RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote:Are we all ready for this?

6. Shields
7. Rhodes
8. Hughes - Billy breaks his arm again

9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Brown
12. Teo
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Nowell - Daly gets injured and EJ is too stubborn to move me to the back.

I think this should be classified as hate speech.

“I go and watch three club games a week and being at the game, some of the quality of his [George Ford’s] play is absolutely outstanding,” said Jones, who also attended Leicester’s defeat by Wasps last weekend. “But, it’s like he’s an invisible man. Whereas one other player throws one pass and he’s Superman. [George] has got back to being what he’s good at and that’s taking the ball square and flat, attacking the line, looking for opportunities.”

While not including Cipriani at all is bonkers, and especially putting Fazlet in front of him, Eddie's got a point here. Cipriani's made two glorious try-scoring passes in two games, but people tend to focus on the one moment of magic and ignore the rest of his game management and play. It's like in South Africa - England's attack was a lot more disjointed with Cipriani than Ford, but he was talked up as the game-winner and a shining light because of one try that he created amidst a generally dour game.

Although I'll reemphasise that that argument works for why Ford's ahead of him, but doesn't remotely explain Farrell's supremacy or why Cipriani's not needed at all.

Puja

Cips' phase to phase play is generally superb. But Eddie is right in as much as he needs to be number one, since he needs to be calling the running lines he wants them on. All those no look passes require people on the right lines, devastating when it works, but not so good when people aren't on the right wavelength.

I think any supposed flaws in Cipriani's game could have been ironed out easily had he been ever-present as he should have been. Conversely, the three undroppables, for all their constant presence, have got steadily worse. There's only one bloke to blame for that.

Puja wrote:

“I go and watch three club games a week and being at the game, some of the quality of his [George Ford’s] play is absolutely outstanding,” said Jones, who also attended Leicester’s defeat by Wasps last weekend. “But, it’s like he’s an invisible man. Whereas one other player throws one pass and he’s Superman. [George] has got back to being what he’s good at and that’s taking the ball square and flat, attacking the line, looking for opportunities.”

While not including Cipriani at all is bonkers, and especially putting Fazlet in front of him, Eddie's got a point here. Cipriani's made two glorious try-scoring passes in two games, but people tend to focus on the one moment of magic and ignore the rest of his game management and play. It's like in South Africa - England's attack was a lot more disjointed with Cipriani than Ford, but he was talked up as the game-winner and a shining light because of one try that he created amidst a generally dour game.

Although I'll reemphasise that that argument works for why Ford's ahead of him, but doesn't remotely explain Farrell's supremacy or why Cipriani's not needed at all.

Puja

It makes as much sense as dropping Cipriani on form whilst selecting Ashton, or noting he (Eddie) watches so many matches live as you miss much on TV but it's okay for the attack and defence coach not to base themselves in England relying instead solely on TV

Yeah. It did seem a bit late/pointless to finally reintroduce him at this stage, but it seemed once we’d done it (been involved in various training camps for maybe a year now?) you may as well make use of him.

I’m leaning more and more towards the idea Jones will pass on players that might threaten the spots of his favourites. It seems utterly ridiculous but each squad seems to make slightly less sense than the last.

Digby wrote: he (Eddie) watches so many matches live as you miss much on TV but it's okay for the attack and defence coach not to base themselves in England relying instead solely on TV

I noticed the...ermmm.....inconsistency in this, too. You hope he has a master plan but I think he’s floundering.

Also, and I understand the logic of going to big games with the big players - but would watching the non-televised games not sometimes be a better option?

Mikey Brown wrote:Are we all ready for this?

6. Shields
7. Rhodes
8. Hughes - Billy breaks his arm again

9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. Brown
12. Teo
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Nowell - Daly gets injured and EJ is too stubborn to move me to the back.

Thank you, you've convinced me to go back to the pub and sack off the afternoon.

Peej wrote:Also, and I understand the logic of going to big games with the big players - but would watching the non-televised games not sometimes be a better option?

They should be doing both. Also if using video they flat out should not be relying on TV coverage

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote: he (Eddie) watches so many matches live as you miss much on TV but it's okay for the attack and defence coach not to base themselves in England relying instead solely on TV

I noticed the...ermmm.....inconsistency in this, too. You hope he has a master plan but I think he’s floundering.

Eddie means Eddie

Is it just me, or is there a lot of rotation in the early rounds of the Prem this year? Not complaining, it's just unusual amd confusing to see players being rested and looked at for the longer-term.

All aside from Mako and Cole, or course, who are immune to any attempts at rotation.

Puja

Puja wrote:Is it just me, or is there a lot of rotation in the early rounds of the Prem this year? Not complaining, it's just unusual amd confusing to see players being rested and looked at for the longer-term.

All aside from Mako and Cole, or course, who are immune to any attempts at rotation.

Puja

I would hazard a guess that the introduction of some actual facts (see head injuries) has inspired coaches to actually do the right thing just a little bit - especially combined with a few clubs having an injury crisis at some point last year to drive the point home; added to most clubs having a larger squad this year (by necessity with the new, improvedexpanded A-league).
I don't see Sale doing much in the way of rotation though...

Didn't know where to put this but seeing how England players are performing, I was wondering if we've really found the structure to get the best out of them...When you look at the forwards we have...

This season, Marler has become a bit more mobile again: his carrying is almost back to where it was when he broke through. George and LCD are very mobile, as is Taylor. Itoje, Lawes, Launch and Isiekwe are all very mobile locks. TCurry is definitely able to move around the pitch. Simmonds and Mercer both eat up the ground.

And then, in the backs, we've got Ford there, with Joseph and Marchant as great outside breaking 13s. I feel like we could be well suited to a more expansive gameplan. For once we have forwards who have the physical ability to support them around the pitch.

Can you imagine the explosive power of:

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Launch
Mercer, TCurry
Billy
Robson, Ford
May, Eastmond/Devoto/Slade, Joseph, Watson
Daly

Marler, Taylor, Williams, Lawes, Simmonds, Care, Cipriani, Nowell/Cokaganisa

Wow.

Whatevs. S Jones wants Attwood, Slater, Te’o and Tuilagi in the team. Big is best blah blah blah.

Stom wrote:Didn't know where to put this but seeing how England players are performing, I was wondering if we've really found the structure to get the best out of them...When you look at the forwards we have...

This season, Marler has become a bit more mobile again: his carrying is almost back to where it was when he broke through. George and LCD are very mobile, as is Taylor. Itoje, Lawes, Launch and Isiekwe are all very mobile locks. TCurry is definitely able to move around the pitch. Simmonds and Mercer both eat up the ground.

And then, in the backs, we've got Ford there, with Joseph and Marchant as great outside breaking 13s. I feel like we could be well suited to a more expansive gameplan. For once we have forwards who have the physical ability to support them around the pitch.

Can you imagine the explosive power of:

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Launch
Mercer, TCurry
Billy
Robson, Ford
May, Eastmond/Devoto/Slade, Joseph, Watson
Daly

Marler, Taylor, Williams, Lawes, Simmonds, Care, Cipriani, Nowell/Cokaganisa

Wow.

Yep. Absolutely love the idea but “The English way is set-piece, forward dominance bla bla bla”.

EJ vowed to build a game on the players available to him didn’t he? Or am I just imagining that is what a decent coach, with multiple approaches at his disposal, would do/say?

Mikey Brown wrote:

Stom wrote:Didn't know where to put this but seeing how England players are performing, I was wondering if we've really found the structure to get the best out of them...When you look at the forwards we have...

This season, Marler has become a bit more mobile again: his carrying is almost back to where it was when he broke through. George and LCD are very mobile, as is Taylor. Itoje, Lawes, Launch and Isiekwe are all very mobile locks. TCurry is definitely able to move around the pitch. Simmonds and Mercer both eat up the ground.

And then, in the backs, we've got Ford there, with Joseph and Marchant as great outside breaking 13s. I feel like we could be well suited to a more expansive gameplan. For once we have forwards who have the physical ability to support them around the pitch.

Can you imagine the explosive power of:

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Launch
Mercer, TCurry
Billy
Robson, Ford
May, Eastmond/Devoto/Slade, Joseph, Watson
Daly

Marler, Taylor, Williams, Lawes, Simmonds, Care, Cipriani, Nowell/Cokaganisa

Wow.

Yep. Absolutely love the idea but “The English way is set-piece, forward dominance bla bla bla”.

EJ vowed to build a game on the players available to him didn’t he? Or am I just imagining that is what a decent coach, with multiple approaches at his disposal, would do/say?

Tbf, when he started a lot of these options weren't available or were playing shunt. But his failure to adapt as the playing pool has changed is poor.

Stom wrote:Didn't know where to put this but seeing how England players are performing, I was wondering if we've really found the structure to get the best out of them...When you look at the forwards we have...

This season, Marler has become a bit more mobile again: his carrying is almost back to where it was when he broke through. George and LCD are very mobile, as is Taylor. Itoje, Lawes, Launch and Isiekwe are all very mobile locks. TCurry is definitely able to move around the pitch. Simmonds and Mercer both eat up the ground.

And then, in the backs, we've got Ford there, with Joseph and Marchant as great outside breaking 13s. I feel like we could be well suited to a more expansive gameplan. For once we have forwards who have the physical ability to support them around the pitch.

Can you imagine the explosive power of:

Mako, George, Sinckler
Itoje, Launch
Mercer, TCurry
Billy
Robson, Ford
May, Eastmond/Devoto/Slade, Joseph, Watson
Daly

Marler, Taylor, Williams, Lawes, Simmonds, Care, Cipriani, Nowell/Cokaganisa

Wow.

Well, 7 of that pack you’ve got there started the second test against SAfrica and got a bit bullied.

Ben Moon called up for Marler.

FFS. What happened to him?

Mikey Brown wrote:FFS. What happened to him?

Says personal reasons

Tigersman wrote:Ben Moon called up for Marler.

That's... interesting to say the least. If we were going on form, it's VRR, if we're going on experience in camp and precedence, it's Hepburn. Not entirely sure on the value of bringing Moon in.

Puja

Moon is a good player, but does seem odd to overlook Hepburn. Rapava-Ruskin is injured, and seems to miss way more games than he actually plays tbh.

I reckon moon would be one of those players who is good to have to train against, won't be in the squad but will be good to for the TH to train against.