And to finish - Ireland

[Mikey Brown]

The decision that worries me most is the consistent removal of our most creative back when we need to play catch up.

I really don’t think creativity is on the list of priorities though, unfortunately.

[Digby]

The decision that worries me most is the consistent removal of our most creative back when we need to play catch up.

I really don’t think creativity is on the list of priorities though, unfortunately.

That's perfectly fair. But we knew that when we hired Eddie, and we likely don't need it if we can (a) not give away so many pens it ruins us and (b) actually find a way into the game continuing the uber quick ruck game

Frankly you might not even want it because you'd have to be so much better to make it count in consistent fashion

[Mikey Brown]

That seems to be a big focus of yours, but that’s surely not a new situation. Wouldn’t most sides would feel the job is half done if they’re getting lightning quick ball? It certainly transforms Youngs, but I feel like that’s as much about his own limitations.

Do you feel there’s something in Eddie’s plan that means we’re particularly likely to be able to create enough of it, assuming we can see our way to giving <10 penalties away per game.

[Banquo]

That seems to be a big focus of yours, but that’s surely not a new situation. Wouldn’t most sides would feel the job is half done if they’re getting lightning quick ball? It certainly transforms Youngs, but I feel like that’s as much about his own limitations.

Do you feel there’s something in Eddie’s plan that means we’re particularly likely to be able to create enough of it, assuming we can see our way to giving <10 penalties away per game.

we've scored plenty of points bar Scotland, even giving up huge swathes of hard earned territory through penalties when in attacking positions. Our problem has been more about conceding (soft) points- we've never conceded anything like 121 points as far as I can recall. Now I think with an improvement in basic skills we can score more points, with the caveat that we need to carry better more of the time up front.

[Digby]

That seems to be a big focus of yours, but that’s surely not a new situation. Wouldn’t most sides would feel the job is half done if they’re getting lightning quick ball? It certainly transforms Youngs, but I feel like that’s as much about his own limitations.

Do you feel there’s something in Eddie’s plan that means we’re particularly likely to be able to create enough of it, assuming we can see our way to giving <10 penalties away per game.

Most sides aren't getting quick ball, or at least nothing like what is now quick ball for England, and you cannot just ape that. And yes, I think if you can run multiphase sub 1.5 second rucks and even some sub 1 second rucks, you will create chances, because nobody is folding around the corner fast enough to get off the line. Perhaps defences can/will adapt a defence to stay in the game with scramble after scramble, but you really should be creating chances.

What will feck that or any other plan over is giving away penalties and/or losing the set piece, but the work off the ball and the systems (bar losing the joint 10s into the rucks) is looking functionally about right if we can control penalties and 1st phase.

More carriers wouldn't hurt, but it rarely does unless nobody supports and they only offer to carry.

[Raggs]

Yeah, quickball in terms of England is crazy compared to what most sides are aiming for. It's manipulating the defence through sheer speed of play, rather than trying to get quick ball from a play that has manipulated the defence .

[Banquo]

Yeah, quickball in terms of England is crazy compared to what most sides are aiming for. It's manipulating the defence through sheer speed of play, rather than trying to get quick ball from a play that has manipulated the defence .

One of the 'issues' with that appears to be the unpredictability of where defenders will be, so everyone is confused; that puts a premium on decision making and scanning....and that's what Ford does a lot even without the ball- he's almost quarterbacking and calling plays in real time.

[Digby]

Having waited to play any rugby since 2002/3 I am a little loathe to condemn the initial birthings of an attempt to play that actually makes sense. I'd expect them to struggle early doors given they're not used to playing, and it's a massive challenge to go for the system they've opted for on both the cardio and decision making front.

The discipline though is a big concern, and then the carrying, and maybe the set piece

[Raggs]

Having waited to play any rugby since 2002/3 I am a little loathe to condemn the initial birthings of an attempt to play that actually makes sense. I'd expect them to struggle early doors given they're not used to playing, and it's a massive challenge to go for the system they've opted for on both the cardio and decision making front.

The discipline though is a big concern, and then the carrying, and maybe the set piece

I think the return of Launch or Lawes in the 2nd row helps a bit with the carrying. As indeed Underhill to a degree. Still doesn't solve Daly or the centres though.

It's seems odd that English rugby struggles with finding a bosh centre that's actually half decent.

[Digby]

Having waited to play any rugby since 2002/3 I am a little loathe to condemn the initial birthings of an attempt to play that actually makes sense. I'd expect them to struggle early doors given they're not used to playing, and it's a massive challenge to go for the system they've opted for on both the cardio and decision making front.

The discipline though is a big concern, and then the carrying, and maybe the set piece

I think the return of Launch or Lawes in the 2nd row helps a bit with the carrying. As indeed Underhill to a degree. Still doesn't solve Daly or the centres though.

It's seems odd that English rugby struggles with finding a bosh centre that's actually half decent.

Who doesn't struggle in the centres?

Teams have different problems, but nobody is able to pick Fickou and Fickou

[Banquo]

Having waited to play any rugby since 2002/3 I am a little loathe to condemn the initial birthings of an attempt to play that actually makes sense. I'd expect them to struggle early doors given they're not used to playing, and it's a massive challenge to go for the system they've opted for on both the cardio and decision making front.

The discipline though is a big concern, and then the carrying, and maybe the set piece

I think the return of Launch or Lawes in the 2nd row helps a bit with the carrying. As indeed Underhill to a degree. Still doesn't solve Daly or the centres though.

It's seems odd that English rugby struggles with finding a bosh centre that's actually half decent.

This is where I get frustrated (not with you). Don't necessarily need a bosh centre to get over the tackle line- in the absence of a half-decent bosh centre (and a good fast big un solves a lot of problems) there are a number of decent runners who can get us going forward. In fairness most have been looked at, but imo not really been set up to succeed; frankly....the problem imo is Farrell at 12, though he has started to run a bit more and its made a noticeable difference. I'd rather have two runners than what we've been fielding of late even so- most other sides do this.

[Oakboy]

Having waited to play any rugby since 2002/3 I am a little loathe to condemn the initial birthings of an attempt to play that actually makes sense. I'd expect them to struggle early doors given they're not used to playing, and it's a massive challenge to go for the system they've opted for on both the cardio and decision making front.

The discipline though is a big concern, and then the carrying, and maybe the set piece

I think the return of Launch or Lawes in the 2nd row helps a bit with the carrying. As indeed Underhill to a degree. Still doesn't solve Daly or the centres though.

It's seems odd that English rugby struggles with finding a bosh centre that's actually half decent.

This is where I get frustrated (not with you). Don't necessarily need a bosh centre to get over the tackle line- in the absence of a half-decent bosh centre (and a good fast big un solves a lot of problems) there are a number of decent runners who can get us going forward. In fairness most have been looked at, but imo not really been set up to succeed; frankly....the problem imo is Farrell at 12, though he has started to run a bit more and its made a noticeable difference. I'd rather have two runners than what we've been fielding of late even so- most other sides do this.

Worth trying O'Conor at 12?

[Banquo]

I think the return of Launch or Lawes in the 2nd row helps a bit with the carrying. As indeed Underhill to a degree. Still doesn't solve Daly or the centres though.

It's seems odd that English rugby struggles with finding a bosh centre that's actually half decent.

This is where I get frustrated (not with you). Don't necessarily need a bosh centre to get over the tackle line- in the absence of a half-decent bosh centre (and a good fast big un solves a lot of problems) there are a number of decent runners who can get us going forward. In fairness most have been looked at, but imo not really been set up to succeed; frankly....the problem imo is Farrell at 12, though he has started to run a bit more and its made a noticeable difference. I'd rather have two runners than what we've been fielding of late even so- most other sides do this.

Worth trying O'Conor at 12?

yep, from what I've seen.

[Scrumhead]

Agreed. Not really English but needs must ...

Does anyone know how Lozowski’s doing in France/or even what position he’s playing in?

[Digby]

How long has POC been here? He certainly sounds English so I'm assuming it's not just the last 5-7 years?

[Banquo]

How long has POC been here? He certainly sounds English so I'm assuming it's not just the last 5-7 years?

at least 18 years. Played for Ireland and England at age group, but born in Sydney.

Interesting playing history.

[francoisfou]

Does anyone know how Lozowski’s doing in France/or even what position he’s playing in?

Been playing fly half - not every week, maybe they rotate? Also kicking goals quite successfully.

[Digby]

How long has POC been here? He certainly sounds English so I'm assuming it's not just the last 5-7 years?

at least 18 years. Played for Ireland and England at age group, but born in Sydney.

Interesting playing history.

I knew he'd done the joint rep thing at under age. But he seems fairly nailed on as justifiably English if that's what he wants

[Banquo]

How long has POC been here? He certainly sounds English so I'm assuming it's not just the last 5-7 years?

at least 18 years. Played for Ireland and England at age group, but born in Sydney.

Interesting playing history.

I knew he'd done the joint rep thing at under age. But he seems fairly nailed on as justifiably English if that's what he wants

Yes indeed. I meant he was a full back at Wasps and played at Ealing for a season. There's a few breaking through from ex-lower leagues at the moment interestingly- POC, James and Freeman at Saints come to mind.

[Peej]

Does anyone know how Lozowski’s doing in France/or even what position he’s playing in?

Been playing fly half - not every week, maybe they rotate? Also kicking goals quite successfully.

He was named as the Top 14's worst signing this past week by the - albeit shockingly unreliable - Ruck

[Mellsblue]

at least 18 years. Played for Ireland and England at age group, but born in Sydney.

Interesting playing history.

I knew he'd done the joint rep thing at under age. But he seems fairly nailed on as justifiably English if that's what he wants

Yes indeed. I meant he was a full back at Wasps and played at Ealing for a season. There's a few breaking through from ex-lower leagues at the moment interestingly- POC, James and Freeman at Saints come to mind.

Cough, Goldington Rd Finishing School*, cough.

*where he converted to centre.

[Banquo]

I knew he'd done the joint rep thing at under age. But he seems fairly nailed on as justifiably English if that's what he wants

Yes indeed. I meant he was a full back at Wasps and played at Ealing for a season. There's a few breaking through from ex-lower leagues at the moment interestingly- POC, James and Freeman at Saints come to mind.

Cough, Goldington Rd Finishing School*, cough.

*where he converted to centre.

[Digby]

I heard he was converted by one Tim Claypole in Ealing

[Freddo]

The decision that worries me most is the consistent removal of our most creative back when we need to play catch up.

When Ford and Farrell play together I'd like to see stats to show if Farrell has ever been replaced and Ford left on or if it's always the other way around?

[Scrumhead]

Does anyone know how Lozowski’s doing in France/or even what position he’s playing in?

Been playing fly half - not every week, maybe they rotate? Also kicking goals quite successfully.

He was named as the Top 14's worst signing this past week by the - albeit shockingly unreliable - Ruck

Worse than Ibitoye?