RugbyRebels

I wouldn't mind seeing Lawes replace Isiekwe, but I'd sort of looked forward to England exploring the backrow options in the 6 nations with those two out. Curry is obviously great, but he's looked like he needs a bit of a rest (to me) for quite a while now.

No Fin Smith.

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:32 pmNo Fin Smith.

It must be the end.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:34 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:32 pmNo Fin Smith.

It must be the end.

I thought I saw the light Mells, I really did. With Faz under pressure and old Hitch, well hitching, I sensed the Finster was close to being handed that shirt.....

So wrong.

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:38 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:34 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:32 pmNo Fin Smith.

It must be the end.

I thought I saw the light Mells, I really did. With Faz under pressure and old Hitch, well hitching, I sensed the Finster was close to being handed that shirt.....

So wrong.

There’s a sense of Finnalty to it.

3 Jacks, 3 Ollies, 2 Bens.

justice4freeman

manu's goose looks cooked

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:48 pm 3 Jacks, 3 Ollies, 2 Bens.

Surely 2 Henrys trumps 2 Bens.

More talk circulating that J Willis, among others, won't be available post WC due to the RFU's overseas players ruling.

Though others disagree, this still seems madness to me.

I mean if he chooses to make himself ineligible by staying in Toulouse then sure, yeah.

Yeah, if he stays in France, that's fair enough.

Selecting ex Wasps/Worcester players from the Top14 was only ever one season thing.

When England desperately need cohesion and more time on the training pitch, JWillis having to jet off to Toulouse on Thursday to play in the T14 should answer why that's happening.

Puja

Trouble is that Willis can't easily return to UK Prem due to budget cuts:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... d-Cup.html

This season, sure. Clubs were up to the cap.

Next season with recruitment still ongoing, I'm sure a club would find the money for an offer that's not a piss take for a player like him. It won't be what he could be on in France, but it would be enough to live on when topped up with Eng appearance fees.

Let's hope so, and also that more Prem clubs don't go bust, thus further restricting opportunities.

stepsider wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:42 pm Trouble is that Willis can't easily return to UK Prem due to budget cuts:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... d-Cup.html

Oh no! Not Harry Glynn and Wesley Douglas! Also the Mail showing their usual high quality of reporting in missing that TWillis is already due to come back to England for next season.

Doesn't seem like much of a story to me. Sounds like Willis said to his agent, "I'm enjoying it in France, can you sound out the RFU to see whether I can continue getting that sweet EPS money and keep getting the Toulouse money and lifestyle?" and the RFU have come back and said, "No, normal rules apply from next year."

If they'd said yes, that'd be another player lost to the Prem, but hopefully he'll value his England career + England money over Toulouse and sign with an English club. There's no way someone won't make room for him given a fresh salary cap slate next season.

Puja

stupid use of 'stranded' in the case of Ribbans, LCD, Simmonds, Marchant....all conscious choices. Some of the Wasps/Wuss guys I have sympathy for, but they have time to find an English club, as Tom Willis has done. I can't believe someone won't offer big to Jack.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:07 pm stupid use of 'stranded' in the case of Ribbans, LCD, Simmonds, Marchant....all conscious choices. Some of the Wasps/Wuss guys I have sympathy for, but they have time to find an English club, as Tom Willis has done. I can't believe someone won't offer big to Jack.

Sure, there's a distinction here between those who've departed 'voluntarily' to France and ex-Wuss/Wasps players.

Though as I said earlier, any more Prem club failures and job-finding gets tougher. If so, will the RFU relax its rules then?

stepsider wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:29 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:07 pm stupid use of 'stranded' in the case of Ribbans, LCD, Simmonds, Marchant....all conscious choices. Some of the Wasps/Wuss guys I have sympathy for, but they have time to find an English club, as Tom Willis has done. I can't believe someone won't offer big to Jack.

Sure, there's a distinction here between those who've departed 'voluntarily' to France and ex-Wuss/Wasps players.

Though as I said earlier, any more Prem club failures and job-finding gets tougher. If so, will the RFU relax its rules then?

Trouble is, they relax their rules and you'd see a big stream of EPS departures to France, precisely because the clubs couldn't afford to pay them what they could get in France, and they'd get their England money as well. So you'd end up with a denuded and less appealing prem.

stepsider wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:29 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:07 pm stupid use of 'stranded' in the case of Ribbans, LCD, Simmonds, Marchant....all conscious choices. Some of the Wasps/Wuss guys I have sympathy for, but they have time to find an English club, as Tom Willis has done. I can't believe someone won't offer big to Jack.

Sure, there's a distinction here between those who've departed 'voluntarily' to France and ex-Wuss/Wasps players.

Though as I said earlier, any more Prem club failures and job-finding gets tougher. If so, will the RFU relax its rules then?

Let's throw ourselves off that bridge when we get there, shall we? If more clubs go bust, then there's likely to need to be a wholesale rearrangement of how club rugby in the UK is done, probably involving the RFU stepping in, taking it over, and offering central contracts, so there'll be a massive paradigm shift anyway.

Puja

Bearing in mind the Prem clubs' debt mountains at a time of sharply rising interest rates while economic recession is looming, and maybe a restructure now wouldn't be a bad idea. But that's a whole new topic.

in the meantime - and admittedly it's an arbitrary timeframe - I'd like to see the RFU extend the exemption for another year for players whose employers have gone to the wall.

stepsider wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:23 pm Bearing in mind the Prem clubs' debt mountains at a time of sharply rising interest rates while economic recession is looming, and maybe a restructure now wouldn't be a bad idea. But that's a whole new topic.

in the meantime - and admittedly it's an arbitrary timeframe - I'd like to see the RFU extend the exemption for another year for players whose employers have gone to the wall.

That's not unreasonable, though other players who are abroad may disagree and start getting angsty- your start point seemed to be that the RFU's overseas player ruling itself was madness.....so it was just the specifics of Jack Willis's situation that you objected to?

My 'madness' comment specifically referred to ex-Wuss/Wasps players. Though I'm not a fan of the overall RFU ruling, though I'm very aware that it's impossible to keep everyone happy.

stepsider wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:34 pm My 'madness' comment specifically referred to ex-Wuss/Wasps players. Though I'm not a fan of the overall RFU ruling, though I'm very aware that it's impossible to keep everyone happy.

Thanks for clarifying

stepsider wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:23 pm Bearing in mind the Prem clubs' debt mountains at a time of sharply rising interest rates while economic recession is looming, and maybe a restructure now wouldn't be a bad idea. But that's a whole new topic.

in the meantime - and admittedly it's an arbitrary timeframe - I'd like to see the RFU extend the exemption for another year for players whose employers have gone to the wall.

Agreed on the restructure, although not sure the current management of the RFU should be allowed to make any decisions for anyone.

I don't see it as a massive problem that needs a solution. The only one of the England squad in France because of Wasps/Wuss demise is JWillis and, if he wants to come back to England, someone will make room for him. He's too good a player. Extending the exemption only really gives him the opportunity to have his cake and eat it for another season, while depriving the recovering Prem of the star power of one of England's best players.

Puja