RugbyRebels

Cips should really be kicking for Gloucester though IMO.
Ford and Farrell both first choice kickers.

Another lopsided squad, 2 FH's and hookers but 7 back 3 players and 8 back rowers, with the omissions being the main talking point.
Cips is obviously hard done by. The form argument from Eddie is total BS.
Cole must be injured?
Simmonds is unlucky, as are Underhill, Spencer and LCD.
Loz is retained despite not playing a minute in SA, Manu brought back when his form hardly justifies it, Te'o gets the nod despite not playing so far and Ashton breezes in off the back of....what exactly? And Michael Rhodes is a better option than Jono Ross or Don Armand....perleeeeeze!!

fivepointer wrote:Another lopsided squad, 2 FH's and hookers but 7 back 3 players and 8 back rowers, with the omissions being the main talking point.
Cips is obviously hard done by. The form argument from Eddie is total BS.
Cole must be injured?
Simmonds is unlucky, as are Underhill, Spencer and LCD.
Loz is retained despite not playing a minute in SA, Manu brought back when his form hardly justifies it, Te'o gets the nod despite not playing so far and Ashton breezes in off the back of....what exactly? And Michael Rhodes is a better option than Jono Ross or Don Armand....perleeeeeze!!

He's fine.

This is shit. I've got to the point I'm not even excited about England announcements.

I guess Robshaw is a 7 again now? What is the need for all of Shields, Wilson, Rhodes and Robshaw in one team? Either we're approaching games with Curry at 7 as the plan and no suitable replacement, or he's just there to add a mirage of balance to the backrow.

Teo's injury record must be worse than Manu's in the last 12 months right? Francis now playing infinitely better than he has done but finally fails to make a squad. Lol.

Cipriani call is bollocks.

Underhill call is bollocks.

Robson/Spencer/Lozowski situations are just weird.

I really like Simmonds but at least Jones is admitting here that he doesn't know how to use him effectively. I hope he does better with Mercer.

Loosehead: Mako, Marler
Tighthead: Williams, Sinckler, Schonert
Hooker: Hartley, George
Lock: Itoje, Launchbury, Kruis, Lawes, Isiekwe
Blindside: Rhodes, Robshaw, Wilson, Shields
Openside: T Curry
8: Hughes, Billy, Mercer

Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Robson
10: Ford, Farrell
Centre: Tuilagi, Te’o, Lozowski, Slade
Wing: May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Earle, Ashton
Fullback: Brown, Daly

Gloskarlos wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:[
When asked if Cipriani's omission is based on form, Jones said: '100% We've decided to have just two stand offs. Danny is probably third or fourth stand-off. He knows what he has to work on. He's disappointed but understands'

Who on earth is third choice if Cipriani is fourth?!?!

Beats the hell out of me - Loz?

He hasn’t played there in donkeys. Maths really isn’t Jones’s strong point.

Mellsblue wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Who on earth is third choice if Cipriani is fourth?!?!

Beats the hell out of me - Loz?

He hasn’t played there in donkeys. Maths really isn’t Jones’s strong point.

Well I missed Mako's name on the first read and genuinely thought he was happy to go into camp with 1 loosehead and 3 tightheads. It didn't even seem like a big surprise.

It's also odd he talks about going in with 2 fly-halves, when obviously Farrell will be his starting 12.

Timbo wrote:Loosehead: Mako, Marler
Tighthead: Williams, Sinckler, Schonert
Hooker: Hartley, George
Lock: Itoje, Launchbury, Kruis, Lawes, Isiekwe
Blindside: Rhodes, Robshaw, Wilson, Shields
Openside: T Curry
8: Hughes, Billy, Mercer

Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Robson
10: Ford, Farrell
Centre: Tuilagi, Te’o, Lozowski, Slade
Wing: May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Earle, Ashton
Fullback: Brown, Daly

Thank you; that's much clearer.

Let's see - swap Schonert for Cole, Rhodes for Underhill, Hughes for Simmonds, Shields for Kvesic, Te'o for Marchant, Earle for Cipriani and bring in LCD, and I'd be a lot happier.

Puja

I'm at the stage now where I've given up all hope of fathoming out what the Koala Jedi is trying to achieve.

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:Loosehead: Mako, Marler
Tighthead: Williams, Sinckler, Schonert
Hooker: Hartley, George
Lock: Itoje, Launchbury, Kruis, Lawes, Isiekwe
Blindside: Rhodes, Robshaw, Wilson, Shields
Openside: T Curry
8: Hughes, Billy, Mercer

Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Robson
10: Ford, Farrell
Centre: Tuilagi, Te’o, Lozowski, Slade
Wing: May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Earle, Ashton
Fullback: Brown, Daly

Thank you; that's much clearer.

Let's see - swap Schonert for Cole, Rhodes for Underhill, Hughes for Simmonds, Shields for Kvesic, Te'o for Marchant, Earle for Cipriani and bring in LCD, and I'd be a lot happier.

Puja

Earle, Jesus. I didn't spot him either. You could even argue Cipriani as a 15, given that I'm apparently now a fucking winger.

Hughes at least appears to be playing more like his old/young self this season. The game this weekend was the first time I'd actually seen him though and it seems like the same issue with running upright into contact, at this level- or simply on a very good day- he can get away with it, offload or simply muscle his way through contact, but I fear he hasn't learned and will just get tanked again.

Only saw him get totally slammed once this season actually, by that Armand fella.

Cole looking any less knackered?

Timbo wrote:Loosehead: Mako, Marler
Tighthead: Williams, Sinckler, Schonert
Hooker: Hartley, George
Lock: Itoje, Launchbury, Kruis, Lawes, Isiekwe
Blindside: Rhodes, Robshaw, Wilson, Shields
Openside: T Curry
8: Hughes, Billy, Mercer

Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Robson
10: Ford, Farrell
Centre: Tuilagi, Te’o, Lozowski, Slade
Wing: May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Earle, Ashton
Fullback: Brown, Daly

That rather makes it look like some of the BSFs will be OSFs and we see the triumphant return of Itoje at 6.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:Loosehead: Mako, Marler
Tighthead: Williams, Sinckler, Schonert
Hooker: Hartley, George
Lock: Itoje, Launchbury, Kruis, Lawes, Isiekwe
Blindside: Rhodes, Robshaw, Wilson, Shields
Openside: T Curry
8: Hughes, Billy, Mercer

Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Robson
10: Ford, Farrell
Centre: Tuilagi, Te’o, Lozowski, Slade
Wing: May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Earle, Ashton
Fullback: Brown, Daly

Thank you; that's much clearer.

Let's see - swap Schonert for Cole, Rhodes for Underhill, Hughes for Simmonds, Shields for Kvesic, Te'o for Marchant, Earle for Cipriani and bring in LCD, and I'd be a lot happier.

Puja

Earle, Jesus. I didn't spot him either. You could even argue Cipriani as a 15, given that I'm apparently now a fucking winger.

Hughes at least appears to be playing more like his old/young self this season. The game this weekend was the first time I'd actually seen him though and it seems like the same issue with running upright into contact, at this level- or simply on a very good day- he can get away with it, offload or simply muscle his way through contact, but I fear he hasn't learned and will just get tanked again.

Only saw him get totally slammed once this season actually, by that Armand fella.

Cole looking any less knackered?

No Solomona, which I suppose is good, although Yarde must be looking at that and wondering how he got caps when out of form, but can't get in the squad now he's back in form.

Puja

Yep. Yarde should have been in the Francis category too. I have my doubts he will ever quite have the temperament/concentration to fulfil his potential, but (like 12T) has been right up there if you're genuinely looking at form this season.

We do need to remember it’s only for the training camp.
On the plus side, we could field an all SH front row of Mako, Hartley and Schonert a SH back row of Rhodes, Shields and Billy, and complement it with an all SH centre partnership.

Mellsblue wrote:We do need to remember it’s only for the training camp.
On the plus side, we could field an all SH front row of Mako, Hartley and Schonert a SH back row of Rhodes, Shields and Billy, and complement it with an all SH centre partnership.

I've run out of ways to interpret this in any way that makes me more optimistic.

What would he be doing with this particular training squad that will make future squad selections better? Whittle down some of the options in the backrow and at centre? I don't imagine it's the case that he's seen enough of Underhill/Simmonds to guarantee them a spot, for example.

Bizarre.

Why on earth didn’t he just let Cips go to France? He's going to annoy a good number of players with this sort of thinking, and there just wasn't any need for it. He's also increased the pressure to win all AI games with this which again is weird and again just wasn't needed

Mellsblue wrote:We do need to remember it’s only for the training camp.
On the plus side, we could field an all SH front row of Mako, Hartley and Schonert a SH back row of Rhodes, Shields and Billy, and complement it with an all SH centre partnership.

But this is a training camp with a brand new defensive coach and a vital opportunity to work with the players. I don't see why cocking about is acceptable cause it's only a training camp - these things are what th EPS was fought for!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:We do need to remember it’s only for the training camp.
On the plus side, we could field an all SH front row of Mako, Hartley and Schonert a SH back row of Rhodes, Shields and Billy, and complement it with an all SH centre partnership.

But this is a training camp with a brand new defensive coach and a vital opportunity to work with the players. I don't see why cocking about is acceptable cause it's only a training camp - these things are what th EPS was fought for!

Puja

Exactly

Digby wrote:Why on earth didn’t he just let Cips go to France? He's going to annoy a good number of players with this sort of thinking, and there just wasn't any need for it. He's also increased the pressure to win all AI games with this which again is weird and again just wasn't needed

Maybe he preferred Gloucestershire to Mediterranean coas....ah, no, wait. Cipriani deserves to be really pissed off.

Timbo wrote:Loosehead: Mako, Marler
Tighthead: Williams, Sinckler, Schonert
Hooker: Hartley, George
Lock: Itoje, Launchbury, Kruis, Lawes, Isiekwe
Blindside: Rhodes, Robshaw, Wilson, Shields
Openside: T Curry
8: Hughes, Billy, Mercer

Scrumhalf: Youngs, Care, Robson
10: Ford, Farrell
Centre: Tuilagi, Te’o, Lozowski, Slade
Wing: May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Earle, Ashton
Fullback: Brown, Daly

We can point out the same holes over and over again in this one. 4 Blindsides and 1 Openside. No 12s. 2 hookers. No Simmonds. No Cips...

But it is a training squad.

However, I do feel like we should be looking at players number 27-32... A WC squad is likely to be:

Mako
Marler
Hartley
George
Williams
Itoje
Launch
Kruis
Lawes
Billy
Hughes
Robshaw
Curry
Youngs
Care
Ford
Farrell
Joseph
May
Watson (if fit)
Daly
Brown
Nowell

It's likely to include:

Shields, Sinckler, Slade

So I would like to see the gaps filled in now. We don't have a gap at 6. We don't need 4. So why do it? We don't have a gap at lock. We don't need 6. So why do it? We need 1 or 2 wingers, so having a fight off between Earle and Cokaganisa is a good idea. But what about the 3rd hooker? The backup 7? The backup 10/12?

Yeah, I'd be wanting to get those guys in camp. The first two are easy: LCD/Dunn and Underhill. Which has the added benefit that Underhill can play 6. Cips for 10 or someone new?

Yeah, unless he's specifically told those players to go away and work on something specific away from camp...

I'm not remotely comforted by the fact that its a training squad.
The selections reveal exactly how Eddie is thinking and where players are in the pecking order.
I'm dismayed by Cips omission in particular, which is grossly unfair and founded on a lie. His form demands selection.
I'm now at the stage of just getting irritated by some of these selections.
But its crunch time. If Eddie believes these players, along with one or two absentees, are the ones to take us through to the WC, then so be it.
Stick with this lot, work to make them better and produce winning teams.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:We do need to remember it’s only for the training camp.
On the plus side, we could field an all SH front row of Mako, Hartley and Schonert a SH back row of Rhodes, Shields and Billy, and complement it with an all SH centre partnership.

I've run out of ways to interpret this in any way that makes me more optimistic.

What would he be doing with this particular training squad that will make future squad selections better? Whittle down some of the options in the backrow and at centre? I don't imagine it's the case that he's seen enough of Underhill/Simmonds to guarantee them a spot, for example.

Yep. I’m grasping at straws.

Christ this has spoiled my day. I was blissfully unaware that a training squad was to be announced til now. Sometimes it's better to keep away from RR.

Beasties wrote:Christ this has spoiled my day. I was blissfully unaware that a training squad was to be announced til now. Sometimes it's better to keep away from RR.

Yeah well get a load of this from Guscott;

"Farrell has been one of the best midfield backs in the international game for the past four seasons. What is required now is for the rest of the England backs to match Farrell’s consistency."