RugbyRebels

canta_brian wrote:

rowan wrote:Trans-Syrian Qatar-Turkey gas pipeline designed to head off the Russian supply to Europe rejected by Syria.

There is a link between the American-led war on Syria and the decision of Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states to sanction Qatar. This has to do with who will control the largest natural gas reserves in the world and dominate the world gas market. For the past century the world has been at war over oil, but with advances in natural gas development and transportation technologies, we are now witnessing the age of wars over natural gas. Naturally this, too, has been led by the US, and began in earnest during the Obama presidency, which continuously rained bombs on 7 different Middle Eastern countries. Syria became the primary target after rejecting Qatar's proposed gas pipeline through Syria to Turkey and the European gas market (thereby undercutting Russia, a long-time ally of Damascus ever since the CIA had attempted to stage a coup there shortly after WWII). As fate would have it, the world's largest gas field straddles the territorial waters between Qatar and Iran. In 2011 the governments of Syria, Iraq and Iran signed a separate agreement for a gas pipeline from Iran to the Mediterranean via Syria and Lebanon. That project has been on hold ever since the protracted, US-led proxy war on Syria began 7 years ago. Unsurprisingly the 'mysterious' ISIS joined the fray and immediately occupied Aleppo, where the pipeline was being planned. Qatar was one of the major financiers of the war on Assad, contributing $3 billion in 2011 alone, while Saudi Arabia has reportedly invested more than $100 billion in building terrorist networks right across the region. Meanwhile, NATO special forces and the CIA began training opposition terrorists, comprising mercenaries and the Saudi-backed Wahhabists, to drive our Assad, install a Saudi-controlled puppet regime in Damascus and balkanize a destroyed Syria in order to control gas flows through the region. But when Sheikh Hamad abdicated in 2013 his son Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani acknowledged Qatar's pipe dream had been destroyed by Russian intervention and quietly began negotiations with Tehran. Indeed, last year they reached a compromise and began talks on the construction of a Qatar-Iranian pipeline to Turkey and Europe. To compound the issue, Qatar is actually home to the Pentagon's most important military base in the entire Middle East. Thus Qatar has been denounced, demonized and accused of supporting terrorism, as has Iran - naturally.

Try reading that again and consider that Russia is the country with its troops on the ground in Syria. Honestly, put your automatic bias aside for one day.

rowan wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

rowan wrote:Trans-Syrian Qatar-Turkey gas pipeline designed to head off the Russian supply to Europe rejected by Syria.

There is a link between the American-led war on Syria and the decision of Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states to sanction Qatar. This has to do with who will control the largest natural gas reserves in the world and dominate the world gas market. For the past century the world has been at war over oil, but with advances in natural gas development and transportation technologies, we are now witnessing the age of wars over natural gas. Naturally this, too, has been led by the US, and began in earnest during the Obama presidency, which continuously rained bombs on 7 different Middle Eastern countries. Syria became the primary target after rejecting Qatar's proposed gas pipeline through Syria to Turkey and the European gas market (thereby undercutting Russia, a long-time ally of Damascus ever since the CIA had attempted to stage a coup there shortly after WWII). As fate would have it, the world's largest gas field straddles the territorial waters between Qatar and Iran. In 2011 the governments of Syria, Iraq and Iran signed a separate agreement for a gas pipeline from Iran to the Mediterranean via Syria and Lebanon. That project has been on hold ever since the protracted, US-led proxy war on Syria began 7 years ago. Unsurprisingly the 'mysterious' ISIS joined the fray and immediately occupied Aleppo, where the pipeline was being planned. Qatar was one of the major financiers of the war on Assad, contributing $3 billion in 2011 alone, while Saudi Arabia has reportedly invested more than $100 billion in building terrorist networks right across the region. Meanwhile, NATO special forces and the CIA began training opposition terrorists, comprising mercenaries and the Saudi-backed Wahhabists, to drive our Assad, install a Saudi-controlled puppet regime in Damascus and balkanize a destroyed Syria in order to control gas flows through the region. But when Sheikh Hamad abdicated in 2013 his son Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani acknowledged Qatar's pipe dream had been destroyed by Russian intervention and quietly began negotiations with Tehran. Indeed, last year they reached a compromise and began talks on the construction of a Qatar-Iranian pipeline to Turkey and Europe. To compound the issue, Qatar is actually home to the Pentagon's most important military base in the entire Middle East. Thus Qatar has been denounced, demonized and accused of supporting terrorism, as has Iran - naturally.

Try reading that again and consider that Russia is the country with its troops on the ground in Syria. Honestly, put your automatic bias aside for one day.

The US and Turkey have troops on the ground and freely admit it. I think what you mean is that Russia is the country with its troops on the ground legally.

rowan wrote:Regardless of their interests, Russia's actions in standing up for its ally against the world's most powerful and murderous super power (and its cronies) was immensely courageous and admirable, and came at a significant cost in terms of Russian lives. The US, whose casualties are inevitably in the fractions compared to its victims,' due to overwhelming military technology, was there illegally in a bid to orchestrate regime change against its latest Hitler-of-the-month. They will never run out of 'Hitler's-of-the-month' either. Just like they'll never run out of terrorists to bomb so long as they keep bombing. That's the idea. War is profitable.

rowan wrote:The annexation of its former territory Crimea was carried out at the bequest of the ethnic Russian majority, who hastily organized a referendum after seeing ethnic Russians being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa - and voted overwhelmingly for a return to Russia. Crimea was actually gifted to the Ukraine in 1954 on the proviso Russia continue to be able to access its Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol. This was also under threat.

canta_brian wrote:

rowan wrote:Regardless of their interests, Russia's actions in standing up for its ally against the world's most powerful and murderous super power (and its cronies) was immensely courageous and admirable, and came at a significant cost in terms of Russian lives. The US, whose casualties are inevitably in the fractions compared to its victims,' due to overwhelming military technology, was there illegally in a bid to orchestrate regime change against its latest Hitler-of-the-month. They will never run out of 'Hitler's-of-the-month' either. Just like they'll never run out of terrorists to bomb so long as they keep bombing. That's the idea. War is profitable.

It's the West that has Hitler-of-the-month? You, only a half dozen or so posts ago, excused the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula by Russian forces by saying ethnic Russians were being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa.

Russia is in Syria for its own economic interest. Once again, your blindness to this takes away from any reasonable argument that you might make.

rowan wrote:The annexation of its former territory Crimea was carried out at the bequest of the ethnic Russian majority, who hastily organized a referendum after seeing ethnic Russians being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa - and voted overwhelmingly for a return to Russia. Crimea was actually gifted to the Ukraine in 1954 on the proviso Russia continue to be able to access its Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol. This was also under threat.

rowan wrote:If you guys don't know that Russia lost a significant number of lives in courageously defending Syria from the world's most powerful and violent Super Power (and its cronies and terrorist proxies), or that ethnic Russians were burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa in the aftermath of the US-orchestrated coup in the Ukraine, then there's not much I can do you you, sorry. You really need to stop reading mainstream corporate propaganda and brush up on your politics and history.

belgarion wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

rowan wrote:Regardless of their interests, Russia's actions in standing up for its ally against the world's most powerful and murderous super power (and its cronies) was immensely courageous and admirable, and came at a significant cost in terms of Russian lives. The US, whose casualties are inevitably in the fractions compared to its victims,' due to overwhelming military technology, was there illegally in a bid to orchestrate regime change against its latest Hitler-of-the-month. They will never run out of 'Hitler's-of-the-month' either. Just like they'll never run out of terrorists to bomb so long as they keep bombing. That's the idea. War is profitable.

It's the West that has Hitler-of-the-month? You, only a half dozen or so posts ago, excused the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula by Russian forces by saying ethnic Russians were being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa.

Russia is in Syria for its own economic interest. Once again, your blindness to this takes away from any reasonable argument that you might make.

rowan wrote:The annexation of its former territory Crimea was carried out at the bequest of the ethnic Russian majority, who hastily organized a referendum after seeing ethnic Russians being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa - and voted overwhelmingly for a return to Russia. Crimea was actually gifted to the Ukraine in 1954 on the proviso Russia continue to be able to access its Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol. This was also under threat.

Which, last time I saw a map of the region, isn't even in The Crimea

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:

canta_brian wrote:
It's the West that has Hitler-of-the-month? You, only a half dozen or so posts ago, excused the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula by Russian forces by saying ethnic Russians were being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa.

Russia is in Syria for its own economic interest. Once again, your blindness to this takes away from any reasonable argument that you might make.

Which, last time I saw a map of the region, isn't even in The Crimea

rowan wrote:You were talking about Odessa?

Oooookay. That made no sense whatsoever . . .

rowan wrote:If you guys don't know that Russia lost a significant number of lives in courageously defending Syria from the world's most powerful and violent Super Power (and its cronies and terrorist proxies), or that ethnic Russians were burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa in the aftermath of the US-orchestrated coup in the Ukraine, then there's not much I can do you you, sorry. You really need to stop reading mainstream corporate propaganda and brush up on your politics and history.

Stones of granite wrote:

rowan wrote:The annexation of its former territory Crimea was carried out at the bequest of the ethnic Russian majority, who hastily organized a referendum after seeing ethnic Russians being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa - and voted overwhelmingly for a return to Russia. Crimea was actually gifted to the Ukraine in 1954 on the proviso Russia continue to be able to access its Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol. This was also under threat.

Assad? Not a fraction as brutal as America, Britain, Saudi Arabia and Israel, et al.

Yes, Russia is there, at the bequest of the recognized government and therefore legally, to defend an ally from foreign invasion and terrorist proxies, and thereby protect their gas industry. Well done.

America is there, uninvited and therefore illegally, to overthrow the recognized government and install a puppet regime that will allow them to control the flow of gas from the Gulf to Europe - via Syria.

Nice re-writing of history there Rowan. Good to see that you're on the ball this morning.
The ethnic Russians in Crimea were as surprised as anyone to see Russian soldiers taking control of strategic points including official buildings and access to Ukrainian military installations. There was no bequest, whatever that is supposed to mean. (I suppose you are conflating "request" and "behest").
There was absolutely no threat to the continues Russian access to it's Sevastopol port. That's just another made up lie.
Referendum? Don't make me laugh. A referendum at the end of an AK74....

Here's the real reason for the invasion and annexation of Crimea.

https://www.platts.com/news-feature/201 ... -sea-hopes

The development of Ukraine's large offshore gas reserves was thrown into limbo this week after the Crimea peninsula returned to Moscow's rule, upending Ukrainian hopes of becoming a gas exporter anytime soon.

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

rowan wrote:The annexation of its former territory Crimea was carried out at the bequest of the ethnic Russian majority, who hastily organized a referendum after seeing ethnic Russians being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa - and voted overwhelmingly for a return to Russia. Crimea was actually gifted to the Ukraine in 1954 on the proviso Russia continue to be able to access its Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol. This was also under threat.

Assad? Not a fraction as brutal as America, Britain, Saudi Arabia and Israel, et al.

Yes, Russia is there, at the bequest of the recognized government and therefore legally, to defend an ally from foreign invasion and terrorist proxies, and thereby protect their gas industry. Well done.

America is there, uninvited and therefore illegally, to overthrow the recognized government and install a puppet regime that will allow them to control the flow of gas from the Gulf to Europe - via Syria.

Nice re-writing of history there Rowan. Good to see that you're on the ball this morning.
The ethnic Russians in Crimea were as surprised as anyone to see Russian soldiers taking control of strategic points including official buildings and access to Ukrainian military installations. There was no bequest, whatever that is supposed to mean. (I suppose you are conflating "request" and "behest").
There was absolutely no threat to the continues Russian access to it's Sevastopol port. That's just another made up lie.
Referendum? Don't make me laugh. A referendum at the end of an AK74....

Here's the real reason for the invasion and annexation of Crimea.

https://www.platts.com/news-feature/201 ... -sea-hopes

The development of Ukraine's large offshore gas reserves was thrown into limbo this week after the Crimea peninsula returned to Moscow's rule, upending Ukrainian hopes of becoming a gas exporter anytime soon.

Hmmmm. There were reports that Ukraine had actually been caught stealing natural gas from the Gazprom pipeline and selling it on the free market. Russia found out and presented them with a bill that they refused to pay.
Since the Russians annexed the Crimea the US has been shipping vast supplies of natural gas to the Ukraine.

I don't want to sound like I'm continually banging the same drum but claiming Russia are protecting their 'ailing gas industry' is rather misleading. They are protecting their interests..... but they are protecting them from a very pernicious, imperialist foreign policy coming directly from the US energy lobby.
Those feckers make the NRA look like docile pussycats.

Sandydragon wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: Nice re-writing of history there Rowan. Good to see that you're on the ball this morning.
The ethnic Russians in Crimea were as surprised as anyone to see Russian soldiers taking control of strategic points including official buildings and access to Ukrainian military installations. There was no bequest, whatever that is supposed to mean. (I suppose you are conflating "request" and "behest").
There was absolutely no threat to the continues Russian access to it's Sevastopol port. That's just another made up lie.
Referendum? Don't make me laugh. A referendum at the end of an AK74....

Here's the real reason for the invasion and annexation of Crimea.

https://www.platts.com/news-feature/201 ... -sea-hopes

The development of Ukraine's large offshore gas reserves was thrown into limbo this week after the Crimea peninsula returned to Moscow's rule, upending Ukrainian hopes of becoming a gas exporter anytime soon.

Hmmmm. There were reports that Ukraine had actually been caught stealing natural gas from the Gazprom pipeline and selling it on the free market. Russia found out and presented them with a bill that they refused to pay.
Since the Russians annexed the Crimea the US has been shipping vast supplies of natural gas to the Ukraine.

I don't want to sound like I'm continually banging the same drum but claiming Russia are protecting their 'ailing gas industry' is rather misleading. They are protecting their interests..... but they are protecting them from a very pernicious, imperialist foreign policy coming directly from the US energy lobby.
Those feckers make the NRA look like docile pussycats.

Defending their interests via their own imperialist foreign policy.

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

rowan wrote:The annexation of its former territory Crimea was carried out at the bequest of the ethnic Russian majority, who hastily organized a referendum after seeing ethnic Russians being burnt alive by Neo Nazis in Odessa - and voted overwhelmingly for a return to Russia. Crimea was actually gifted to the Ukraine in 1954 on the proviso Russia continue to be able to access its Black Sea naval base at Sevastopol. This was also under threat.

Assad? Not a fraction as brutal as America, Britain, Saudi Arabia and Israel, et al.

Yes, Russia is there, at the bequest of the recognized government and therefore legally, to defend an ally from foreign invasion and terrorist proxies, and thereby protect their gas industry. Well done.

America is there, uninvited and therefore illegally, to overthrow the recognized government and install a puppet regime that will allow them to control the flow of gas from the Gulf to Europe - via Syria.

Nice re-writing of history there Rowan. Good to see that you're on the ball this morning.
The ethnic Russians in Crimea were as surprised as anyone to see Russian soldiers taking control of strategic points including official buildings and access to Ukrainian military installations. There was no bequest, whatever that is supposed to mean. (I suppose you are conflating "request" and "behest").
There was absolutely no threat to the continues Russian access to it's Sevastopol port. That's just another made up lie.
Referendum? Don't make me laugh. A referendum at the end of an AK74....

Here's the real reason for the invasion and annexation of Crimea.

https://www.platts.com/news-feature/201 ... -sea-hopes

The development of Ukraine's large offshore gas reserves was thrown into limbo this week after the Crimea peninsula returned to Moscow's rule, upending Ukrainian hopes of becoming a gas exporter anytime soon.

Hmmmm. There were reports that Ukraine had actually been caught stealing natural gas from the Gazprom pipeline and selling it on the free market. Russia found out and presented them with a bill that they refused to pay.
Since the Russians annexed the Crimea the US has been shipping vast supplies of natural gas to the Ukraine.

I

Sandydragon wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: Here's the real reason for the invasion and annexation of Crimea.
https://www.platts.com/news-feature/201 ... -sea-hopes
The development of Ukraine's large offshore gas reserves was thrown into limbo this week after the Crimea peninsula returned to Moscow's rule, upending Ukrainian hopes of becoming a gas exporter anytime soon.

Hmmmm. There were reports that Ukraine had actually been caught stealing natural gas from the Gazprom pipeline and selling it on the free market. Russia found out and presented them with a bill that they refused to pay.
Since the Russians annexed the Crimea the US has been shipping vast supplies of natural gas to the Ukraine.

I don't want to sound like I'm continually banging the same drum but claiming Russia are protecting their 'ailing gas industry' is rather misleading. They are protecting their interests..... but they are protecting them from a very pernicious, imperialist foreign policy coming directly from the US energy lobby.
Those feckers make the NRA look like docile pussycats.

Defending their interests via their own imperialist foreign policy.

Stones of granite wrote: which part of Crimea did this pipeline run through?

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: which part of Crimea did this pipeline run through?

C'mon, Fella. You know this story has been running for years.
https://www.platts.com/latest-news/natu ... s-26902984

At least the Russkis are attempting arbitration. The US are just planning to lob a few smart bombs delivered by the Playstation generation from 1,000 miles away and call it necessary regime change.

Stones of granite wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: which part of Crimea did this pipeline run through?

C'mon, Fella. You know this story has been running for years.
https://www.platts.com/latest-news/natu ... s-26902984

At least the Russkis are attempting arbitration. The US are just planning to lob a few smart bombs delivered by the Playstation generation from 1,000 miles away and call it necessary regime change.

Right, so the pipeline ran nowhere near Crimea. The normal process for solving a payment dispute is arbitration, not annexation of an unrelated part of the country.

It’s all just smokescreen, which you are adding too. The Russian’s annexed Crimea so that could stake claim to hydrocarbon reserves in the northern Black Sea, with the added benefits that they deny them to Ukraine and save the peanuts they paid for leasing ports and airfields in Crimea.