RugbyRebels

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:It's a completely deregulated free for all. Moon landing conspiracies are one thing, but shit like pseudoscience (anti vaccine nutters) and unofficial statements from officials that are germane to policy making are not OK. Social media siphons screeds of data from the public with impunity then profits off selling that data to the highest bidder. What is that bidder happens to be a body of people seeking election, or an elected body of people unduely influenced by lobbyists with vested interest that has the potential to impact on health or sensitive foreign policy? This is fucking insanity. Regulate it. Now.

How?

Puja

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:It's a completely deregulated free for all. Moon landing conspiracies are one thing, but shit like pseudoscience (anti vaccine nutters) and unofficial statements from officials that are germane to policy making are not OK. Social media siphons screeds of data from the public with impunity then profits off selling that data to the highest bidder. What is that bidder happens to be a body of people seeking election, or an elected body of people unduely influenced by lobbyists with vested interest that has the potential to impact on health or sensitive foreign policy? This is fucking insanity. Regulate it. Now.

How?

Puja

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Digby wrote:Honest Mitch McConell has observed there are problems with rising federal debt, and to address these they need to look at cutting entitlement programmes, which is to say the big social and health care packages, providing they can hive some of the blame onto the Democrats

I don't know if he recalls the unfunded tax cut for rich people he and his boss trumped, but that does look unwarranted and hugely hypocritical when suddenly again claiming to be a deficit hawk

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:It's a completely deregulated free for all. Moon landing conspiracies are one thing, but shit like pseudoscience (anti vaccine nutters) and unofficial statements from officials that are germane to policy making are not OK. Social media siphons screeds of data from the public with impunity then profits off selling that data to the highest bidder. What is that bidder happens to be a body of people seeking election, or an elected body of people unduely influenced by lobbyists with vested interest that has the potential to impact on health or sensitive foreign policy? This is fucking insanity. Regulate it. Now.

How?

Puja

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:
How?

Puja

Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:
Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:
Step one: regulate them as media platforms, not technology platforms.

It's like Uber. Challenged that it was, in fact, a taxi service, it threw a hissy fit. AirBnB is not a technology company, it's a holiday home rental company. Facebook is not a technology company, it's a media company. etc., etc.

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

canta_brian wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

It certainly sells advertising in the uk.

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Slight problem with that, and I agree in principle with you, is that Uber and the like physically operate in the UK. Facebook don’t. Unless you want to block Facebook at a national level, which would be hugely unpopular, then all the UK government can really do is lobbynthr US government to do something. The internet won’t be regulated until there is a global approach.

Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

So you can hammer the UK company but Facebook isn’t UK based so I wish you luck with enforcement. There are no assets in the UK a court could seize.

Sandydragon wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

It certainly sells advertising in the uk.

. If it targets UK customers then it’s doing business in genUK. But without UK assets a British Court will struggle to enforce a judgement.

Digby wrote:Trump isn't wrong that Russia flouts its nuclear treaty obligations, but Russia can reasonably cite so too does the USA, and on a much bigger scale

Maybe how Trump acts is how some people view the freedom of an event like brexit, but if the whole world plays the game in such fashion then heaven help us

WaspInWales wrote:Modern day America folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45928212

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
Does facebook sell data to uk firms? If yes then it operates here.

So you can hammer the UK company but Facebook isn’t UK based so I wish you luck with enforcement. There are no assets in the UK a court could seize.

It has a UK subsidiary, what are you on about?

Stom wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

canta_brian wrote:
It certainly sells advertising in the uk.

. If it targets UK customers then it’s doing business in genUK. But without UK assets a British Court will struggle to enforce a judgement.

If they can manage it for online gambling, they can manage it for FB.

WaspInWales wrote:Modern day America folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45928212

Puja wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:Modern day America folks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45928212

{sigh} Why is it that the loonies always get into the press? For reference, this is not what paganism is about and, frankly is against the major tenet of it (which effectively boils down to "Don't be a dick"). This lot are clearly as mad as a sack of hammers and do not represent me.

Puja

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:
So you can hammer the UK company but Facebook isn’t UK based so I wish you luck with enforcement. There are no assets in the UK a court could seize.

It has a UK subsidiary, what are you on about?

It does, but how liable is a subsidiary for a criminal act (or civil legal action) that happens elsewhere in the wider organisation? Does the U.K. operation control operations or have any impact on how the data is used and managed or is it just here for advertising purposes?

I don’t actually know the answer to that, but that is part of the fun in prosecuting multinationals.

But my main point here is that a unilateral approach to this won’t be effective, unless a country adopts th Chinese approach and blocks a host of websites, which wouldn’t be acceptable here.

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
It has a UK subsidiary, what are you on about?

It does, but how liable is a subsidiary for a criminal act (or civil legal action) that happens elsewhere in the wider organisation? Does the U.K. operation control operations or have any impact on how the data is used and managed or is it just here for advertising purposes?

I don’t actually know the answer to that, but that is part of the fun in prosecuting multinationals.

But my main point here is that a unilateral approach to this won’t be effective, unless a country adopts th Chinese approach and blocks a host of websites, which wouldn’t be acceptable here.

If they won't obey the law, block the website.

Stom wrote:I'm honestly thinking more along the lines of taxation. Hit them where it hurts. They get away with paying no tax because they're a "tech" company and the platform is not based in the UK, its in a tax haven like Ireland or Luxembourg. So introduce point if consumption. Every ad seen by a UK based server is taxed. Bingo.

I'd do the same to all those American companies. And the UK has been one of the only countries with the ability to do that. After brexit that may not be the case...

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:I'm honestly thinking more along the lines of taxation. Hit them where it hurts. They get away with paying no tax because they're a "tech" company and the platform is not based in the UK, its in a tax haven like Ireland or Luxembourg. So introduce point if consumption. Every ad seen by a UK based server is taxed. Bingo.

I'd do the same to all those American companies. And the UK has been one of the only countries with the ability to do that. After brexit that may not be the case...

That would take a global deal or a willingness to block certain sites. Also we likely have a problem with how transient companies are perhaps going to be with new technology coming online

We might get an agreed tax position for Facebook and Twitter just in time to see them vanish into nothing. Even the internet could be gone inside the next few decades