RugbyRebels

Ach, meant to put the Cokanasiga ‘fact’ in the EPS thread.

It was Ugo Monye wat said it, so I expect it’s true. He specifically name checked Cokanasiga as having better times than Watson and Joseph.

Not sure if he’d be quite 18 stone, but he’s got to be 17 stone plus, so huge regardless.

Mellsblue wrote:You saying he needs to bulk up?!?

So we all know Eddie’s training squad will be a bizarre mix of names, but who would you go for based on early season form?

I’d be picking from:

1. M. Vunipola / Marler / Rapava-Ruskin
2. Hartley / George / Dunn
3. Williams / Thomas
4. Itoje / Lawes
5. Launchbury / Kruis / Attwood
6. Wilson / Mercer
7. T. Curry / Underhill / Kvesic / Ludlow
8. B. Vunipola / S. Simmonds / Hughes
9. Robson / Youngs / Spencer
10. Ford / Cipriani
11. May / Lewington / Cokanasiga
12. Farrell / Francis
13. Slade / Marchant / Lozowski / Tuilagi
14. Nowell / Yarde
15. Daly

Feast and famine really ... lots of choice in some areas. Precious little in others.

If I were truly doing it on form alone, you’d have to have a look at Billy Twelvetrees, Ed Slater and Charlie Sharples too but I don’t see any of those as realistic contenders.

What can he have learnt in 3 games? The only player i can see being included who didnt tour SA for one reason or another is Cokanasiga.
And thats fine by me. I think the focus now should be working with a core squad and not having a look at a promising U20.

I didn’t suggest any ‘promising U20s’?

Sure there’s a couple of uncapped players VRR, Mercer, Ludlow and Lewington, but I’d argue that most of those have been pushing for some recognition for a while now. Mercer and Ludlow are continuing/exceeding their good form from last season and VRR’s picking up where he left off before his injury. With Genge out, I don’t see him as a wild shout for a training squad.

Should have made myself clearer. My reference to U20's was in relation to players such as Earl, Ibitoye and Olowofela who Eddie has included in squads before. Time to focus on those players who have something to offer now, and not those who will come into the frame post WC.

Timbo wrote:Ach, meant to put the Cokanasiga ‘fact’ in the EPS thread.

Your wish, etc. etc.

Puja

fivepointer wrote:Should have made myself clearer. My reference to U20's was in relation to players such as Earl, Ibitoye and Olowofela who Eddie has included in squads before. Time to focus on those players who have something to offer now, and not those who will come into the frame post WC.

Fair enough. 100% agree on that.

Scrumhead wrote:

fivepointer wrote:Should have made myself clearer. My reference to U20's was in relation to players such as Earl, Ibitoye and Olowofela who Eddie has included in squads before. Time to focus on those players who have something to offer now, and not those who will come into the frame post WC.

Fair enough. 100% agree on that.

I think too much is made of the "Apprentice Players". Basically, Eddie gets some tackle bag holders for his sessions who will be really keen and provide good opposition for the actual team, with an ancillary benefit of them getting to see what the international environment is all about. I don't think too much coaches' time is spent on them.

Puja

I'd not mind seeing Will Stuart coming in as an apprentice player.

Puja wrote:I think too much is made of the "Apprentice Players". Basically, Eddie gets some tackle bag holders for his sessions who will be really keen and provide good opposition for the actual team, with an ancillary benefit of them getting to see what the international environment is all about. I don't think too much coaches' time is spent on them.

I think it depends on what has been made of it, I think they play a full part in the training and analysis, even if their role in training is always "canon fodder". They don't get to trial alongside the seniors, but they're there and learning, and getting their own tips and coaching. I think we pretty much know this from what the likes of Mercer and Smith have said in interviews.

I also wouldn't underestimate the importance of simply being in the camp either, whether thats an Eddie style "Apprentice", or a Burt style "Guest". Especially for those at "lesser" clubs, just being around their heroes will be inspirational, let alone seeing the work ethic of a Haskell, Robshaw or Farrell, and knowing that that's where they've got to get to, let alone the tips and tricks they'll learn by watching those guys train, even if they never exchange a single word with one of the coaches.

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:I think too much is made of the "Apprentice Players". Basically, Eddie gets some tackle bag holders for his sessions who will be really keen and provide good opposition for the actual team, with an ancillary benefit of them getting to see what the international environment is all about. I don't think too much coaches' time is spent on them.

I think it depends on what has been made of it, I think they play a full part in the training and analysis, even if their role in training is always "canon fodder". They don't get to trial alongside the seniors, but they're there and learning, and getting their own tips and coaching. I think we pretty much know this from what the likes of Mercer and Smith have said in interviews.

I also wouldn't underestimate the importance of simply being in the camp either, whether thats an Eddie style "Apprentice", or a Burt style "Guest". Especially for those at "lesser" clubs, just being around their heroes will be inspirational, let alone seeing the work ethic of a Haskell, Robshaw or Farrell, and knowing that that's where they've got to get to, let alone the tips and tricks they'll learn by watching those guys train, even if they never exchange a single word with one of the coaches.

Oh yes - I was referring to 5p saying that Eddie shouldn't be focussing on U20 apprentice players with the implication that it was taking time away from the main team.

Puja

England training squad

Forwards: (20) Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Michael Rhodes (Saracens), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs: (16) Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Nathan Earle (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Dan Robson (Wasps), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Que no cips rage.

wow

I'm done trying to work out Eddie's thought process.

Gloskarlos wrote:wow

I'm not going to say what I usually say about Glous.
But cips should be in the squad, although not sure who you would drop.
Loz - Been playing very well and covers 10,12,13,15
Slade - Been the in form 13
Tuilagi - Guessing he wants to get him back into the set-up
Farrell - Pretty much undroppable
Ford - In form 10 and has England experience.

Te'o maybe.

Is there going to be any scrum training? Schonert is a tighthead right?

Tigersman wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:wow

I'm not going to say what I usually say about Glous.
But cips should be in the squad, although not sure who you would drop.
Loz - Been playing very well and covers 10,12,13,15
Slade - Been the in form 13
Tuilagi - Guessing he wants to get him back into the set-up
Farrell - Pretty much undroppable
Ford - In form 10 and has England experience.

Te'o maybe.

My wow was more general - still sticking with the same Sarries/tigers/saints pack - no Armand, no Simmonds, no Kvesic etc. sticking with the likes of Robshaw and Brown for example.

Tuilagi has a lot to prove after being out so long and only played 3 games. He's there on reputation in my book, a good rep but not there on merit as of now.

So unless this is a training squad to read next to nothing into I am still concerned.

I'm not surprised there are no other Gloucester players in the squad - I can't really think of one I would swap out for the incumbent position - but this statement from Eddie is another kick in the teeth for Cips :-

When asked if Cipriani's omission is based on form, Jones said: '100% We've decided to have just two stand offs. Danny is probably third or fourth stand-off. He knows what he has to work on. He's disappointed but understands'

That's fun. No Underhill, but Rhodes. No Spencer who played in SA, but Robson who didn't. Nathan Earle. Chris Ashton.

I'm with GlosKarlos - there's just no logical thread to follow there.

Puja

Gloskarlos wrote:

Tigersman wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:wow

I'm not going to say what I usually say about Glous.
But cips should be in the squad, although not sure who you would drop.
Loz - Been playing very well and covers 10,12,13,15
Slade - Been the in form 13
Tuilagi - Guessing he wants to get him back into the set-up
Farrell - Pretty much undroppable
Ford - In form 10 and has England experience.

Te'o maybe.

My wow was more general - still sticking with the same Sarries/tigers/saints pack - no Armand, no Simmonds, no Kvesic etc. sticking with the likes of Robshaw and Brown for example.

Tuilagi has a lot to prove after being out so long and only played 3 games. He's there on reputation in my book, a good rep but not there on merit as of now.

So unless this is a training squad to read next to nothing into I am still concerned.

I'm not surprised there are no other Gloucester players in the squad - I can't really think of one I would swap out for the incumbent position - but this statement from Eddie is another kick in the teeth for Cips :-

When asked if Cipriani's omission is based on form, Jones said: '100% We've decided to have just two stand offs. Danny is probably third or fourth stand-off. He knows what he has to work on. He's disappointed but understands'

Name me the Tiger forward in the team?

Puja wrote:That's fun. No Underhill, but Rhodes. No Spencer who played in SA, but Robson who didn't. Nathan Earle. Chris Ashton.

I'm with GlosKarlos - there's just no logical thread to follow there.

Puja

Agreed. I'm at something of a loss at some of the decisions...again.

Furthermore, I can't help shake the feeling that there's a combination of players (many of who are currently tearing it up in the prem) that could make this England side (and in particular the backs) really threatening.

And yet I know we'll go down a fairly slow, prosaic, predictable route. By that I mean Farrell and Brown will play and I'm not that chuffed about it

I had meant to delete the word 'pack' from my original post

Tigersman wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote: My wow was more general - still sticking with the same Sarries/tigers/saints pack - no Armand, no Simmonds, no Kvesic etc. sticking with the likes of Robshaw and Brown for example.

Tuilagi has a lot to prove after being out so long and only played 3 games. He's there on reputation in my book, a good rep but not there on merit as of now.

So unless this is a training squad to read next to nothing into I am still concerned.

I'm not surprised there are no other Gloucester players in the squad - I can't really think of one I would swap out for the incumbent position - but this statement from Eddie is another kick in the teeth for Cips :-

When asked if Cipriani's omission is based on form, Jones said: '100% We've decided to have just two stand offs. Danny is probably third or fourth stand-off. He knows what he has to work on. He's disappointed but understands'

Name me the Tiger forward in the team?

My reactions in order on reading this post.

"Wait, what? There's no Simmonds? That's insa..."

"Wait.... WHAT! There's no Cole. But there's Schonert. !?! What."

Puja

Gloskarlos wrote:[
When asked if Cipriani's omission is based on form, Jones said: '100% We've decided to have just two stand offs. Danny is probably third or fourth stand-off. He knows what he has to work on. He's disappointed but understands'

Who on earth is third choice if Cipriani is fourth?!?!

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:[
When asked if Cipriani's omission is based on form, Jones said: '100% We've decided to have just two stand offs. Danny is probably third or fourth stand-off. He knows what he has to work on. He's disappointed but understands'

Who on earth is third choice if Cipriani is fourth?!?!

Beats the hell out of me - Loz?