Page 190 of 232
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:45 am
by Son of Mathonwy
It's would-be fascism. Coz thus lot would be fascists if only they could stop meaningful elections.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:26 pm
by Sandydragon
morepork wrote: ↑Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:13 pm
Yes. But you might be questioned by the filth. The "centre right" does seem particularly extreme in their actions. Suella Braverman is a syphilitic boil of a public servant.
Centre right my arse.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:29 pm
by Which Tyler
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:14 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
It would be interesting to know
which doors this criminally misleading leaflet went through.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed May 03, 2023 8:17 pm
by Puja
Meanwhile our esteemed opposition continue to go out of their way to avoid having anything that anyone might accidentally misconstrue as a belief or moral:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ic-history
Utterly risible.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 10:08 am
by Son of Mathonwy
As one of those swayed by his leadership pledges this is particularly depressing (not so much for tuition fees, which I would find acceptable
if they were covered by a generous grant for poorer students, but for the general cancelling of left wing promises).
What is Starmer about? Is he just a fairly liberal bag of ambition with no interest in policy? (Of course he may be about pull a double-bluff after the election and reveal himself to be a Corbynista after all
).
One thing that amazes me is the passion his Blairite mates and supporters seem to have (at least when they're purging the party of left wing candidates). What is the passion for Tory-lite? It seems like passion for the average.
As Owen says, the lack of clear (and radical) ideas is not only a problem for campaigning, it's a problem for governing. If Labour is just going to be Tory-lite, more of the same with less corruption and if we're lucky, a little more consideration of the non-rich, very little will be achieved other than the consolidation of politics even further to the right (not coincidentally, one of Blair's main achievements). Tough economic conditions are not a reason to fear radical policies (see Labour after WW2).
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 10:34 am
by Puja
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:08 am
As one of those swayed by his leadership pledges this is particularly depressing (not so much for tuition fees, which I would find acceptable
if they were covered by a generous grant for poorer students, but for the general cancelling of left wing promises).
What is Starmer about? Is he just a fairly liberal bag of ambition with no interest in policy? (Of course he may be about pull a double-bluff after the election and reveal himself to be a Corbynista after all
).
One thing that amazes me is the passion his Blairite mates and supporters seem to have (at least when they're purging the party of left wing candidates). What is the passion for Tory-lite? It seems like passion for the average.
As Owen says, the lack of clear (and radical) ideas is not only a problem for campaigning, it's a problem for governing. If Labour is just going to be Tory-lite, more of the same with less corruption and if we're lucky, a little more consideration of the non-rich, very little will be achieved other than the consolidation of politics even further to the right (not coincidentally, one of Blair's main achievements). Tough economic conditions are not a reason to fear radical policies (see Labour after WW2).
Blair may have been centrist, but he did get a fair few left wing policies done - Sure Start, minimum wage, gay rights, economic policies that narrowed the gap between rich and poor. He was the successful implementation of the concept of, "Better to be in power and get some stuff done, than out of power with really good principles."
With Starmer, I genuinely don't know what he's going to achieve that makes it worthwhile supporting him. There appears to be no left-wing benefit to getting behind him, other than obviating the possibility of giving the Tory membership 5 years to oust Rishi and opt for Prime Minister Badenoch or Bravermann. Unless he is a Trojan horse looking to get elected and then bust out reform, of course.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 3:19 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Puja wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:34 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:08 am
As one of those swayed by his leadership pledges this is particularly depressing (not so much for tuition fees, which I would find acceptable
if they were covered by a generous grant for poorer students, but for the general cancelling of left wing promises).
What is Starmer about? Is he just a fairly liberal bag of ambition with no interest in policy? (Of course he may be about pull a double-bluff after the election and reveal himself to be a Corbynista after all
).
One thing that amazes me is the passion his Blairite mates and supporters seem to have (at least when they're purging the party of left wing candidates). What is the passion for Tory-lite? It seems like passion for the average.
As Owen says, the lack of clear (and radical) ideas is not only a problem for campaigning, it's a problem for governing. If Labour is just going to be Tory-lite, more of the same with less corruption and if we're lucky, a little more consideration of the non-rich, very little will be achieved other than the consolidation of politics even further to the right (not coincidentally, one of Blair's main achievements). Tough economic conditions are not a reason to fear radical policies (see Labour after WW2).
Blair may have been centrist, but he did get a fair few left wing policies done - Sure Start, minimum wage, gay rights, economic policies that narrowed the gap between rich and poor. He was the successful implementation of the concept of, "Better to be in power and get some stuff done, than out of power with really good principles."
With Starmer, I genuinely don't know what he's going to achieve that makes it worthwhile supporting him. There appears to be no left-wing benefit to getting behind him, other than obviating the possibility of giving the Tory membership 5 years to oust Rishi and opt for Prime Minister Badenoch or Bravermann. Unless he is a Trojan horse looking to get elected and then bust out reform, of course.
Puja
Despite my general unhappiness with the way Starmer's leadership has evolved I still think there is massive benefit from Labour winning next time. Even if a lot of that is clawing back the worst Tory excesses. Even if this is genuinely the second coming of the Third Way, for all that depresses me it would clearly be hugely beneficial to get the UK back to where it was under Labour last time. And (this is a calculated guess based on his upbringing and career) I still think Starmer is naturally to the left of Blair, so things could be marginally better than that.
TBH the main reason I voted for Starmer is that he looked like the best one (probably the only one) to lead Labour to victory. I still think that is the case. I would love to have had a better option but there wasn't one IMO.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 4:12 pm
by Puja
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 3:19 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:34 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:08 am
As one of those swayed by his leadership pledges this is particularly depressing (not so much for tuition fees, which I would find acceptable
if they were covered by a generous grant for poorer students, but for the general cancelling of left wing promises).
What is Starmer about? Is he just a fairly liberal bag of ambition with no interest in policy? (Of course he may be about pull a double-bluff after the election and reveal himself to be a Corbynista after all
).
One thing that amazes me is the passion his Blairite mates and supporters seem to have (at least when they're purging the party of left wing candidates). What is the passion for Tory-lite? It seems like passion for the average.
As Owen says, the lack of clear (and radical) ideas is not only a problem for campaigning, it's a problem for governing. If Labour is just going to be Tory-lite, more of the same with less corruption and if we're lucky, a little more consideration of the non-rich, very little will be achieved other than the consolidation of politics even further to the right (not coincidentally, one of Blair's main achievements). Tough economic conditions are not a reason to fear radical policies (see Labour after WW2).
Blair may have been centrist, but he did get a fair few left wing policies done - Sure Start, minimum wage, gay rights, economic policies that narrowed the gap between rich and poor. He was the successful implementation of the concept of, "Better to be in power and get some stuff done, than out of power with really good principles."
With Starmer, I genuinely don't know what he's going to achieve that makes it worthwhile supporting him. There appears to be no left-wing benefit to getting behind him, other than obviating the possibility of giving the Tory membership 5 years to oust Rishi and opt for Prime Minister Badenoch or Bravermann. Unless he is a Trojan horse looking to get elected and then bust out reform, of course.
Puja
Despite my general unhappiness with the way Starmer's leadership has evolved I still think there is massive benefit from Labour winning next time. Even if a lot of that is clawing back the worst Tory excesses. Even if this is genuinely the second coming of the Third Way, for all that depresses me it would clearly be hugely beneficial to get the UK back to where it was under Labour last time. And (this is a calculated guess based on his upbringing and career) I still think Starmer is naturally to the left of Blair, so things could be marginally better than that.
TBH the main reason I voted for Starmer is that he looked like the best one (probably the only one) to lead Labour to victory. I still think that is the case. I would love to have had a better option but there wasn't one IMO.
In fairness, I'm being more than a bit over the top - there is of course huge benefit to not having the current insane edition of the Tories in power and I greatly look forward to it. However, that is mostly due to the current Conservative party being utterly certifiable than it is anything to do with Labour.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 4:32 pm
by morepork
Starmer is a total fucking dry balls.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 9:48 pm
by cashead
Starmer probably will be the next PM, but it's pretty much by virtue of "not being that" *gestures in the general direction of Johnson, Truss and Sunak*
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu May 04, 2023 10:22 pm
by Puja
cashead wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 9:48 pm
Starmer probably will be the next PM, but it's pretty much by virtue of "not being that" *gestures in the general direction of Johnson, Truss and Sunak*
Ah, the Biden playbook.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 6:32 am
by Sandydragon
Local election results looking somewhat gloomy for the conservatives. If the swing to Labour is above 15 percent, will Sunak even survive?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 7:23 am
by Donny osmond
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 6:32 am
Local election results looking somewhat gloomy for the conservatives. If the swing to Labour is above 15 percent, will Sunak even survive?
Hopefully it will be, and hopefully he wont
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 7:53 am
by Sandydragon
Stand by for ‘bring back Boris’ or more tacking to the right to grab Reform votes
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 8:27 am
by Puja
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:23 am
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 6:32 am
Local election results looking somewhat gloomy for the conservatives. If the swing to Labour is above 15 percent, will Sunak even survive?
Hopefully it will be, and hopefully he wont
Really? The alternatives are so much worse and we still have to live in this country for the next year and a bit.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 8:58 am
by Sandydragon
Puja wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:27 am
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:23 am
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 6:32 am
Local election results looking somewhat gloomy for the conservatives. If the swing to Labour is above 15 percent, will Sunak even survive?
Hopefully it will be, and hopefully he wont
Really? The alternatives are so much worse and we still have to live in this country for the next year and a bit.
Puja
Braverman, Boris would be obvious candidates. Neither should be anywhere near no10.
Equally it could force an early election
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 9:03 am
by Which Tyler
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:58 amEqually it could force an early election
Certainly should, but "could" seems overly optimistic, given... shrugs in the general direction of the last decade of British politics.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 9:03 am
by Puja
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:58 am
Puja wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:27 am
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:23 am
Hopefully it will be, and hopefully he wont
Really? The alternatives are so much worse and we still have to live in this country for the next year and a bit.
Puja
Braverman, Boris would be obvious candidates. Neither should be anywhere near no10.
Equally it could force an early election
I don't see it forcing an early election. There might be public outrage at the 22nd Tory Prime Minister since the last election, but the Conservatives have shown that they don't give a used fig for public outrage, especially when the choices are, "Give up power immediately" or "Give up power at the latest possible opportunity."
Bravermann, Boris, or Badenoch. All of them make me shudder.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 12:36 pm
by Which Tyler
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/n ... ve-8415156
Tewkesbury East has gone from 2 conservatives to 2 Greens, with an increased turnout from 2019 (28.9% => 33.1%)
Increased turnout means an extra 250 ballots cast, and the tories still managed to lose over 100 votes.
In GE terms, we're one of the safest tory seats in the country (obviously, far more than just this ward, but the story seems to be being repeated all over the borough)
ETA: As far as I can see, of the seats so far declared, we've gone
Con: 10 => 1
L-D: 5 => 10
Ind: 4 => 5
Grn: 1 => 4
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 5:42 pm
by Sandydragon
Puja wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 9:03 am
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:58 am
Puja wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:27 am
Really? The alternatives are so much worse and we still have to live in this country for the next year and a bit.
Puja
Braverman, Boris would be obvious candidates. Neither should be anywhere near no10.
Equally it could force an early election
I don't see it forcing an early election. There might be public outrage at the 22nd Tory Prime Minister since the last election, but the Conservatives have shown that they don't give a used fig for public outrage, especially when the choices are, "Give up power immediately" or "Give up power at the latest possible opportunity."
Bravermann, Boris, or Badenoch. All of them make me shudder.
Puja
It’s not certain or even likely but possible if enough Tory MPs think sod it let’s end the torture. They might abstain if a vote of no confidence were to be brought. Particularly if the party descends into some kind of civil war which is very likely I’d suggest if the right make a move on Sunak.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 5:43 pm
by Sandydragon
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 12:36 pm
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/n ... ve-8415156
Tewkesbury East has gone from 2 conservatives to 2 Greens, with an increased turnout from 2019 (28.9% => 33.1%)
Increased turnout means an extra 250 ballots cast, and the tories still managed to lose over 100 votes.
In GE terms, we're one of the safest tory seats in the country (obviously, far more than just this ward, but the story seems to be being repeated all over the borough)
ETA: As far as I can see, of the seats so far declared, we've gone
Con: 10 => 1
L-D: 5 => 10
Ind: 4 => 5
Grn: 1 => 4
Mid term elections are not entirely a reliable predictor of the next GE. If they were the Lib Dem’s would be huge. But this is a battering and no mistake. It feels like the country wants the Tory’s out.
It’s a shame that the opposition seems intent on not having something to vote for.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 5:59 pm
by Sandydragon
I wonder what the odds are on a coalition government next time?
Looking at the recent results and both the liberals and greens have done well. There’s a risk here in splitting the vote but I do think the liberals will be better placed in many southern seats compared to Labour .
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 6:36 pm
by Donny osmond
Puja wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:27 am
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:23 am
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 6:32 am
Local election results looking somewhat gloomy for the conservatives. If the swing to Labour is above 15 percent, will Sunak even survive?
Hopefully it will be, and hopefully he wont
Really? The alternatives are so much worse and we still have to live in this country for the next year and a bit.
Puja
You're absolutely right of course, but I was thinking longer term about labour not just winning the next GE but winning with as big a margin as possible.
If Sunak is booted, and I doubt he will be for exactly the reason you've highlighted, anyone coming in would surely, even with the stratospheric standards of Tory fuckwittery, realise they need to appeal to voters and reign it all in a bit?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 7:36 pm
by Puja
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 6:36 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:27 am
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:23 am
Hopefully it will be, and hopefully he wont
Really? The alternatives are so much worse and we still have to live in this country for the next year and a bit.
Puja
You're absolutely right of course, but I was thinking longer term about labour not just winning the next GE but winning with as big a margin as possible.
If Sunak is booted, and I doubt he will be for exactly the reason you've highlighted, anyone coming in would surely, even with the stratospheric standards of Tory fuckwittery, realise they need to appeal to voters and reign it all in a bit?
The problem with Badenoch and Bravermann is that they're either true believers or they've tied their personal brands so tightly to being absolute fuckers that it doesn't leave much room for winding their necks in. They genuinely scare me.
Puja