy business, but we've managed to keep Walton, even if he's stuck at Glaws.

So yeah, you don't want him. At all.

Puja

thanks for the heads up confirming what was known. Peter will be on the SRU radar, maybe not head coach but for the forwards, as long a she understands fast ball not tediously slow ball wins games

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:

AL. wrote:
Yeah I just saw this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57888797

Mixed feelings, he did a good job but I think the (or my perceived) lack of spark was starting to grind on the squad, wonder who go the cheque book out is he not still in contract? (Or was he booted).

Pity Scott Robertson resigned for Crusaders.....

TBH, I think this is an excellent result for Edinburgh. Cockerill's an excellent forwards coach and a decent enough head coach, but he's exceptionally stuck in his ways and doesn't adapt (or look to any youth development). You've had the advantage of him building you up and setting solid systems in place, without getting the subsequent slide and eventual firing when he keeps hammering away with the same stale approach that isn't working.

Puja

Timing is the only issue for me. Pre season has begun IIRC.

This is the right time is a RC tenure for him to move on. Pick a team up from rock bottom instil some sort of culture then move on. It is a very specific skill set and some people can't do it, but for me that is what he is now.

think only just started, so will be mainly fitness focus.
Fact is there is never a right time to change head coach, whenever it happens results in consequential issues. New coach inherits old coach squad, has to undo learning, teach new game plan - best time to do the last 2 is exactly now (which needs a new appointment ASAP). Announce mid season coach will leave at end and big danger that coach loses focus, certainly on recruitment either cos too busy looking for own next gig, or so as not to land successor with more of the same and/or leave him budget room to recruit own - which is troublesome if successor is already in a full role (Glasgow learned these lessons with Rennie's coming and going).
In fact this could be as good a time as any to change coach

The one definite problem with the timing is its a season too late. And if rumours are true he may have gone for reasons other than Edinburgh's abysmal game plan, recruitment, and development of young guys. SRU had had enough for other reasons

if you can access if there is an article in the Times today by John Barclay. Lets just say he isn't surprised by this latest development

septic 9 wrote:if you can access if there is an article in the Times today by John Barclay. Lets just say he isn't surprised by this latest development

Copy and paste to share with the class?

Puja

Puja wrote:

septic 9 wrote:if you can access if there is an article in the Times today by John Barclay. Lets just say he isn't surprised by this latest development

Copy and paste to share with the class?

Puja

can't.

Basics are that Barclay says that Cockerill lost the dressing room ages ago. Players not allowed to deviate from gameplan to such an extent every on field decision they looked to the sidelines, ended so that players could not take decisions for fear of the inevitable full frontal embarrassing shouting that followed every game. Too much old school amateur bollocking and nothing else. Young players left the game as a result, senior players left.

Accepts and agrees that initially something like that was needed, but too much for too long, no evolution, never an arm round someone who needed it just more shouting in front of rest of squad and what he doesn't say but I suspect is that there has been
much feedback around and above Cockerill about what was happening and why.

As a few have been trying to say for the past year or two, Cockerill is stuck in the past

septic 9 wrote:

Puja wrote:

septic 9 wrote:if you can access if there is an article in the Times today by John Barclay. Lets just say he isn't surprised by this latest development

Copy and paste to share with the class?

Puja

can't.

Basics are that Barclay says that Cockerill lost the dressing room ages ago. Players not allowed to deviate from gameplan to such an extent every on field decision they looked to the sidelines, ended so that players could not take decisions for fear of the inevitable full frontal embarrassing shouting that followed every game. Too much old school amateur bollocking and nothing else. Young players left the game as a result, senior players left.

Accepts and agrees that initially something like that was needed, but too much for too long, no evolution, never an arm round someone who needed it just more shouting in front of rest of squad and what he doesn't say but I suspect is that there has been
much feedback around and above Cockerill about what was happening and why.

As a few have been trying to say for the past year or two, Cockerill is stuck in the past

Yeah, that sounds familiar. At least you only kept him 1 season too long, as opposed to us who probably kept him 4-5 too many.

Puja

septic 9 wrote:

Puja wrote:

septic 9 wrote:if you can access if there is an article in the Times today by John Barclay. Lets just say he isn't surprised by this latest development

Copy and paste to share with the class?

Puja

can't.

Basics are that Barclay says that Cockerill lost the dressing room ages ago. Players not allowed to deviate from gameplan to such an extent every on field decision they looked to the sidelines, ended so that players could not take decisions for fear of the inevitable full frontal embarrassing shouting that followed every game. Too much old school amateur bollocking and nothing else. Young players left the game as a result, senior players left.

Accepts and agrees that initially something like that was needed, but too much for too long, no evolution, never an arm round someone who needed it just more shouting in front of rest of squad and what he doesn't say but I suspect is that there has been
much feedback around and above Cockerill about what was happening and why.

As a few have been trying to say for the past year or two, Cockerill is stuck in the past

The deprogramming of many of these guys will be one of the first jobs. The poor buggers have had Solomons and then Cockerill.

Big D wrote:
The deprogramming of many of these guys will be one of the first jobs. The poor buggers have had Solomons and then Cockerill.

it will but TBF it seems there has been some counter programming going on at Scotland camps.

All coaches have a shelf life, a time to move on. That's life. I do not have the same feeling about Solomons that I do for Cockerill. Solomons inherited the deepest shit culture wise, and everyone knew it had been going on for many a year. He sorted some but not all, then was asked to stay on a year longer than he should (and that was down to a mega cock up by SJ)
I think Cockerill first for a couple of seasons then Solomons would have worked out a whole lot better, but that was never on offer.

It is what it is, should have been let go before he signed his contract extension in 2020. he's gone now

Blair it is.

Big D wrote:Blair it is.

Big opportunity for him but a big challenge too. I hope that he's enough of his own man to stamp his authority on the squad and articulate a clear vision. Big risk that it's too soon after he retired and he's too close to how it's always been done.

switchskier wrote:

Big D wrote:Blair it is.

Big opportunity for him but a big challenge too. I hope that he's enough of his own man to stamp his authority on the squad and articulate a clear vision. Big risk that it's too soon after he retired and he's too close to how it's always been done.

Surely it helps that’s he’s been around the block a bit as a coach since playing at Edinburgh though. I know it’s not long in terms of years, but still.

You’d think he’s got a pretty good idea of how Edinburgh could also be better set up to work with the national side. Or better than Cockerill at least.

How does this affect his job as Scotland assistant, will he have to resign from that job or can he do both?

Imho its a good appointment so I hope he does well .

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:How does this affect his job as Scotland assistant, will he have to resign from that job or can he do both?

Imho its a good appointment so I hope he does well .

he will step down from his Scotland role, I'd think with immediate effect (no reason not to). His Scotland role while important was in the main a step on his development path

He is also IMHO a very good appointment. Blair is a bright guy, very much like Toonie in that respect, not stuck in the past.
But we also need to remember not to expect immediate miracles. He has inherited Cockerill's squad and not been involved in next season's recruitment or retention. Still lost of good players but losing Sutherland, Bergan and Duhan will weaken the squad significantly. And adjusting to a new coach and gameplan will be welcomed but many/most players, but not necessarily all of them - we may discover a few huffies who need weeded out ASAP

Thanks septic 9 .

Any ideas or preferences as to who replaces him as assistant at Scotland, is John Dalziel a, possibility (please forgive me as I'm still only new to this rugby malarkey lol)?

Yeah, I really hope that Mike does well because I think he has now overtook Cockers as favourite to be Scotland head coach once Gregor finally steps down (I still hope that's a while away, preferably after the next 2 World Cup campaigns).

I'm still neutral in terms of club rugby but I will certainly keep an eye on Edinburgh results and try and watch as many games as possible on Premier Sports .

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:Thanks septic 9 .

Any ideas or preferences as to who replaces him as assistant at Scotland, is John Dalziel a, possibility (please forgive me as I'm still only new to this rugby malarkey lol)?

Yeah, I really hope that Mike does well because I think he has now overtook Cockers as favourite to be Scotland head coach once Gregor finally steps down (I still hope that's a while away, preferably after the next 2 World Cup campaigns).

I'm still neutral in terms of club rugby but I will certainly keep an eye on Edinburgh results and try and watch as many games as possible on Premier Sports .

It's more a skills/backs coach theyl need so not Dalziel. Not sure who'll it'l be but I would imagine someone making their way up the ranks.

Cameo wrote:

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:Thanks septic 9 .

Any ideas or preferences as to who replaces him as assistant at Scotland, is John Dalziel a, possibility (please forgive me as I'm still only new to this rugby malarkey lol)?

Yeah, I really hope that Mike does well because I think he has now overtook Cockers as favourite to be Scotland head coach once Gregor finally steps down (I still hope that's a while away, preferably after the next 2 World Cup campaigns).

I'm still neutral in terms of club rugby but I will certainly keep an eye on Edinburgh results and try and watch as many games as possible on Premier Sports .

It's more a skills/backs coach theyl need so not Dalziel. Not sure who'll it'l be but I would imagine someone making their way up the ranks.

Macrae would be the obvious one. Hopefully not Hodge. Interested to see if he stays at edinburgh as Blair has overtaken him in a coaching sense and presumably has his own ideas about attacking play. On the other hand they played together for years as Edinburgh half backs.

switchskier wrote:

Cameo wrote:

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:Thanks septic 9 .

Any ideas or preferences as to who replaces him as assistant at Scotland, is John Dalziel a, possibility (please forgive me as I'm still only new to this rugby malarkey lol)?

Yeah, I really hope that Mike does well because I think he has now overtook Cockers as favourite to be Scotland head coach once Gregor finally steps down (I still hope that's a while away, preferably after the next 2 World Cup campaigns).

I'm still neutral in terms of club rugby but I will certainly keep an eye on Edinburgh results and try and watch as many games as possible on Premier Sports .

It's more a skills/backs coach theyl need so not Dalziel. Not sure who'll it'l be but I would imagine someone making their way up the ranks.

Macrae would be the obvious one. Hopefully not Hodge. Interested to see if he stays at edinburgh as Blair has overtaken him in a coaching sense and presumably has his own ideas about attacking play. On the other hand they played together for years as Edinburgh half backs.

always tricked when unplanned, but I am confident that SRU have a handle on who might be available, or who they will have on the radar to approach when vacancies arise, perhaps even in regular contact for as and when - kinda like they do with players.

No-one really knows how good/bad Hodge is as backs coach. Impossible under a shambles then Cockerill. If he is "moved out" there will be a pay off cost; and a new backs coach found. If McCrae is moved sideways (not the worst idea), need to find a new defence coach - could be what other candidates are available in which role would determine whether McCrae moves or sticks in his current role

Then there is balancing off developing Scottish coaches against importing new ideas form outside. I can't see a high profile outsider coming to work under a new young head coach, I wouldn't go there myself. There are few younger coaches worth considering (Murchie the most obvious, and other S6 coaches who have a few seasons under their belt).

And there is another ex Edin fly half who has been coaching backs at high level (not exactly THE highest, but professionally) for a few years now. He has just changed jobs, but just might be persuadable I guess.

Blair may have his ideas as well. Main thing is whoever if proffered up has to be someone Blair wants and wants to work with. He has to have the final say.

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:
I'm still neutral in terms of club rugby but I will certainly keep an eye on Edinburgh results and try and watch as many games as possible on Premier Sports .

if as your login name suggests are in Caley region, you can by all means watch as much of both sides as you can, but you are in the Glasgow catchment. Don't be tempted into damnation by supporting the the dark side

septic 9 wrote:

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:
I'm still neutral in terms of club rugby but I will certainly keep an eye on Edinburgh results and try and watch as many games as possible on Premier Sports .

if as your login name suggests are in Caley region, you can by all means watch as much of both sides as you can, but you are in the Glasgow catchment. Don't be tempted into damnation by supporting the the dark side

It's awkward for us Caley folk.

Big D wrote:
It's awkward for us Caley folk.

I know, I turned up at McD. Park fairly recently, and they were playing bloody football..
No refund either..

Big D wrote:

septic 9 wrote:

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:
I'm still neutral in terms of club rugby but I will certainly keep an eye on Edinburgh results and try and watch as many games as possible on Premier Sports .

if as your login name suggests are in Caley region, you can by all means watch as much of both sides as you can, but you are in the Glasgow catchment. Don't be tempted into damnation by supporting the the dark side

It's awkward for us Caley folk.

rearrange into a well know phrase or saying? "Its all us Caley folk for awkward"

Tobylerone wrote:

Big D wrote:
It's awkward for us Caley folk.

I know, I turned up at McD. Park fairly recently, and they were playing bloody football..
No refund either..

like!

Bit like going to the library to watch Edinburgh in recent seasons. Whatever it was, it wasn't rugby. Mind you, so cheap almost paying you to go

The Caley part of the username refers to football lol not a region .

And no you ain't going to away me lol, I'm happy being neutral haha.

Scottish Caley Fan wrote:The Caley part of the username refers to football lol not a region .

And no you ain't going to away me lol, I'm happy being neutral haha.

still affiliated with the Weegies