Scots Abroad VIII (or let's spot the new messiah)

[General Zod]

Here's another one of our boys in action abroad.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-39453543

Fud.

[switchskier]

Nairn apparently not staying on with quins next season, perhaps not going to make the grade. Wonder if he'll end up with one of the pro-teams. In many ways her fit the Lamont role quite well.

[Big D]

Signed for Glasgow apparently.

He's very raw.

[Jps]

Seems to me this is very ungood news: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-uni ... -1-4412855

Not only are they seemingly thinking they'll have to drop a division cause they won't be able to have decent players, but they're likely to field more EQP

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Seems to me this is very ungood news: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-uni ... -1-4412855

Not only are they seemingly thinking they'll have to drop a division cause they won't be able to have decent players, but they're likely to field more EQP

From whose POV? The future of LS? This is the correct move for them. It takes a brave leader to make a decision like that. D2 rugby just isn't self-sustainable in England unfortunately.

For Scotland? Yes, sure it's a step back.

[Jps]

Seems to me this is very ungood news: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-uni ... -1-4412855

Not only are they seemingly thinking they'll have to drop a division cause they won't be able to have decent players, but they're likely to field more EQP

From whose POV? The future of LS? This is the correct move for them. It takes a brave leader to make a decision like that. D2 rugby just isn't self-sustainable in England unfortunately.

For Scotland? Yes, sure it's a step back.

Yes from a scottish rugby perspective it's a step back. I understand LS wanting to be shy of the same sorts of problems that led them to implode the first time.

It's really shocking that English rugby has such a huge gap between Prem & Championship. It seems if antying the RFU would try to close that gap. Look at New Zealand where All Black turn out for super rugby and then all the way down to club rugby and there's no huge disparity between Cup and provincial rugby, and certainly no doomsday if you get relegated one league like happens to prem teams.

Or hell even France where being dropped to Pro D2 isn't any sort of shame, and they all have good looking, nice stadiums with plenty of community support. More mobility would be better than less is my general thinking.

Shame really

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Seems to me this is very ungood news: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-uni ... -1-4412855

Not only are they seemingly thinking they'll have to drop a division cause they won't be able to have decent players, but they're likely to field more EQP

From whose POV? The future of LS? This is the correct move for them. It takes a brave leader to make a decision like that. D2 rugby just isn't self-sustainable in England unfortunately.

For Scotland? Yes, sure it's a step back.

Yes from a scottish rugby perspective it's a step back. I understand LS wanting to be shy of the same sorts of problems that led them to implode the first time.

It's really shocking that English rugby has such a huge gap between Prem & Championship. It seems if antying the RFU would try to close that gap. Look at New Zealand where All Black turn out for super rugby and then all the way down to club rugby and there's no huge disparity between Cup and provincial rugby, and certainly no doomsday if you get relegated one league like happens to prem teams.

Or hell even France where being dropped to Pro D2 isn't any sort of shame, and they all have good looking, nice stadiums with plenty of community support. More mobility would be better than less is my general thinking.

Shame really

The UK has football to contend with. It is absolutely huge.

[Jps]

Shit they play football in France too and England has over a million registered rugby players. There's no reason why there are basically only 13 decent pro teams and they can get to 20 that are really quality sides.

[Lizard]

It's really shocking that English rugby has such a huge gap between Prem & Championship. It seems if antying the RFU would try to close that gap. Look at New Zealand where All Black turn out for super rugby and then all the way down to club rugby and there's no huge disparity between Cup and provincial rugby, and certainly no doomsday if you get relegated one league like happens to prem teams.

I’m not sure that NZ domestic rugby is quite the rosy picture you’ve painted. It does have the significant advantage of the NZRU having a great deal of central control. Super Rugby is obviously the top tier and at its best (i.e. matches between NZ sides this season) is probably the nearest thing on the planet to test match level rugby. Current All Blacks are generally available to play but workloads are managed especially for those who have started a lot of tests or had injury niggles. Even now (round 7 this weekend) some are not yet back on the field. Super Rugby also takes a break for the June international window.

The next level down is provincial rugby. This used to be a straightforward 3-division competition (9 Unions per div) with promotion and relegation. This has now been fucked with and has a confusing format that seems designed to make it hard for fans to understand, although every game will be on telly. Briefly, the top 14 provinces (basically the old 1st division along with the 2nd div teams capable of promotion) including all the Super Rugby bases are now ring-fenced into a two division, professional (semi-pro for some) comp, with some cross-over games between divisions and promotion/relegation. The first division is called the “Premiership” and the 2nd is the “Championship” despite the Champion actually coming from the Premiership. It’s stupid. Frankly, the gap between the “Premiership” and Super Rugby is growing and will continue to grow. Relegation from Premiership to Championship is not a big deal because the money is about the same, and you still play in the same overall confusing competition so most people don’t even know who is in which division. Provincial rugby is becoming less important as a development pathway for All Blacks. Super Rugby sides are signing more young guys straight after school, and national age group sides are also important. All Blacks do play for their provinces occasionally but generally only as a rehab step because the season overlaps almost entirely with the Rugby Championship. Attendances are generally poor, especially in the Super Rugby base cities.

The next tier is the Heartland Championship (awful, awful, patronising name) which is the rest of the old 2nd div and 3rd div provinces. These are the sort of teams that the Lions would put 100 points on and are effectively amateur. They play for two trophies in a sort of Cup/Bowl type arrangement, splitting the league into a top and bottom knock-out comp after 8 rounds. Anyone who is any good and not picked up as a pro out of school or age-group teams will very quickly be moved into a professional province. No All Blacks would ever play in this competition, except maybe as a retirement lark. This comp is televised, but I’m pretty sure not every match and not always live. There’s no promotion or relegation given the cup/bowl format. I suspect that if somehow one team became ridiculously dominant the NZRU would rejig things to get them into the Championship but this is unlikely. Good players will move away for a shot at Super Rugby anyway.

Each provincial union runs one or more senior club competitions. This is what “Club” rugby is in NZ. It is thoroughly amateur and is Saturday afternoon, park rugby. The standard in the major cities is pretty good. Provincial players will take part when available. I think it’s pretty rare for proper pros (i.e. Super Rugby players) to bother but all of them will be registered with a club somewhere. Occasionally an All Black will play as a bit of a media stunt/rehab step. There’s a magazine style telly show that covers some of this stuff but not many are interested in it. There’s probably just as much Schools rugby televised as club rugby.

[Jps]

You're absolutely right, I grossly oversimplified a situatuon that I'm not throughly familiar with, but I was just attempting to make the point that it shocks me that England can seem to support no more than 13-15 fully professional sides, and that a club with LS history and location can't amount the turnover to fund fulltime rugby.

But they're looking after themselves properly, they don't want to chance financial peril like they did in the Tiarks era.

[Lizard]

I have literally never seen a 2nd tier English club match, so can't really comment on the relative standards. From what I understand though, the only way back up the ladder from a long term stay would be to get a billionaire backer prepared to buy success, which as French clubs have shown is not as easy as you might think.

[General Zod]

Not Scottish (yet), but new Glasgow signing Callum Gibbins starting for Hurricanes just now v Waratahs.

[sharvey44]

Seems to me this is very ungood news: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-uni ... -1-4412855

Not only are they seemingly thinking they'll have to drop a division cause they won't be able to have decent players, but they're likely to field more EQP

The demise of LW has again highlighted that the single benefactor model is just not a great idea when your not an AP team, (even then its arguable). The calamity of the SRU deal/non-deal/new deal really screwed the club over this season and as it was the 3rd time an event with the SRU turned sour I think the club is now keeping them at arms length.

They wont drop down this season as there is no relegation so get a free pass. I cant see them dropping down as I think other teams in the league will also move to a more semi-pro model.

[General Zod]

Naiyavorou playing shite.

Gibbins doing his job well, particularly in the first 20 when Hurricanes blew the 'tahs away.

TJ Perenara is still irritating.

Jordi Barrett looks like he'll be a very good player.

[Lizard]

Each provincial union runs one or more senior club competitions. This is what “Club” rugby is in NZ. It is thoroughly amateur and is Saturday afternoon, park rugby. The standard in the major cities is pretty good. Provincial players will take part when available. I think it’s pretty rare for proper pros (i.e. Super Rugby players) to bother but all of them will be registered with a club somewhere. Occasionally an All Black will play as a bit of a media stunt/rehab step. There’s a magazine style telly show that covers some of this stuff but not many are interested in it. There’s probably just as much Schools rugby televised as club rugby.

Ha! Right on cue...
http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/912873 ... ng-student

[Jps]

Naiyavorou playing shite.

Gibbins doing his job well, particularly in the first 20 when Hurricanes blew the 'tahs away.

TJ Perenara is still irritating.

Jordi Barrett looks like he'll be a very good player.

Are the Barrets SQ?

[Jps]

Duncan Taylor starts at 13 for Sarries, Maitland at 11, Visser starts for Quins, Eadie at 8 for Bristol, Denton on the bench for Bath.

[General Zod]

Naiyavorou playing shite.

Gibbins doing his job well, particularly in the first 20 when Hurricanes blew the 'tahs away.

TJ Perenara is still irritating.

Jordi Barrett looks like he'll be a very good player.

Are the Barrets SQ?

Finlay Christie and Oli McKebble benching against each other for the Chiefs and Stormers at Newlands later today. Should be a good game. Both teams have won 5/5. I think the Chiefs should win - Stormers haven't really been tested yet.

[Jps]

The U18 team was named with a fair few exiles today:

5.Marshall Sykes (St Joseph's College / Northampton Saints)
19. Oliver Cattell (Beechen Cliff School / Bath Academy)
20. Drew Davison (Gosforth Academy / Newcastle Falcons)
23. Rory McMichael (Wellington College / London Irish)
24. Jack Hutchison (Sedbergh School / Newcastle Falcons)
25. Jon Searle (Brighton College / Harlequins Academy)

[General Zod]

Off topic, but Chiefs have just scored one of the best tries I have ever seen v Stormers. If you get a chance to watch the highlights, take it.

[General Zod]

Try here...

[General Zod]

Duncan Taylor MOTM for saracens v 'quins.

I really have made the most of today's sunshine.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Duncan Taylor MOTM for saracens v 'quins.

I really have made the most of today's sunshine.

It's interesting that we have 3 Scots regularly starting for the best team in Europe yet we don't pick em. I know Hamilton has retired but... Does he still have something to offer? He was very good against the Weeg and word has it he's being offered a 2 year contract with LI after this season which would take him up to the RWC...

[ARM]

Try here...

That's a peach alright.

[Jps]

He's probably not interested in leaving, but Edinburgh should make a hard run at Taylor, he's the sort of player we desperately need.